Blue Moon Clone

Just brewed this recipe last Friday night. Pitched US-05 after rehydrating and it has been really slow starting. Also brewed an IPA on the same night and it took off like normal. Very active and blowing out of the blowoff tube.

The Blue clone is barely chugging along after 3 days. Very small Krausen, maybe 1/4 inch, and it has some orange looking goo on top of it. I plan on riding it out, but curious if anyone else has seen a really slow ferment on this one, or even the orange goo on top of the Krausen?

I pitched rehydated Us-05 for the Blue Moon clone. No airlock activity after 24 hours so I sprinkled another package right on top- had krausen in 2 hours. Don't know if I jumped the gun or had some weak yeast on the first pitch but was happy with the result. I also had the orange goo on the top pf the krausen. I attributed it to the orange zest that I added to the boil kettle and probably got into the fermentor. What temp are you fermenting at?

I usually let my fermenter at 70F until the fermentation starts, about 12 to 24h, than lower to 67-68F for the rest of the primary.
Also, I always oxigenate with pure O2 prior to pitching.
My latest recipes used just dried orange peels, I boiled it inside a hop bag along with the coriander so it doesn't carry to the fermenter. When I did use fresh orange peels, I added it to the primary rigth at pitching time to avoid evaporating the aromas and I didn't have much trouble. Usually, the peels sink after fermentation is completed and don't cause any racking problems.

Good call on the hop bag for coriander and orange peels. I put the majority of mine in a hop bag but tossed a little zest directly in the boil pot at flame-out for a little extra flavor. Bad idea- clogged my CFC, but hey the beer tastes great. Next time everything is going in that hop bag.

I was fermenting at 68 degrees but with the slow activity I bumped it up to 73. Krausen stuck around for a full two weeks and finally fell. Still have some orange goo and yeast rafts floating around. I'll take a gravity reading in another week or so when I start dry hopping my other batch. Hopefully it was just a slow burner. I've never had to repitch to date. Fingers crossed I keep it that way.

Nilo,

I'm planning on making recipe #4 soon so I plugged it into Beersmith and it shows an estimated OG of 1.060 for a 5gal batch. Do you know what your efficiency is? I'm trying to nail down why these #s are off from the 1.049 you listed. Thank you!

Lurch69 said:

Nilo,

I'm planning on making recipe #4 soon so I plugged it into Beersmith and it shows an estimated OG of 1.060 for a 5gal batch. Do you know what your efficiency is? I'm trying to nail down why these #s are off from the 1.049 you listed. Thank you!

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65%. Note that I intentionally reduced my efficiency by collecting less wort during sparging (fly sparging) so my last running is over 1.020. That seemed to have improved my beer quality in general.
I have added the efficiency to the shared recipe file at
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0BxL7TXS8tHPsNWM2YmQ1YTYtMGY1YS00YjJjLWE5ZDktMmQ2ODdmMzljNDUz&hl=en

Just sharing a new experiment, where I bottled my blue moon clone (recipe#4) with some fresh orange peels in the bottle. I have 4 bottles with different amounts of orange peels. Just popped open the first bottle now which used a peel about 5in long (like 3/4in wide). IT TASTES AWESOME! The fresh orange aroma and flavor is amazing.
For those jumping in now, recipe available at https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0BxL7TXS8tHPsNWM2YmQ1YTYtMGY1YS00YjJjLWE5ZDktMmQ2ODdmMzljNDUz&hl=en_US&pli=1

That's great. I keg and always wondered why I couldn't just dry hop it with orange peel.

Did you still use dry peel in the boil???

Wild Duk said:

That's great. I keg and always wondered why I couldn't just dry hop it with orange peel.

Did you still use dry peel in the boil???

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Yes

did you pre cook the oats? i have rolled oats because my brew store doesnt carry flaked oats. will this work? pre bake?

Flaked and rolled oats are pretty much the same thing.

I add the oats directly to the mash. I do not run them through the mill.

Nilo has added them to the boil.

Try the recipe both ways and see which turns out better for you.

Every system is different. Every brewer does things a bit different. Try the different recipes and methods listed in the thread and find out for yourself which works best for you, your system and your taste.

sounds good. gonna use liquid cali yeast 001 instead of that dry english ale yeast. hope this works out good!

p.s. had any one heard on how nano breweries are gettin biG?

This thread is awesome. I have read the whole thread and by the end, I just had to brew this beer. My neighbors and friends Thank you very much. I put the ingredients from Wayne1's original clone recipe with some t'weeks into action. Since Wayne1's recipe was white, I added carmel 20 (1 pound in my 11 gal batch). Corriander was 1.5 oz (10 min) and Valencia OP was 2oz (5min), both were ground in my coffee grinder. Instead of oats, I used 2 pounds of flaked wheat(didn't have oats) and mashed at 151. SF-05 yeast for a split 11 gallons and WLP-320 for the other 5 gallons fermented at 62-64. Both are fantastic! The WLP-320 has slight clove taste. SF-05 very clean taste. Here's a pic.The clone is on the left.
Again, Thanks guys.
Snake10

I'm glad you enjoyed the thread and are enjoying the beer you made based around the recipe I posted.

The oats give the beer a fuller mouthfeel and smooth things out a bit. The additional wheat you added might thin out the body and make it finish a bit dryer.

There is no need to go the the homebrew store for flaked oats. Any grocery will have instant oats. That is the exact same thing as flaked oats. Next time you make the recipe, try some instant oats in the mash tun. Don't forget some rice hulls to ease lautering.

Wayne1,

I will most definitely get some oats next time. I did use some rice hulls and my mash recirculated and sparged like a dream. My efficiency was huge, 88% vice the 80 percent I based my recipe on. Thanks for all of your input on this thread. No doubt this would have tasted terrible had it not been for the "holy Grail" starting point.

Snake10

Wayne1 said:

I'm glad you enjoyed the thread and are enjoying the beer you made based around the recipe I posted.

The oats give the beer a fuller mouthfeel and smooth things out a bit. The additional wheat you added might thin out the body and make it finish a bit dryer.

There is no need to go the the homebrew store for flaked oats. Any grocery will have instant oats. That is the exact same thing as flaked oats. Next time you make the recipe, try some instant oats in the mash tun. Don't forget some rice hulls to ease lautering.

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Thats what I always use. I get a 42 oz cardboard can of store-brand quick oats for like 2.99. I use 14 oz oats per 5 gallon batch so get 3 batches per can. I mill it with my 2 row and white wheat and mash it. You probably dont need to mill it but it doesn't hurt anything.

1.5 oz corriander sounds like a lot even for a double batch, but it just comes down to how much corriander flavor you want. I use .25 oz corriander and 0.5 oz valencia orange peel and I've found that the right amount for me. I do sometimes use a fresh orange slice though when I drink it.

Even though I do all grain brewing, this is one recipe I always do partial mash because I am so happy with the ease and results. I think I listed my recipe earlier (which is based more on Wayne's recipe) but modified for partial mash. A quick recap is 2.5Lb white what, 2.5 lbs 2 row, 14 oz quick oats, 70 minute mash @ 154 degrees, 2 lb light DME, .25-.5 hops depending on AA. 90 minute boil total, hops for for 60 minutes, .25 oz corriander for 10 minutes, .5 oz orange peel for 5 minutes. Ale yeast 2 weeks at about 68 degrees. Keg, carb, and serve.

Thanks for your comments, brewit2it.

I am really excited that people are taking the original recipe and changing it a bit to suit their brewing stye and tastes. That is just what I try to do myself.

Always make it once according to the original and then modify it to suit you.

At that point, I wouldn't call it Blue Moon or a clone but your interpretation of an American Wit beer

Wayne1 said:

Thanks for your comments, brewit2it.

I am really excited that people are taking the original recipe and changing it a bit to suit their brewing stye and tastes. That is just what I try to do myself.

Always make it once according to the original and then modify it to suit you.

At that point, I wouldn't call it Blue Moon or a clone but your interpretation of an American Wit beer

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Thanks Wayne. I call mine "Blur Moon" since I've modified the original that you so generously shared. The principals I've kept from your original, which for me are fairly important, are to use only 2 row (and lightest malt extract), white wheat, and Oats. No crystal malt or specialty grains, no late hop additions, always use Ale yeast, and certainly no clarifying agents. I do like to use the term "American Wit" to describe it but got a load of crap from some folks here for calling it that rather than "American Wheat", but that's a different story.

This last batch I used light LME instead of dry since that was what I had on hand and the color is slightly darker and actually much more like the current commercial version of Blue Moon. It does make me wonder how the current Blue Moon is orange and less white in color if they really only use 2 row, white wheat, and oats. Food coloring maybe from orange extract or maybe they have changed it to use some cyrstal? I think nilo found the same thing, that is if you follow the original recipe you get something that looks more like Celis than Blue Moon. I prefer the white color personally, but if you want something that looks just like the current Blue Moon you have to change the original recipe a bit in my experience.

Cheers

I was wondering about the color also. I brewed a different Blue Moon Clone and it came out looking nothing like Blue Moon...or taste for that matter. I'd be curious how they get the color in there as well. I'm liking what I am seeing on this thread though and I think I may give this one a go. I'm not a big wheat beer fan so I am trying to expand my horizons a bit. My dad loves Blue Moon though so I may send him half of the batch.

Nevermind....

nilo said:

I have not brewed extract for a while, but this is what I would do, assuming that I could get extra light and wheat DME.

Steep:
2.0lb crystal 10L in 2gals of water at 155F for 30min

For boil (assuming 5gal batch and 6.5gal boil):
2.0 lb wheat DME
3.0 lb extra light DME
1/2lb flaked oats for last 15min
1oz hallertauer 4% for 1h
Ferment at 167F with S04

OG=1.047
SG=1.012
ABV%=4.4
IBU=14

Of course FG is sometimes hard to predic with extract beers, but I would give it a shot. I remove the dextrin since extract usually provide more un-fermentables.
If you do brew this, report back.

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How did this turn out? I'm trying to find an extract based recipe for this with dummy proof instructions (I get a bit lost sometimes as a noobie).


Also, I was considering brewing this with a twist for a spring beer - instead of orange do blueberry or strawberry... thoughts?

Bassballboy,
How are you fermemnting at that temp? i thought fermenting was supposed to be dont at between 72-80 unless is a Lager, then lits like 55.. Im still kinda new though, so I am literally learning 60 new things a day

The message was from nilo but I'm pretty sure the 167 was supposed to be 67.

Thanks, Yes, 67F. I have updated the post.

Brewing this up tomorrow as Nilos #4.......Never used dry yeast before....I'm using Safale s-04.....

Can I just sprinkle it on the wort, or do
i have to dehydrate somehow....Never done it.

Thx

I have always rehydrated dry yeast, but a couple of weeks ago I just pitched right on top. Worked fine. Make sure you cool down the wort and aerate well.

I just finished a keg of Nilo's #4 using S04 dry yeast.

It was a really good beer but I did not think it was really close to Blue Moon. It was much sweeter and had a lot more sweet orange flavor.

I just started using liquid yeast and think I will try again using Wayne's recipe from the first page using no bitter orange and only a fraction of the sweet orange peel. 2oz of sweet was way over the top IMO if shooting for a Blue Moon clone. I'll also use the WLP001 yeast to see how that works.

In all fairness, I'm not sure if it was the amount of orange or the yeast I chose which put it so far off of the Blue Moon style. Will report back when I try again.

golphur said:

I just finished a keg of Nilo's #4 using S04 dry yeast.

It was a really good beer but I did not think it was really close to Blue Moon. It was much sweeter and had a lot more sweet orange flavor.

I just started using liquid yeast and think I will try again using Wayne's recipe from the first page using no bitter orange and only a fraction of the sweet orange peel. 2oz of sweet was way over the top IMO if shooting for a Blue Moon clone. I'll also use the WLP001 yeast to see how that works.

In all fairness, I'm not sure if it was the amount of orange or the yeast I chose which put it so far off of the Blue Moon style. Will report back when I try again.

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I'm curious on what your mashing temp and FG were

That's another variable. I converted to extract when I brewed this one. I used the same proportions of wheat extract and light DME as the all grain recipe. Steeped the specialty grains and boiled the oats for the last 15 minutes. I don't think the extract could account for the sweetness I was tasting, but it is certainly another variable. The flavor was very consistent with the sweet orange peel. I think if I cut the sweet peel down it would be more blue moon -ish

I've since switched to all-grain and will give it anther shot because the beer was great. Just too many variables to play with to make a good assessment. Wayne's interpretation looks pretty good to me. I have not tried any other recipes with the volume of orange peel you used in #4 in my past brews so I locked in to that as the reason for the sweetness. I could be wrong in that assumption though.

Edit FG was 1.013

I just brewed 5 gal of Nilo's 4 yesterday. I nailed my mash temp of 158, and followed the recipe exactly, with one exception.
I decided to mash 12oz oats with the grain bill. Everything went well on brewday, pitched 1 pack of s-04 @ 7pm.
As of 7 am this morning, fermentation is chugging along @ 68 degrees.
My boiloff rate was quite high yesterday for some reason, so I ended up a bit short on volume but high on OG @ 1.053
I ended up with 4.75 gal in carboy, topped up with a qt of water.
I'm quite excited about this one!
Golphur, I'll keep posted as to my sweetness level. I wonder if for some reason using extract had an affect on sweetness.
Just a guess. If mine is too sweet as well, we can rule that out and scale back sweet peel a bit for our tastes.
I should know in a week...

I'm not an experienced clone brewer but from the few experiments I did, I have tried to consider the following when brewing this BM clone:
- Mouth feel and thickness
- Color
- Bitterness
- Carbonation
- Head and head retention
- Orange flavor
- Coriander flavor
- Yeast profile flavor
- Off flavors
- Clarity

I tried to selected the ingredients used on recipe #4 for the following reasons:

- Base malts => I guess there isn't much to say other than the part wheat will provide a chill haze and promote the cloudiness expected in this beer. So a mix of 2row and wheat malt makes sense. I have brewed beers with 100% wheat malt and it did come out quite good, so that option could also be explored.

- Crystal => for color and flavor. I found very hard to achieve the BM color with only base malts and perhaps I needed more flavor to this beer. This is when you may step a little away from the "clone" in order to get a tastier beer.

- Oats => Thickness and flavor. I found that mashing oats or flaked wheat had no affect whatsoever to the final beer thickness. The only way I could get it close to the real BM was by boiling the oats to release that nasty thick mess. The flavor added is not necessarily something I appreciate.

- Carbonation => I just used 1cup corn sugar for priming. I did no test with different carbonation levels.

- Orange peels and coriander => this is a personal preference I guess as people may have different perception of the orange and coriander flavors. The amount of orange peels needs to be tested and adjusted, either to taste like the real BM or to what you like best.

- Yeast => I think that few strains can be used successfully. I have tried only S04 because I'm familiar with it. S05, WL001 sounds like good options. In fact, S05 may be better as it doesn't clear up as S04 does.

- All grain or extract => I think this is a big deal and each will provide its own characteristics. Adapting all grain recipes to extract may not provide the best results at first and would need to be tested and adjusted.

- Carapils => for head retention and mouth feel. Together with a higher mash temp to increase FG. I got 1.012 that is not that sweet for my ability to taste dextrins. This may vary from people to people and adjusted accordingly.

Again, I'm not an expert, so if you see something here that doesn't make sense please feel free to correct me.

Happy 2012!

I just brewed up Nilos #4, spot on to the recipe, no variations.....I hit my temp of 157-158....My OG was (Per my recipe in BeerSmith???) of 1.056. A little higher than Nilos, but thats what my beersmith came up with.....

I'm hoping this turns out good.....It will be my 4th or 5th attempt at cloning a good version of BM....Failed every other time.....

nilo said:

Yes, curacao is the same as bitter, from what I know.
I decided to go crazy with the sweet orange peels just to see what happen, but 2oz did not add much more flavor, at least not as I thought it would.
I'm not sure if the water adjustment that I did also improved the beer, but #4 is what i'll be brewing again, perhaps using only fresh orange peels as I did in a previous recipe.
I have said this before, if you drink both commercial and home brew side by side, you will not want, ever , to drink the commercial again.

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Nilo, could you please confirm your spice/peel addition time(s)? For recipe #4 was everything added at 10 min?

Thanks!

mccabedoug said:

Nilo, could you please confirm your spice/peel addition time(s)? For recipe #4 was everything added at 10 min?

Thanks!

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The spices were added to last 10min of boil

Nilo. Would you recomend adding fresh peel like you did to the bottles. Think it made a difference. I keg, so not sure how much to add.

Wild Duk said:

Nilo. Would you recomend adding fresh peel like you did to the bottles. Think it made a difference. I keg, so not sure how much to add.

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Yes, it made a big difference in flavor and aroma. I did that with just 4 bottles, each with a certain amount of peels to check how much would be too much. For my taste, peel from 1/8 of an average orange was enough, per bottle. For a 5gal keg, my guess would be to use peels from 3 oranges. I would add it to a muslin bag or something like that and into the keg with a line to fish it out after a week or two. If you leave it in while you serve, it may get sucked by the serving rod (tube, whatever it is called).

Thx. So just regular oranges and just peel and nothing else. Did you sterilize at all.. 5 gal's is about 50 ish 12 oz. beers. So 3 should be enough????

Thinking I may give it a try

I brewed recipe #4 as is, adding the fresh peels to few 22oz bottles, as described. I washed and left the whole orange soaking in star-san for a minute or two before peeling it, that's all.