First lager attempt with limited ingredients

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jangelj

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OK, I have made several batches of ales (fantastic!), but want to play aroung with lagering. I will have access to a full sized refrigerator all summer while my mother-in-law is out of town. I'd like to build a recipe using ingredients on hand (except the yeast, I'll buy that). I'll do a 5 gal. batch.

Here's what I have on hand:

Extra Light DME (lots)
Crystal 60L (lots)
Chocolate Malt (~.6 lb)
Black Malt (~.6 lb)
Fuggle Hops (1 lb)
Cascade hops (1 lb)

With a full sized fridge, I can ferment at whatever temp I want, so what yeast and temp should I use?

Thanks a lot!
 
This is similar to a schwartzbeir I brewed all grain, which came out delicious.
I used about 3.5lbs of munich in mine though, and would reccomend you buy and use some munich extract(2.5-lbs. if you can get it) in place of 2.5lbs of DME. It will be good w/o the munich, but--hell everything is better with munich in it. Not sure of your boil volumes so I didn't calc. the weight of the hops. I have to brew this again--wife says it tastes like her chocolate silk coffee.


LB OZ Malt or Fermentable ppg °L

81% 6 lbs. Light Dry Extract (or 4lbs DME, 2.5lbs munich extract)

10% 12oz. Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L

5% 6oz. Chocolate Malt (US)

3% 4oz. Black (Patent) Malt (I used carafa II)

22 IBUs fuggles @ 60mins. (I used hallertau)

Yeast- 2 pkgs. W-34/70 dry or wlp 830 pitched and fermented @ 50F. 6qt.(3X3 stepped) starter for liquid yeast.
Lager 4 weeks @ 36F

Bottle w/ 1/2 cup table sugar priming mix.
Batch size: 5.5 gallons (to account for trub loss)
 
I'd double check the temperature of your fridge. There is no fridge I know of that can be set to keep it at 50 degrees without an external controller. My fridge, at the highest setting, only goes up into the low to mid 40s. I think my highest reading was 44 with the fridge on the highest setting.
 
Is it possible to ferment at 44 (or whatever is the highest temp I can get from that fridge) for a longer period? Say 5 weeks at 44 instead of 3 at 50? Or maybe use a different yeast that works at lower temps? Since this won't be at my house, I want to make it as "set it and forget it" possible.

john
 
Your yeast would crap out at that temp. before they finished the job. I thought you had a controller. You can always use a swamp cooler and frozen water bottles.
 
I can't think of any lager yeast strains off of the top of my head that work well under about 48 degrees. If you make a huge starter, it might be possible but I wouldn't attempt it without being able to get the correct fermentation temperatures. You could try putting the fridge on the highest setting for a couple of days and see what it reads. Maybe you'll get lucky and it'll be 48-50 degrees.
 
I put my 20 year old mini fridge on the lowest setting and it made it to 60, dialed it back up a bit and hit the sweet spot for my 2 gallon Rauchbeer which is currently lagering at 34 in the same fridge. I think you should give it a go and see what you can get out of the fridge, get a decent thermometer and after you've warmed the fridge up leave it in for an hour then give it a check.
 
T-stats on fridges are limited (all that I've played with) to just above 40 degrees. There is a calibration screw on the t-stat but I didn't have much luck with the one unit I toyed with. Best bet is to build or buy an external t-stat.
 
I can't think of any lager yeast strains off of the top of my head that work well under about 48 degrees. If you make a huge starter, it might be possible but I wouldn't attempt it without being able to get the correct fermentation temperatures. You could try putting the fridge on the highest setting for a couple of days and see what it reads. Maybe you'll get lucky and it'll be 48-50 degrees.

I just bought a Johnson Control a19 on ebay, so I should be able to set and hold fermentation temps.
Question about the yeast. I'll probably just use 2 packs W 34/70 as recommended. Can I wash and store that yeast when the beer is done? Is it the same process as ale yeast?
Last question (for now): After I pitch the yeast, I want to ferment at 53 deg until I reach my FG, then warm it up for a couple of days, then lager 4 weeks at 36F? Is that right? Do I need to rack to a secondary to lager? I don't usually use a secondary for my ales, mostly out of laziness I suppose.
thanks,
John
 
I just bought a Johnson Control a19 on ebay, so I should be able to set and hold fermentation temps.
Question about the yeast. I'll probably just use 2 packs W 34/70 as recommended. Can I wash and store that yeast when the beer is done? Is it the same process as ale yeast?
Last question (for now): After I pitch the yeast, I want to ferment at 53 deg until I reach my FG, then warm it up for a couple of days, then lager 4 weeks at 36F? Is that right? Do I need to rack to a secondary to lager? I don't usually use a secondary for my ales, mostly out of laziness I suppose.
thanks,
John

Yes, it can be washed. I have washed w-34 in the fridge right now.

For the D-rest, I like to watch the airlock for signs of a slow down. When I see it, I take a grav. reading. If it's down around 1.020 or lower, I will start the rest. This ensures that the yeast will finish strong and you will have no worries of phenols that late in the fermentation. By the time the beer warms to room temp--the fermentation is over.

For secondary--yes you need to. I agree with Greg Noonan (who knew a crapload more than me) in that homebrewers leave lagers on the cake for too long. As per his suggestions, when the beer has dropped clear, rack to secondary. I usually leave it on the cake for a couple days after it has cleared--just to be sure. Good luck and welcome to lagers--a test of patience.
 
Here's some inspiration. Mmm, creamy and chocolatey.
BL.jpg
 
You could also try for a kolsch ale, obviously not a lager but you could ferment at ale temps then lager it out and pretend it's a lager
 
This is similar to a schwartzbeir I brewed all grain, which came out delicious.
I used about 3.5lbs of munich in mine though, and would reccomend you buy and use some munich extract(2.5-lbs. if you can get it) in place of 2.5lbs of DME. It will be good w/o the munich, but--hell everything is better with munich in it. Not sure of your boil volumes so I didn't calc. the weight of the hops. I have to brew this again--wife says it tastes like her chocolate silk coffee.


LB OZ Malt or Fermentable ppg °L

81% 6 lbs. Light Dry Extract (or 4lbs DME, 2.5lbs munich extract)

10% 12oz. Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L

5% 6oz. Chocolate Malt (US)

3% 4oz. Black (Patent) Malt (I used carafa II)

22 IBUs fuggles @ 60mins. (I used hallertau)

Yeast- 2 pkgs. W-34/70 dry or wlp 830 pitched and fermented @ 50F. 6qt.(3X3 stepped) starter for liquid yeast.
Lager 4 weeks @ 36F

Bottle w/ 1/2 cup table sugar priming mix.
Batch size: 5.5 gallons (to account for trub loss)

I am going to brew this this weekend. I am going to use this recipe. couple questions, first why no late addition hops?
Also, I won't be able to get any Munich, but is there anything I can add to this recipe that I can get at a grocery store? Maybe brown rice syrup? Honey?
 
No late hops b/c this beer just doesn't need them. It's all about chocolate/coffee flavors.
W/O using munich, I would bump up the C-60 to 1.25lbs. I would not add anything else--especially sugar or honey. Either one of those will dry it out.

Wait till you smell this during the boil. Amazing!
 
No late hops b/c this beer just doesn't need them. It's all about chocolate/coffee flavors.
W/O using munich, I would bump up the C-60 to 1.25lbs. I would not add anything else--especially sugar or honey. Either one of those will dry it out.

Wait till you smell this during the boil. Amazing!

now that i think about it, this is very, very similiar to the stout kit from morebeer. very similiar, except for the yeast/fermentation process.
 
now that i think about it, this is very, very similiar to the stout kit from morebeer. very similiar, except for the yeast/fermentation process.

It's doesn't have that burnt bite of stout. Think of a mild porter with no esters from fermentation. Reference SA black Lager or Kostritzer Schwartzbier.
 
It's doesn't have that burnt bite of stout. Think of a mild porter with no esters from fermentation. Reference SA black Lager or Kostritzer Schwartzbier.

Man,you're making me drool. Sounds fantastic. Here is the stout I made that is very similiar...http://morebeer.com/view_product/18342//Stout-_Extract

Mods, if it is not OK to put this link, please delete, and sorry.

this kit has 1 lb crystal, 8 oz black roasted, 4 oz black patent and 4 oz chocolate. 1 oz glacier at 60, 1 oz cascade at 1 minute. it was actually very good, but took a few weeks after I kegged it to really come together.

BTW, what is the difference between balck patent and black roasted?
 
Roasted barley gives stout it's acrid "bite"

For schwartzbier you should actually use Carafa, b/c it's milder than black patent, but at the small amount you are going to use, I don't think it'll matter too much.
 
BTW, what is the difference between balck patent and black roasted?

Patent has been malted before roasting. BRB is raw barley before it's roasted. There are some striking flavor differences. BRB is what makes a stout a stout and Patent is what makes a porter a porter (broadly speaking).
 
This is similar to a schwartzbeir I brewed all grain, which came out delicious.
I used about 3.5lbs of munich in mine though, and would reccomend you buy and use some munich extract(2.5-lbs. if you can get it) in place of 2.5lbs of DME. It will be good w/o the munich, but--hell everything is better with munich in it. Not sure of your boil volumes so I didn't calc. the weight of the hops. I have to brew this again--wife says it tastes like her chocolate silk coffee.


LB OZ Malt or Fermentable ppg °L

81% 6 lbs. Light Dry Extract (or 4lbs DME, 2.5lbs munich extract)

10% 12oz. Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L

5% 6oz. Chocolate Malt (US)

3% 4oz. Black (Patent) Malt (I used carafa II)

22 IBUs fuggles @ 60mins. (I used hallertau)

Yeast- 2 pkgs. W-34/70 dry or wlp 830 pitched and fermented @ 50F. 6qt.(3X3 stepped) starter for liquid yeast.
Lager 4 weeks @ 36F

Bottle w/ 1/2 cup table sugar priming mix.
Batch size: 5.5 gallons (to account for trub loss)

OK, brewed this today. accidentally used 1.5 lb of crystal 50-60L. used 1.75 oz fuggles at 60 and .25 at 5 min (couldn't resist). sorry. Also didn't have any wlp830, used wlp800. it's in the fridge at 58 deg. will lower to 50 tomorrow. pitched at ~65F. SG was 1.050

BTW, you long at 50F will this take to ferment (more or less). 4 weeks, 5 weeks?

thanks!
 
With a proper sized starter, it will be done w/in 10 days. How big was your starter?

Also, pitching lager yeast @ 65F defeats the purpose of making a lager. By the time it cools down, esters that shouldn't be in a lager have already been produced.

If I can't get one cool enough w/ my chiller, I put it in the fridge until it has cooled to the proper pitching temp--~50f, (usually overnight) and then pitch.

It will still be good, but will have more esters (out of style for lager) than it should.
 
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