PSI Level

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Bah, this is semantics and circular logic.

If you hook up to the liquid tube right after transferring the beer to the keg, there isn't much CO2 to knock out of solution, since it isn't carbonated, and carbonation will happen slightly faster due to increased surface area as the bubbles work their way up.

If you hook up to the liquid tube once the beer is carbonated, there's no effect, since the beer is carbonated, and the headspace/beer is already at the carbonation pressure, so no CO2 will flow.

If, for some reason, your beer is carbonated but your headspace is not pressurized, it means you just vented the headspace and it hasn't re-equilibrated yet...I don't know why you'd do this.

Hooking up Gas to the liquid post immediately after transferring will knock a BIT of the CO2 from fermentation out of the beer....but your headspace is only .25 gallons, and you already have 4+ gallons of CO2 in the beer from natural fermentation at room temp/atmospheric pressure, and the rate of gas flow is high enough to pressurize the headspace in a very short time. In the end, you'll quickly pressurize the headspace, at which point for each mL of CO2 absorbed by the beer, another mL will leak out the liquid tube and carbonate on it's way up. The increased surface area WILL increase carbonation rate, (it will carbonate faster). HOW much faster is up for debate, but at best you are looking at 0+ faster, (at worst, it carbonates at the same rate, at best it carbonates much faster).

In no way will hooking up to the liquid tube carbonate slower...although the speed gain in carbonation may be minimal to none at all.

Hooking up to the liquid tube if the beer is overcarbonated IS a way of decarbonating the beer, but only because you prop the gas valve OPEN in this case, thus reducing headspace pressure to 0 PSIG, and letting the bubbling CO2 knock CO2 out of suspension.
 
This isn't directed at anyone in particular but dropping the pressure so you are able to serve without foam is a moronic solution.

Moronic is a pretty strong term.

It's an excellent solution in a pinch.

I'll agree it's a very poor idea as a long term answer, but it's a perfectly fine way to go for a few days or a week while you put together your game plan and wait for shipping on the new stuff.
 
This isn't directed at anyone in particular but dropping the pressure so you are able to serve without foam is a moronic solution.

If you carb at 12psi and you get too much foam the solution is to get longer lines, or increase resistance with different lines, or artificially create resistance. It's been said. If you carb at 12 psi and then drop your serving pressure to 8 psi, eventually your beer will be undercarbed at 8 psi. You could readjust every night back to 12psi to keep it carbed but who wants to do that?

If you did not over carb your beer and you get too much foam, buy more line. I don't know why some people are so against it. Especially a place that sells line.

Since I am the only one who mentioned 8 psi, it seems directed at me. Based on all the charts I've looked at, 8 psi is in the realm of proper carbonation, especially at temps 40 or lower, so I don't think serving at 8 psi is going to leave your beer undercarbed unless your temps are up. And as I explained, I don't want my IPA heavily carbed, I prefer a lower level something like how a cask conditioned beer would be. But I'm new to kegging so someone please educate me. Saying something is moronic is not exactly productive or helpful.

Anyway, I think the original poster may have over-carbed his beer somehow? I turned my pressure up to 12 psi and it served just fine on a 6 ft. hose (as it did at 8 psi). It seems the shorter line is okay if you've been patient with your carbing. That being said, I am going to increase my line to 10 ft. just be safe because so many people recommend it.

I appreciate all the experience and knowledge on these boards. It helped me immensely with getting my brew kegged.
 
Anyway, I think the original poster may have over-carbed his beer somehow? I turned my pressure up to 12 psi and it served just fine on a 6 ft. hose (as it did at 8 psi). It seems the shorter line is okay if you've been patient with your carbing. That being said, I am going to increase my line to 10 ft. just be safe because so many people recommend it.

I appreciate all the experience and knowledge on these boards. It helped me immensely with getting my brew kegged.

I think you're right. It'll have been carbing for 3 weeks this Saturday, too. I haven't done anything to try and resolve that yet, but it is sitting at about 2 PSI in the fridge right now. Been like that since Saturday or Sunday maybe (maybe just since my last post, I don't remember anymore). It still comes flying out of the tap in a rage, too.

I think my experimentation is over and I will also buy 10 ft of line. I think I'll just replace the whole kit (ball lock, line, & tap) so I don't have to mangle this brand new 5 footer. I'm sure it'll be handy to have around once I get some more experience.

I appreciate ALL of the feedback here. I'm sure to be a regular participant of HBT!

:mug:
 
Since I am the only one who mentioned 8 psi, it seems directed at me. Based on all the charts I've looked at, 8 psi is in the realm of proper carbonation, especially at temps 40 or lower, so I don't think serving at 8 psi is going to leave your beer undercarbed unless your temps are up. And as I explained, I don't want my IPA heavily carbed, I prefer a lower level something like how a cask conditioned beer would be. But I'm new to kegging so someone please educate me. Saying something is moronic is not exactly productive or helpful.

I'll just say this. You're the brewer and you can carb your beer and drink it wherever it seems right to you.

But if I were a guest in your house and you served me an IPA carbed to 8 psi, there's a pretty strong chance that I'd bite my tongue and be polite while I was a guest in your home, probably even tell you it was good, but ***** about the "flat" beer you served me for a day or two after I left....

Just sayin is all... Hell, if you really like it that way, then go for it.
 
Tom2365 said:
Since I am the only one who mentioned 8 psi, it seems directed at me. Based on all the charts I've looked at, 8 psi is in the realm of proper carbonation, especially at temps 40 or lower, so I don't think serving at 8 psi is going to leave your beer undercarbed unless your temps are up. And as I explained, I don't want my IPA heavily carbed, I prefer a lower level something like how a cask conditioned beer would be. But I'm new to kegging so someone please educate me. Saying something is moronic is not exactly productive or helpful.

Anyway, I think the original poster may have over-carbed his beer somehow? I turned my pressure up to 12 psi and it served just fine on a 6 ft. hose (as it did at 8 psi). It seems the shorter line is okay if you've been patient with your carbing. That being said, I am going to increase my line to 10 ft. just be safe because so many people recommend it.

I appreciate all the experience and knowledge on these boards. It helped me immensely with getting my brew kegged.

Very poor choice of words by me. Sorry Tom and whoever else I offended.

What I meant though is that if you want the volumes of co2 that 12 psi will give you at a given temp, then you should serve at 12 psi. If you want less carb, then lower is fine. But, if you want the carb from 12 psi and are lowering pressure for serving to compensate for foam, then you are doing something wrong. Eventually it will be under carbed.

Cheers
 
What I meant though is that if you want the volumes of co2 that 12 psi will give you at a given temp, then you should serve at 12 psi. If you want less carb, then lower is fine. But, if you want the carb from 12 psi and are lowering pressure for serving to compensate for foam, then you are doing something wrong. Eventually it will be under carbed.

Yes, this. You should carb, store, and serve the beer all under the same pressure.

You rack from the carboy to the keg. You set the pressure on the regulator.

You should never have to touch that regulator again until the keg is empty and you're putting a new one in.

If you mess with your regulator more than that, then your system isn't balanced properly....
 
Since I am the only one who mentioned 8 psi, it seems directed at me. Based on all the charts I've looked at, 8 psi is in the realm of proper carbonation, especially at temps 40 or lower, so I don't think serving at 8 psi is going to leave your beer undercarbed unless your temps are up. And as I explained, I don't want my IPA heavily carbed, I prefer a lower level something like how a cask conditioned beer would be.

Yep, BJCP guidelines for carbonation of IPA's is 1.5-2.3 vol. At 8psi, any serving temp between 36F and 58F would be in that range. At 12 psi, you'd need to keep the beer at or above 44F to stay within range. I'm guessing your carb level at 8psi is dead on for style.
 
Wow, lots of different opinions here.....love it. Art Vandelay, no worries. You're right something is definitely wrong with MKE's system. I was just suggesting that maybe lowering to 8 psi would help him achieve a pourable beer. Wouldn't solve whatever is going on with his system, though.

subliminalurge, my IPA is by no means flat at 8 psi. I was trying to mimic my local favorite IPA, which is cask conditioned, served at cellar temp and probably what you would call "undercarbed". Mine is definitely more carbonated than the cask conditioned and since that cask conditioned beer is very well-liked around here, I'm pretty confident serving my beer to guests at the "lower" carbonation. Nobody's complained yet, but like you said, maybe they were just being polite. But that's okay, I like it and that's all that matters!:rockin:

Juan, do you have a link to that chart? It seems to confirm what I was thinking.
 
My kegging system was bought at my LHBS and they pre-set the regulator for an 8psi serving pressure. So, 8psi as long as you're in the temp range for that beer should by no means lead to an under-carbed beer.
 
Kegged for the second time almost 3 weeks ago with some adjustments based on my last experience.

Still trying to tweak it just right, now it seems the guage may be completely shot. Even though I can hear the gas when I turn it up, the needle doesn't move.

This thing is over 10 years old. Think its past due for replacement. New regulator & all.
 
Even though I can hear the gas when I turn it up, the needle doesn't move.

Have you checked to make sure it isn't caught? Sometimes the dial plate gets bent or twisted in such a way that it rubs against the needle, causing it to stick. You should be able to pop the face plate off and see if the needle moves freely.
 
Allow me to add one more thing to this thread - I completely agree with the longer lines are better statement, but until such time that someone is able to procure those lines, here is how you should approach the 'turn down to serve' method:

Carb at whatever PSI you want - i.e. 12 PSI

When you are ready to serve, turn your gauge down to serving pressure - i.e. 6 PSI

You must then PURGE the keg of it's pressure until you hear gas flow and re-check the gauge. You may also need to do this here and there throughout your serving day.

At the end of your serving day, turn gauge back up to 12 PSI.

Why do you need to do this? Once your beer is fully carbed, you have a lot of liquid that is holding 12PSI of CO2. The headspace is equal to that 12PSI. When you turn that gauge down, the headspace is NOT vented (in my experience and knowledge). After pouring a beer or two, it will probably get down to your serving pressure, but in order to avoid a glass of foam, the purge will help. Once this headspace is at 6PSI, it is no longer holding the CO2 in the beer. The beer begins to degas until the headspace is once again at equilibrium with the beer, maybe 11 PSI if you've got a full keg. This takes time, but will eventually require another purge to reset to serving pressure.

The above is also how you can go about bringing an overcarbed beer back down to the right CO2 level.

Moral of the story? Longer lines = win.
 

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