A little off topic, but what is the "reinstatgebolt" (sorry, had to), and what in it stops you from force carbonating (that's the serious part of the question)?
Reinheitsgebot
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DirtyMcCurdy
Well-Known Member
There's something fundamentally wrong with a reinheitsgebot brewer who makes milk stouts, pumpkin ales, and peach wheats. ;-)
OP
OP
Yeah I think he was actually referring to "real ale" not this so-called "reinstatgebolt".
Kerberbb
Well-Known Member
The Reinstatgebolt is a 500 yr old german purity law, stating that beer may contain onlyl 4 ingredients: Malted Barley, Hops, Yeast & Water. Therefore, no force carbing, and you cannot use corn sugar. However you can use DME. Which I actually believe for these "simple" beers produces a better finished product. Obviously, there are certain styles that lean themselves to the Reinstatgebolt. I follow it for mainly german styles for this reason. I do not however follow it for every beer I brew. I should have stated the previous comment better. I do not force carb anymore because I have 40 kegs lined up, and although I have a 35lb tank its too much to keep track of on a daily basis. Dirty, thanks for reminding me I need to update my sig.
philrose
Well-Known Member
dude, he was just messing with you. I'm not sure you're getting the joke...
OP
OP
I was only kidding...... you butchered the spelling.
But seriously, I've never heard anyone interpret it to mean you can't force carbonate. Real Ale, yes, but not the reinheitsgebot.
... you butchered the spelling. But seriously, I've never heard anyone interpret it to mean you can't force carbonate. Real Ale, yes, but not the reinheitsgebot.
philrose
Well-Known Member
I was only kidding...
But seriously, I've never heard anyone interpret it to mean you can't force carbonate. Real Ale, yes, but not the reinheitsgebot.
I thought thats why they krausened most reinheitsgebot beers?
DirtyMcCurdy
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't think that force carbing is against the Reinheitsgebot, as the CO2 isn't an "ingredient" in the beer. I guess that depends on your definition of "ingredient."
If you follow the reinheitsgebot, then why deviate from it when it suits your needs? The thing about a law is that it's a law. You can't say you follow it if you deviate from it. I'm not trying to be a dick; I'm just extremely anti-reinheitsgebot. It's my firm belief that something that limits creativity in brewing is not something that any self-respecting brewer should stand behind anyway.
If you follow the reinheitsgebot, then why deviate from it when it suits your needs? The thing about a law is that it's a law. You can't say you follow it if you deviate from it. I'm not trying to be a dick; I'm just extremely anti-reinheitsgebot. It's my firm belief that something that limits creativity in brewing is not something that any self-respecting brewer should stand behind anyway.
Kerberbb
Well-Known Member
MOD EDIT: Split from another thread.
The type of lid you are referring to is commonly called a type 3. It has an automatic pressure release at like 125psi. As previously stated the best and easiest way to release pressure is on the gas side. I like these mainly because I follow the reinstatgebolt, using DME in the keg. The pull release on lid is just one more place for infection to hide or for a potential leak to arise.
The type of lid you are referring to is commonly called a type 3. It has an automatic pressure release at like 125psi. As previously stated the best and easiest way to release pressure is on the gas side. I like these mainly because I follow the reinstatgebolt, using DME in the keg. The pull release on lid is just one more place for infection to hide or for a potential leak to arise.
philrose
Well-Known Member
I disagree, I think it just makes brewers creative in different ways. Modifying a process to reach the same end as adding some random ingredient is a very creative way to reach a solution.
I'm not a reinheitsgebot brewer either, but I do think it helped advance brewing in the long run.
But I feel ya on the purity law extremists out there, chill out people! We're making beer, its supposed to be fun and creative.
philrose
Well-Known Member
nice work splitting the thread mods
arturo7
Well-Known Member
I completely disagree with this statement. This is akin saying color photographers are more creative than black and white photographers because color photographers have a wider palate.
HairyDogBrewing
Well-Known Member
The Reinheitsgebot had more to do with taxes and the price of bread than beer purity.
It does have a certain attraction from the Keep It Simple Stupid viewpoint,
but nowadays it is more of a marketing gimmick.
For homebrewers, force carbing and corn sugar are the two easiest methods of carbonating your beer.
Use kreusen, gyle, or dme if you must; but you're just making it harder on yourself for little or no discernable effect.
It does have a certain attraction from the Keep It Simple Stupid viewpoint,
but nowadays it is more of a marketing gimmick.
For homebrewers, force carbing and corn sugar are the two easiest methods of carbonating your beer.
Use kreusen, gyle, or dme if you must; but you're just making it harder on yourself for little or no discernable effect.
OP
OP
+1 Hairydogbrewing... it was about taxes, plain and simple. I'm reading "Prost!" right now, and it gives a detailed explanation about the reinheitsgebot which lays out exactly why the dual-dukes instated it.
Kerberbb
Well-Known Member
I dunno what I was on last night, its been rough lately. Alot of irons in the fire. Sorry about the spelling. I see it both ways actually. I do think Hairydogbrewing is on to something. Most things are about money. Isn't this why turbid mashing was invented/used?
OP
OP
Yeah I believe that was because of taxing the size of the mash tun as opposed to the finished product so they figured out a way to mash a smaller volume.
eriktlupus
Well-Known Member
not even the germans all followed it though. how do you think weiss beir came about? reinheitsgebot was about taxes and about only being able to label bier a bier if it followed the rules anything else had to be clearly labeled as being such.
if by turbid you mean the belgian decotion mashing technique then yes the belgian government taxed the brewers according to the size of their mashtuns. in order to create more complex beers they developed this method for use in their smaller tuns.
OP
OP
The wheat beers at the time were brewed exclusively by the ruling family, which is why they issued the law to begin with. It cemented their status as the only ones who could brew with wheat!
DevilsCreekBrewing
Well-Known Member
I don't brew anything to the Reinheitsgebot, but I am sure that I will at some point.
I disagree that it is a limiter to brewers today as well. I think that it will shift focus, much in the way that SmaSh brewing does. It will certainly highlight flaws in the process, but this may actually help the homebrewer improve overall.
I find it amazing that the German brewers were able to get the complex flavours that they could without the adjuncts used by many of their Belgian peers.
I disagree that it is a limiter to brewers today as well. I think that it will shift focus, much in the way that SmaSh brewing does. It will certainly highlight flaws in the process, but this may actually help the homebrewer improve overall.
I find it amazing that the German brewers were able to get the complex flavours that they could without the adjuncts used by many of their Belgian peers.
moosetav
Well-Known Member
The Rienheitsgebot was instituted not only to control beer quality and taxes, but also to stretch the food supply. A pound of barley makes much more beer than it does bread. A pound of wheat makes more bread that it does beer. By saying that you can only use barley in beer, they were making sure they got the most from their food supply. Of course there were those who decided to brew weizens etc, but often those were in the good times. The law also stipulated the price of beer. It was meant to ensure a patron received a proper ration for the money he spent. Again, it was about nutrition. People often look at the Reinheitsgebot as a single faceted law based on greed & pride, but in fact, there was a lot more to it than meets the eye. Also, there was no force carbing back in the day. As long as the end product doesn't suffer, I don't think they'd have cared. Many large breweries krausen now because it's become part of their recipe and tradition, not so much because it's against the Reinheitsgebot.
Ketchepillar
Well-Known Member
I disagree both with your example and more importantly, with your point. This example would suggest that anti-reihensgebeiterstein people want all beers to include ingredients beyond the 4, as that is the "color" to your photograph. And this doesn't seem to be the case at all. I think most would argue that a brewer can be creative while following rehiengeborgget (black and white), but can also dip into other ingredients (color) in brewing as well.
Babylon
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Originally it didn't allow yeast either, since they didn't know that was what made beer ferment back then. I am pretty sure that is the only change that has been introduced in the history of the law. Personally I am not against it per se, I don't think there is anything wrong with a beer being labeled as in compliance with it, as an extra selling point, and it certainly spurs innovation. However having it as a national law in Germany is something I cannot, in any way, support. There's too many good beers made from other things. Also, I don't think malt is restricted to malted barley, as there are some very good German Wheat beers.
arturo7
Well-Known Member
Ketch, I think you missed my point. The post that I disagreed with suggested that Reinheitsgebot stifles creativity.
Yankeehillbrewer
Well-Known Member
Reinheitsgebot is no longer in effect, though many breweries over there still follow it. There is a new law, Can't remember the name, but it allows for a wider variety of ingredients. I believe its in the Wiki.
remilard
Well-Known Member
Synovia
Well-Known Member
No, its not like that at all.
its like saying that forcing photographers to only use black and white film limits their ability to be creating, which I don't think anyone would disagree with.
shroomzofdoom
Well-Known Member
Reinheitsgebot, shmenheitsgebot....just make damn some good beer.
Most American brewers don't follow the German Beer Purity law and most American brewers could care less.
Anything with the words German and Purity in it should be looked on suspiciously; especially since the original intent was not to protect consumers, but to protect the German beer market from external influences and to ensure the hegemony of barley in beer, over lower cost wheat and rye alternatives of the day.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinheitsgebot
Most American brewers don't follow the German Beer Purity law and most American brewers could care less.
Anything with the words German and Purity in it should be looked on suspiciously; especially since the original intent was not to protect consumers, but to protect the German beer market from external influences and to ensure the hegemony of barley in beer, over lower cost wheat and rye alternatives of the day.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinheitsgebot
elkdog
Well-Known Member
Belgian and English beers very often would not fall under the Reinheitsgebot, so I'm not sure what sort of value should be placed on it in brewing practice. I think too much has been made of it by German brewers who would like you to think that the beer is somehow more beer-y or carries more beerly essence because they follow Reinheitsgebot. It's handy marketing, and could push for more creativity with malts, but to equate that to superior brewing is, well, convenient marketing.
I don't think we should disregard it; simple recipes are very often the best, and learning brewing techniques rather than short cuts will pay off in the long run, but ultimately the proof is in the pint glass. If sugars, spices, fruit, or other adjuncts make the beer taste good, I'm cool with that.
I don't think we should disregard it; simple recipes are very often the best, and learning brewing techniques rather than short cuts will pay off in the long run, but ultimately the proof is in the pint glass. If sugars, spices, fruit, or other adjuncts make the beer taste good, I'm cool with that.
annasdadhockey
Well-Known Member
Can we get a ruling here on the spelling, please?
springer
Well-Known Member
Reinheitsgebot was nullified in 1987 . So if you want to brew to its standards go ahead but its no longer a law.
archiefl98
Well-Known Member
Reihenzeitsetlgeisternsinborschtd.
HairyDogBrewing
Well-Known Member
Gesundheit!
annasdadhockey
Well-Known Member
I thought that was it.
arturo7
Well-Known Member
Synovia, just want to make sure I understand your comment. To continue our color/b&w analogy, are you implying that color photography is more creative than black and white?
DevilsCreekBrewing
Well-Known Member
I take that to read being FORCED to use only B&W would be the creativity limiter. The difference lies in the choice to use whatever method or material you want. That is exactly how I feel about the Reinheitsgebot.
arturo7
Well-Known Member
That point is moot. A medium is a medium, whether it's use is by choice or necessity.
Ask yourself what brewing would be like if brewers were forced into only using Lager Yeast.
arturo7
Well-Known Member
I love how people are getting so bent out of shape over this. If you are so Ant-Reinheitsgebot that you find it offensive, then don't live in Germany between 1516 and 1993. Just realize it served a purpose, and the result is some great beer. The Law had no effect on the creativity of Beer everywhere else in the world, it just forced those in Germany to become Very creative in Their regional style of beer.
Lets face it, if the Mega Brews of the US made their lagers under the rules of the Reinheitsgebot, I might Actually drink it (doubtful tho).
Thats not saying i wish ALL brewers followed it, just that i agree with the OP that if your making a German style Lager its cool if you follow the Reinheitsgebot , and get creative with in its exicution.
Lets face it, if the Mega Brews of the US made their lagers under the rules of the Reinheitsgebot, I might Actually drink it (doubtful tho).
Thats not saying i wish ALL brewers followed it, just that i agree with the OP that if your making a German style Lager its cool if you follow the Reinheitsgebot , and get creative with in its exicution.
Exactly. Not the best situation if you like Ales better.
It's sort of like saying, "You can only make furniture out of Cherry." Because they controlled the Cherry trees. Sure, Cherry is a fine wood for furniture, but perhaps your tastes prefer Oak or Pine better. So maybe the furniture makers would learn how to make better-looking, or sturdier furniture out of Cherry, but it's still not the same as making it out of Oak or Pine.
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