DIY Insulated Mash Tun

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jimmayhugh

jimmayhugh

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Picked this up from ebay (yes, the seller said it was decommissioned) :D :
20120225UncutKeg_720x960.png


Turned it upside-down, and went at it with a combination of angle grinder, sawsall, and dremel tool:

20120225CutKegTopView_720x960.png


Yeah had a little "Whoopsie" with the sawsall, but not bad for first time try, freehand. :ban:

Next step is to order a false bottom, 2" Tri-clover, some pipe and a ball valve and try out my new mash tun. :rockin:
 
Well, I had a little free time one evening, so I used my dremel and a boxcutter to remove more rubber from the lid area, and plan to even out the metal lip:
20120302KegOpening_960x720.png


Also got the hardware from Brewer's Hardware for the drain:
20120302KegDrainHardware_720x960.png


Unfortunately, the 13″ stainless steel false bottom I have for my 10gal Rubbermaid cooler is too large to get through the opening of my mash tun, so I’ll probably be ordering a new hinged false bottom from NorCal Brewing Solutions sometime soon. In the meantime, I’ll check for leaks and wait…
 
Do you think the false bottom you have would fit well once you get it in? You can put two slits in the top with a jigsaw or dremel or something. Then you can slide 'er in.
 
iijakii said:
Do you think the false bottom you have would fit well once you get it in? You can put two slits in the top with a jigsaw or dremel or something. Then you can slide 'er in.
Click to expand...

The opening from rubber edge to rubber edge is only 12", plus the internal diameter is 15", so I figure that a hinged FB is a better bet.
 
OK, yesterday I filled the tun with about 13gal of 180 degree water, put a lid on top, and took temperature readings every 10 minutes for an hour and a half. The results were not good. Ambient temp was 68, with gusty winds. There was an almost linear 3 degree drop at every reading :(

I've already started gathering what I need for a RIMS setup, and I'm going to get some reflectix. :cross:
 
jimmayhugh said:
OK, yesterday I filled the tun with about 13gal of 180 degree water, put a lid on top, and took temperature readings every 10 minutes for an hour and a half. The results were not good. Ambient temp was 68, with gusty winds. There was an almost linear 3 degree drop at every reading :(

I've already started gathering what I need for a RIMS setup, and i'm going to get some reflectix. :cross:
Click to expand...

With RIMS no insulation is needed.
 
jimmayhugh said:
OK, yesterday I filled the tun with about 13gal of 180 degree water, put a lid on top, and took temperature readings every 10 minutes for an hour and a half. The results were not good. Ambient temp was 68, with gusty winds. There was an almost linear 3 degree drop at every reading :(

I've already started gathering what I need for a RIMS setup, and i'm going to get some reflectix. :cross:
Click to expand...

Was the lid insulated as well?
 
Stevo2569 said:
With RIMS no insulation is needed.
Click to expand...

Sorry this is a false statement. RIMS solves the problem of uneven mash temps due to direct fire. It does not solve heat loss. Insulating will result in reduced firing of the burner to maintain a temperature. Everyone who is not steam jacketed should have some form of insulation.
 
jcaudill said:
Sorry this is a false statement. RIMS solves the problem of uneven mash temps due to direct fire. It does not solve heat loss. Insulating will result in reduced firing of the burner to maintain a temperature. Everyone who is not steam jacketed should have some form of insulation.
Click to expand...

That was my thought also, you just posted it for me... :rockin:
 
Well I'd say it depends on your RIMS setup, right? If you're putting enough through it, you should be able to maintain temperature perfectly fine. Unless your ambient is very, very cold.
 
jcaudill said:
Sorry this is a false statement. RIMS solves the problem of uneven mash temps due to direct fire. It does not solve heat loss. Insulating will result in reduced firing of the burner to maintain a temperature. Everyone who is not steam jacketed should have some form of insulation.
Click to expand...

Sorry true statement. I usually mash in a cooler because it is more effecient. But I have mashed in my uninsulated Keggle several times and held temps with no problem with a 1500W element. So the term NOT NEEDED is correct.
Also I saw nothing in the pics or text that suggest this is a direct fire mash tun.

To the OP. I like the bottom drain. I've been pondering doing the same thing with an extra keg. Looks good. Pretty sure depending on power cost in your area and ambient temps there's no need to insulate. What's an extra .25 per brew day on heating element power. But hay it won't hurt. If you haven't already, check out the RIMS for dummies thread. Lots of great info. That's where I got the ideas for my design. Love my Rims and recently added auto-sparge. "Set it AND FORGET IT".
 
All of my previous AG brews (both of them) :p have been in my 10gal Gott MLT, and I never had a problem maintaining temp in it. I'm a gadgeteer at heart, so the heat loss I experienced was probably more of an excuse to get the RIMS I wanted than anything else. :D

I'm also in the process of making a keggle, and a hop torpedo.
 
Stevo2569 said:
Sorry true statement. I usually mash in a cooler because it is more effecient. But I have mashed in my uninsulated Keggle several times and held temps with no problem with a 1500W element. So the term NOT NEEDED is correct.
Also I saw nothing in the pics or text that suggest this is a direct fire mash tun.

To the OP. I like the bottom drain. I've been pondering doing the same thing with an extra keg. Looks good. Pretty sure depending on power cost in your area and ambient temps there's no need to insulate. What's an extra .25 per brew day on heating element power. But hay it won't hurt. If you haven't already, check out the RIMS for dummies thread. Lots of great info. That's where I got the ideas for my design. Love my Rims and recently added auto-sparge. "Set it AND FORGET IT".
Click to expand...

RIMS does not imply a heated element tube. It only implies that wort is recirculated to maintain even grain beid temps. If you run a stainless vessel that is direct fired you will inevitably lose wort temp which will lead to excess firing as opposed to insulating and thus reducing firing and saving fuel. My point is: you can't make a blanket statement that all RIMS systems do not need insulation without knowing the exact setup.
 
jcaudill said:
RIMS does not imply a heated element tube. It only implies that wort is recirculated to maintain even grain beid temps. If you run a stainless vessel that is direct fired you will inevitably lose wort temp which will lead to excess firing as opposed to insulating and thus reducing firing and saving fuel. My point is: you can't make a blanket statement that all RIMS systems do not need insulation without knowing the exact setup.
Click to expand...

Ok. I'll agree with that. I just assumed the OP was constructing a RIMS like most people with a heat tube. Most people just refer to what you are implying as recirculating.
So JimmyHugh, do you plan on using a heat tube or just recirculating? If your recirculating in a insulated MT without a heat tube i would think you will lose temps unless your hoses and pump are insulated as well. Sense you said temp loses is your excuse to build a RIMS. I assume your using a heat tube.
 
Stevo2569 said:
Ok. I'll agree with that. I just assumed the OP was constructing a RIMS like most people with a heat tube. Most people just refer to what you are implying as recirculating.
So JimmyHugh, do you plan on using a heat tube or just recirculating? If your recirculating in a insulated MT without a heat tube i would think you will lose temps unless your hoses and pump are insulated as well. Sense you said temp loses is your excuse to build a RIMS. I assume your using a heat tube.
Click to expand...

Yup, came in the mail yesterday :ban: . Now I have to order the PID, find the element I want, and get the thermocouple.
 
Bobby_M said:
If we're going to get technical, RIMS doesn't require an insulated tun but I would argue that insulation is a worthwhile endeavor. My furnace could probably keep the house at 70 even with all the windows cracked open but we don't do that.
Click to expand...


It depends how you define 'require'. You can mash in a keggle with no recirc, no stirring and no insulation and you can probably still make good beer. Your mash will lose 10-15 degrees over the hour, but if you start at 160 and it drops to 150, you'd never know anything was 'wrong' with the process.

If you run a RIMS/HERMS/etc. in an uninsulated metal vessel you are going to end up with a bit of a wacky temp profile in the vessel. Insulation will smooth it out considerably. Would you be able to tell a difference in the finished product? I don't know, probably not, but it would certainly pay for itself in energy savings in pretty short order.

In short...agreed.
 
A single wrap of reflectix is quite impressive for heat retention whether you use rims or herms. Since my system is 100% electric Heat retention lets me use less electricity and maintain good temps.
 
I second the wacky temperature profile comment. I have been using an insulated herms systems very close to your setup and for fun I borrowed a 8 channel thermocouple probe from work. I recorded the mash temperatures at various radius and depths to find out what kind of variance there was from my herms output setpoint. It wasn't good... I saw anywhere from 5 to 10 degrees just trying to maintain a mash. Step mashing from a protein rest was even worse.

I insulated my keg and my body issues went away. Step mashing was much more uniform and quicker too.

I found there was some channeling effect with the single fitting on the bottom. I had to play with how I returned the mash to the top of the grain bed to try and improve channeling temperature differences.
 
Yesterday I bought a 24" x 25' roll of reflectix and several rolls of metal tape at Home Depot.

I wrapped the tun with three layers of reflectix, making sure that the seams were in a different location each time. I also cut out several layers for the lid:

DIYInsulatedTun004_720x960.png
DIYInsulatedTun005_720x960.png
 
Nice! It might be worth popping a hole on the cap to bring the rims line through... Another note is to limit the length of the line from your rims chamber to the mash. I insulated mine too with some foam pipe insulation pieces from lowes...
 
stamandster said:
This is almost exactly how I'm gonna do mine. :) How much would did you use to make the stand?
Click to expand...

Check out your nearest lumber store. They probably have a cart or something where they sell short or damaged "culls". Home Depot does at $.51 for any piece, usually cut to 4' or less.
 
Hey Jimmay, could you give me a break down of what you have on the bottom of the keg? Looks like a tri-clover 90 degree elbow with clamp on the sanky valve, then tri-clover ball valve clamped on that? I guess what i'm asking is..What size tri clover fits onto the old sanky valve with out leaking?

I want to make my keggle, and I think it makes since to cut off the bottom and make use of the sanky valve to drain if you are going electric or RIMS
 
clamskittles said:
Hey Jimmay, could you give me a break down of what you have on the bottom of the keg? Looks like a tri-clover 90 degree elbow with clamp on the sanky valve, then tri-clover ball valve clamped on that? I guess what i'm asking is..What size tri clover fits onto the old sanky valve with out leaking?

I want to make my keggle, and I think it makes since to cut off the bottom and make use of the sanky valve to drain if you are going electric or RIMS
Click to expand...

It's all based around 2" Tri-clover fittings. I used a 90 degree elbow, 2 clamps, a 2"x 1/2" NPT, and 2" Silicone gaskets. I then used a 1/2" ball valve and a 1/2" hose barb. The gasket between the keg and 90 degree elbow needs to be shaved flat on the keg side to ensure a tight seal. I'm considering getting a 2" butterfly valve and 2" to 5/8" hose barb to replace the ball valve.
 
Nice build! With the reflectix insulation have you done another water test? I kind of want to replace my cooler with a bottom drain keggle, but not if I have to build a heated RIMS system to do it. Thanks!
 
conpewter said:
Nice build! With the reflectix insulation have you done another water test? I kind of want to replace my cooler with a bottom drain keggle, but not if I have to build a heated RIMS system to do it. Thanks!
Click to expand...

Once again, the water test won't really provide much useful info, since a mash performs much differently than plain water.

FWIW my bottom drain keggle MLT is insulated with 2 layers of reflectix, with the air gap sealed on top and bottom, an insulated lid, and no insulation underneath. I've done 2 mashes in it without recirculating or using my HEX coil. The first time it was filled pretty full with a relatively thick mash, and only lost 1.8F in an hour with ~85F ambient temps. The second time it was only filled ~3/4 full with an average thickness mash, and lost ~3F over the first 60 min, and another 1F after another 15 min, with ~80F ambient temps. I'd bet that it would perform quite a bit better if my keg was rubber coated like the OP's.
 
JuanMoore said:
Once again, the water test won't really provide much useful info, since a mash performs much differently than plain water.
Click to expand...

So if I see a reduction of heat loss over time using the same test as before, it doesn't provide any useful info?? :drunk:

Gotta disagree with you there.

I understand that the thermal mass of a mash is different than plain water, and the heat loss may be different, but a reduction in one should also result in a reduction of the other, just a different ratio. And this way, I don't risk a perfectly good mash. :ban:

BTW, I got the butterfly valve, but could not find a 2" x 1/2" or 5/8" tri-clamp:
TwoInchButterflyValve_720x960.png
 
jimmayhugh said:
So if I see a reduction of heat loss over time using the same test as before, it doesn't provide any useful info?? :drunk:

Gotta disagree with you there.
Click to expand...

I didn't say any, I said much, and it was in response to someone wanting to know if a reflectix wrapped keggle will hold heat well enough to not require any external heat source, which a water test won't determine. I thknk you should do a water test to see how much different it is, because it's cheap, easy, and as you mentioned it won't risk a mash. The results of that test however aren't going to be much help in answering the question I was responding to.
 
Was testing my electrical system and RIMS setup today, and after I was done I left the 125 degree water in the MLT. An hour later, the temp had dropped 5 degrees, two hours later, the temp had dropped 12 degrees.

So it looks like the reflectix was worthwhile. :rockin:
 

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