Why no secondary?

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Waste of time, energy, clean up, etc. Unless its a big beer (>1100ish) I wont secondary at all. Just 4-6 weeks in primary and then cold crash and its good to go
 
The reason to use a secondary is to remove the inactive yeast from the beer.

In large scale breweries, this is done because the volume of beer in the fermenter applies great pressure upon the yeast. Yeast under stress die and autolyze causing off flavors.

Since this isn't a problem for the home brewer, secondary fermenters serve another purpose. This practice comes into play when aging a beer for an extended period of time(which can be done in the bottle) or when adding fruit or oak as a post fermentation flavoring agent.

Many brewers like using secondary fermenters and there is nothing wrong with them. Just many of us see it as an unneeded step.
 
The way i was explained to was this: for new people the secondary fermenter is used primarily as a means to start your second brew quicker if you don't want to wait the whole amount of time to finish your first batch.

Basically the carboy becomes not necessarily a secondary fermenter as much as another primary fermenter. Hope that's clear as mud.
 
Rather than starting ANOTHER thread about this, why don't you just read what's already beer written? It's not like there's no info available...

This is your best source.

I mean, in most of the threads where the "seasoned brewers" say they don't use them, they usually explain why.
 
Revvy said:
Rather than starting ANOTHER thread about this, why don't you just read what's already beer written? It's not like there's no info available...

This is your best source.

I mean, in most of the threads where the "seasoned brewers" say they don't use them, they usually explain why.

I've been through many threads and alot of them just state they don't use them or that they do use a secondary Simply to start another brew. They don't give an explanation as to why. So I started the thread to get an exact answer. I figured it gave the brew a better flavor if you leave it in the primary. I am a newbie gathering info. No need to be an d!ck about it. I'm just learning.
 
Thank you guys. With every question I ask and with ever answer I become more knowledgeable and in turn become a better brewer.
 
No need to be an d!ck about it. I'm just learning.

Revvy's not being a d!ck. It's just that this question has been asked hundreds of times. There are hundreds of threads dealing with it - it's been done to death. We appreciate that you are new and are learning - we were all there once. And when I was a newbie one of the best pieces of advice I was given was "Search is your friend." Most, if not all, questions you have can be answered by using the search function.

Welcome to the obsession!

Cheers!
K
 
I've been through many threads and alot of them just state they don't use them or that they do use a secondary Simply to start another brew. They don't give an explanation as to why. So I started the thread to get an exact answer. I figured it gave the brew a better flavor if you leave it in the primary. I am a newbie gathering info. No need to be an d!ck about it. I'm just learning.
Just a suggestion for the future, both here and for any other message board you visit: There is usually a FAQ located in a handy and obvious place, often a whole section of 'sticky' posts (posts always sectioned off at the top). In this case, it's right at the top of the Beginners forum. Can't miss it. The FAQ covers all the basics. Your question, in fact, is just the seventh on the list.

Also in that informational section, just a few links down is another handy link with details about what you're asking.

The first thing you should do on any message board, no matter the subject, is to seek that section and read it.

Cheers.
 
Allow me to sum up homebrewing in a way that cannot be thought of as 'dickish' -

Ask 20 home brewers how to do a process, and you'll get more than 20 answers.

If it makes decent...nay...good beer...its the correct method. Period.

I love my secondary...most of the time...but I'll skip it at least 1/3 the time simply because the beer is too dark to matter if there's any yeast haze.

There's only a handful of definititve 'truths' in homebrewing, and even many of those are getting muddled with new inventive methods, equipment and ingredients.
 
We were all once new to this hobby, so let's not get sideways about newer folks who give us the privilege of weighing in on their questions instead of only searching through the archives. This can be a confusing hobby at times, and there is no reason to get short with folks who just want to do it right. :).
 
Transferring fermented wort to a secondary fermenter just gives you another chance to induce oxidation, infection, etc. I won't do it unless I have a very good reason.

NRS
 
Conventional wisdom used to be that racking to secondary improved the beer in various ways. Lots of scientific reasons were given. Blind tastings have pretty much shown this not to be the case.

http://***********/component/resour...xperiment-does-delayed-racking-harm-your-beer
 
I've been through many threads and alot of them just state they don't use them or that they do use a secondary Simply to start another brew. They don't give an explanation as to why. So I started the thread to get an exact answer. I figured it gave the brew a better flavor if you leave it in the primary. I am a newbie gathering info. No need to be an d!ck about it. I'm just learning.

When people do not give you the answer you want to hear, try not to think of them as a 'd!ck'. They might just teach you something.

Realizing this comes with maturity, a point that you have clearly not reached. Give it time.

Revvys point is that there is lots of info on why a secondary is a pointless exercise in almost all cases - perhaps you need to look harder, and stop being a d!ck about it. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA:tank:
 
Rather than starting ANOTHER thread about this, why don't you just read what's already beer written? It's not like there's no info available...

This is your best source.

I mean, in most of the threads where the "seasoned brewers" say they don't use them, they usually explain why.

I've been through many threads and alot of them just state they don't use them or that they do use a secondary Simply to start another brew. They don't give an explanation as to why. So I started the thread to get an exact answer. I figured it gave the brew a better flavor if you leave it in the primary. I am a newbie gathering info. No need to be an d!ck about it. I'm just learning.

Revvy's not being a d!ck. It's just that this question has been asked hundreds of times. There are hundreds of threads dealing with it - it's been done to death. We appreciate that you are new and are learning - we were all there once. And when I was a newbie one of the best pieces of advice I was given was "Search is your friend." Most, if not all, questions you have can be answered by using the search function.

Welcome to the obsession!

Cheers!
K

Just a suggestion for the future, both here and for any other message board you visit: There is usually a FAQ located in a handy and obvious place, often a whole section of 'sticky' posts (posts always sectioned off at the top). In this case, it's right at the top of the Beginners forum. Can't miss it. The FAQ covers all the basics. Your question, in fact, is just the seventh on the list.

Also in that informational section, just a few links down is another handy link with details about what you're asking.

The first thing you should do on any message board, no matter the subject, is to seek that section and read it.

Cheers.

We were all once new to this hobby, so let's not get sideways about newer folks who give us the privilege of weighing in on their questions instead of only searching through the archives. This can be a confusing hobby at times, and there is no reason to get short with folks who just want to do it right. :).

No reason to jump on his case if he is asking a question. There is a reason forum is called the "BEGINNER BEER BREWING FORUM". Let the beginners ask beginner questions in this forum. It;s not like he is asking it in the all grain forum.

If you get annoyed by repeating answers to beginner questions over and over again, maybe you should just not post in this "BEGINNER Beer brewing forum".
 
No reason to jump on his case if he is asking a question. There is a reason forum is called the "BEGINNER BEER BREWING FORUM". Let the beginners ask beginner questions in this forum. It;s not like he is asking it in the all grain forum.

If you get annoyed by repeating answers to beginner questions over and over again, maybe you should just not post in this "BEGINNER Beer brewing forum".
If a polite, helpful, and informative "just as suggestion" post is the same to you as jumping on someone's case, I can't imagine how thin your skin must be. Either that or you just didn't read my post. If you did, you'd see that lumping me in with "jumping on his case" or suggesting I was annoyed is preposterous.
 
Revvy really needs to ignore these threads.

New posters often don't know about the search function; nothing wrong with telling them to use it.

Other people should develop thicker skin.
 
jjones17 said:
When people do not give you the answer you want to hear, try not to think of them as a 'd!ck'. They might just teach you something.

Realizing this comes with maturity, a point that you have clearly not reached. Give it time.

Revvys point is that there is lots of info on why a secondary is a pointless exercise in almost all cases - perhaps you need to look harder, and stop being a d!ck about it. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA:tank:

I was not being a d!ck about it. Only trying to learn. The way he came off was d!ckish and I didn't appreciate it. I don't understand why you even post if you are going to be negative. If you don't wan to answer the question then move on to the next thread.
 
That is enough!

This is the BEGINNER'S forum. That's where the question was placed, that is where the question belongs, and I would expect you guys to either a) answer the question or b) walk away.

I don't care if this question is asked 100,000 times a day. That is the first time this person asked it. Just because it's "old" to you doesn't mean it isn't worth discussing and a valued question in this forum.

No one is obligated to answer it. If you can't say something nice, or positive, then walk away.

Now, get back to the topic and stop with the arguing. Right now.

No reason to jump on his case if he is asking a question. There is a reason forum is called the "BEGINNER BEER BREWING FORUM". Let the beginners ask beginner questions in this forum. It;s not like he is asking it in the all grain forum.

If you get annoyed by repeating answers to beginner questions over and over again, maybe you should just not post in this "BEGINNER Beer brewing forum".

I agree wholeheartedly with this. If you feel you must lecture, rant, tell people to use the "search", etc, walk away and don't post here! This is NOT homebrewSEARCH.com, it is homebrewTALK.com.
 
Is it possible to "sticky" a master "Should I Use a Secondary" thread in the beginner forum? If it's a really common question and members are frustrated having to address it ad nauseum then maybe that's a way to keep everyone happy.
 
Nowadays, the major perpetuators of the idea of secondary fermentation are the homebrew equipment sellers, who's premium and advanced kits always include a secondary fermentation carboy; not because it's needed, but because it allows for a bigger sale. The way it's advertised, it's easy to see why beginners would think that it is the best way to do it.
 
Biggest reasons I use a secondary:

(1) frees up a primary to start the next batch
(2) it can be a looooooong time between brewing and bottling for me and I feel better with a secondary with no (or almost no) headspace and an airlock
 
Nowadays, the major perpetuators of the idea of secondary fermentation are the homebrew equipment sellers, who's premium and advanced kits always include a secondary fermentation carboy; not because it's needed, but because it allows for a bigger sale. The way it's advertised, it's easy to see why beginners would think that it is the best way to do it.

I'm not much for conspiracy theories, but there's a lot to this statement. A guy that works at my LHBS told me that he had single-stage fermentation kits, but that he "wouldn't sell them to me because you can't make good beer with only one fermenter." Seriously - that's a direct quote. I told him that I had read here that you could leave it on the yeast for a month and get great results and he said "that's way too long - it will taste horrible." I told him I would bring him a bottle of my "horrible" beer and he could taste for himself, but it ended up being too good to waste a bottle on that guy!

Oh well, after time you learn that there isn't really a "best way" to do much of anything when it comes to homebrewing. After a few batches you just start to do whatever seems to work for you. A secondary isn't necessary for most ales because for most ales you just let them ferment out, clear for a week or so and bottle. All of that can be done in the primary with no risk to your beer - so why even bother transferring? But if racking to a secondary gives YOU better results because of YOUR experience, then who is anyone else to tell you that you're wrong or that long primaries are better?
 
With tthe amount of time most of us age beer, racking to a secondary won't produce clearer beer. So there's no reason to do it for that.
THe common wisdom, and perhaps even science, is that a month on the yeast will not harm and usually will improve a beer. So there's no reason to do it for that.
Even if you have considerable head space the positive pressure from fermentation and gassing off will eliminate the chance of oxidizing. So there's no reason to do it for that.
The only reason you would have to use a secondary is if you are adding fruit.
Even dry hops can be added to the primary.
 
I have been nose deep in the forums and various online sources for the last few months since starting this hobby. I have read a great deal about the primary vs secondary debate.

Full Primary Pros:
-Simple (less cleanup)
-Reduces the risk of Oxidation
-No noticeable flavor change from resting on the trube for a short duration

Secondary Pros:
-Clearer Beer (debatable for some)
-Less head-space
-Can be stored/aged for long periods of time lower risk for yeast Autolysis
-At this stage, one can add fruit/oak chips among other "stuff"

I by no means claim to be an expert, I am just starting off. This is what i have gathered on the subject from reading several threads. I am sure I am missing other important points.

My major grievance with this debate is that I have yet to find a pro-vs-con view for specific styles of beer. It is always just "in general". My concern is there is no focus on this for say dry hopping. From the books I picked up at my LHBS, most say you need to dry hop in a glass carboy after racking to secondary. If I go by what I read here, I would assume it would be perfectly fine to just toss some pellet hops into my primary (after confirming fermentation is complete).

Maybe someone with experience can enlighten the conversation... is dry hopping more worth while in a the primary or secondary?
 
Regarding beginner noobish questions:

When I first started brewing, I did not know the brewing vernacular, so I had a hell of a time figuring out what to search FOR to get the info I was seeking.

This seems to be a common issue regarding new brewers, as an experienced brewer I sometimes forget what it was like to struggle to find answers when I really didn't know what it was I was supposed to be looking for.
 
I’ve been brewing for about a year and a half, with about 20 batches under my belt. Six months ago, I thought I was “experienced”. But with each batch, I realize I’m still noobish in certain ways. Oh well.

There are lots of techniques one must learn in order to consistently brew great beer. BUT, one can brew good beer with only a few simple skills. Rather than ask “yes or no on a secondary?” I would re-frame the question as: what brewing techniques are needed for this recipe?

The only time I tried using a secondary, I bollixed it up by transferring too soon. Had a hard time getting good attenuation. The beer ended up decent, I think, still too early to tell. But it brought home the point that there are good ways and bad ways of doing most anything, and if you aren’t sure about the good ways, you should consider avoiding it until you can handle it. I’m in no rush to use a secondary, but when I do, it will be because the beer I want to make requires it.

Consider the following list of techniques: Secondary fermentation, making a starter, dry hopping, controlling the fermentation temperature (including raising or lowering during the process), partial mash, all-grain mash, partigyle, kegging, kettle caramelization, and others as well. NONE of these are absolutely essential to making a good beer. I would expect that most brewers with some experience know how to do these. But we probably learned them in different orders, based on the recipes we were trying to make.

So, Brewhooker, feel free to ask questions and learn as you go. Cheers!
 
Read all the books from 20 years ago and it was the way to go.

My take: if you don't have enough knowledge or experience to decide for your self and do not have a guru you can trust then go to secondary...

Experiance will let you know if it's worth it or needed.

Certian types of beers will benifit others will not. (Some will be better if you don't)
 
Read all the books from 20 years ago and it was the way to go.

My take: if you don't have enough knowledge or experience to decide for your self and do not have a guru you can trust then go to secondary...

Experiance will let you know if it's worth it or needed.

Certian types of beers will benifit others will not. (Some will be better if you don't)

I agree fully. Anyone who has been here for more than 5 minutes knows it's an area of contoversy. In fact, just to be able to ask the question proves you are aware that some endorse it and some don't, so it is very unlikely a bunch more words in another thread is going to prove the benefit or lack there of to anyone, brand new brewer, or seasoned vet. The only way to answer it is going to be to try with and without a secondary, preferably with the same recipe, and optimally in the same batch with all other variables controlled. Then you will be able to share with others your experience, and whether YOU believe it makes a difference. Personally I'm a pretty lazy brewer and always looking for a shortcut that won't affect quality. As soon as I heard that many, maybe even most, felt using a secondary wasn't likely to improve the quality of my ales, that was good enough for me so I never posted a "why shouldn't I use a secondary" thread.
 
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