Partigyle IPA Experiment

I got on to this idea after reading this thread lead me to the idea of doing a partigyle DIPA and re-using the late addition hops from the big beer to hop the small beer(s).

I started working up a 2 batch grain bill, but I feel the small beer is too small to utilize the amount of hops that will be left over from the first batch even if they have been partially utilized. So now I'm thinking it needs to be a 3 run-off event.

I'll post back with a recipe draft when I have one.

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Jakemo said:

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+1. Ive only done 4 all-grain but the partigyle aspect just fascinates the crap out of me. Were you thinking like DIPA for big and APA for small?

I've been on a partigyle kick lately. I am doing a doppelbock/alt this winter and drew up the recipe for a rye saison/rye pale ale partigyle as well, which I may revisit this spring.

The big beer is definitely going to be a DIPA. I've been fiddling around with grain bills looking at different split batch scenarios. I'm having a hard time coming up with the gravity ranges that I want. I think I'm going to have to sit down and do some calculations and settle on differing batch sizes for each beer in order to get closer to my desired gravity.

The goal is to make a DIPA that is in line with a recipe I already have and then get 1 or 2 more batches of pale ale of some variety that utilize the leftover hops from the big beer. I think it will end up being a DIPA and an APA. I was thinking DIPA, APA, Bitter initially, but it seems like, in order to get a reasonable Bitter out of the third runnings would make the big beer a Barleywine realistically.

When you say using leftover hops, do you mean taking hops in say, knockout, and using those as the 60M addition for the next batch?

FWIW, you can also perform a mini-mash if you want. Mash some specialty grains that you'd want in one beer but not in the other with a handful of six row, then add that to the boil.

dougdecinces said:

When you say using leftover hops, do you mean taking hops in say, knockout, and using those as the 60M addition for the next batch?

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Yup. The hypothesis is that if you use a huge amount of late addition whole hops (say 8oz or so at <20mins) that they will still have plenty of unutilized acids and oils available to use in the next batch. Risky business to say the least, but an interesting experiment.

JuanKenobi said:

Risky business to say the least, but an interesting experiment.

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I may be misunderstanding, but I don't see why you think it is "risky" (?) It seems smart to me.

In researching partigyles I seem to recall lots of breweries doing that. {*yes, found it: http://www.brewingtechniques.com/library/backissues/issue2.2/mosher.html

If it were me, I'd use whole leaf hops, just because the pellet sludge in the bottom of my BK seems hard to work with.

midfielder5 said:

I may be misunderstanding, but I don't see why you think it is "risky" (?) It seems smart to me.

In researching partigyles I seem to recall lots of breweries doing that. {*yes, found it: http://www.brewingtechniques.com/library/backissues/issue2.2/mosher.html

If it were me, I'd use whole leaf hops, just because the pellet sludge in the bottom of my BK seems hard to work with.

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Great article. I'm using the equations Mosher discusses to figure out how to split the batch. I like that he gives you the method you need to work backwards from your desired gravities and volumes to calculate the master batch gravity. I think it will be key in doing this the way I have in mind. I really don't want to fuss with dilution/extra long boils.

In theory it shouldn't be that hard to estimate the hop utilization from the first batch and be able to at least guestimate how bitter the small beer will be. The 'risky' comment is just that it is an experiment and I won't be sure what kind of hop character to expect out of the small beer. Especially since all the hops will be mixed together coming out of the kettle. On the other hand, I find it's pretty hard to make truly bad beer so...

Absolutely going to be all whole hops. Even though I can't think of a reason why using the sludge wouldn't work just the same if it's coming out of a hop bag, it just seems gross. Plus I have a couple pounds of whole hops from last year that I need to use.

Man, experiments are where it is at. I say go for it and let us know how it all turns out. I'm pretty stoked about the whole partyguile idea and I'd love to hear of your results. I mean what's the worst case? You still end up with 2 or 3 tasty beers whether they are what you planned or not?

I just did my first partigyle (DIPA and Blonde) loved it and am looking to do it about every other brew. The whole late hop and then reusing the hops is VERY interesting. I am always looking for new ways to save some money when brewing. I would use hop bags that way you could contain them and just transfer the bag into the next boil kettle( I use two kettles).

Phunhog said:

I just did my first partigyle (DIPA and Blonde) loved it and am looking to do it about every other brew. The whole late hop and then reusing the hops is VERY interesting. I am always looking for new ways to save some money when brewing. I would use hop bags that way you could contain them and just transfer the bag into the next boil kettle( I use two kettles).

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Nice! My first partigyle didn't work out so well. The big beer was fine, but the gravity of the small beer was really low (like 1.020) and it had a tough astringency that didn't go away.

Part of the reason I'm back on the horse is that I'm in the process of upgrading to 10gal batches so now I have 2 kettles and will shortly have a new mash tun and another burner.

I have a hop bag like this one that works really well:

JuanKenobi said:

Great article. I'm using the equations Mosher discusses to figure out how to split the batch. I like that he gives you the method you need to work backwards from your desired gravities and volumes to calculate the master batch gravity. I think it will be key in doing this the way I have in mind. I really don't want to fuss with dilution/extra long boils.

In theory it shouldn't be that hard to estimate the hop utilization from the first batch and be able to at least guestimate how bitter the small beer will be. The 'risky' comment is just that it is an experiment and I won't be sure what kind of hop character to expect out of the small beer. Especially since all the hops will be mixed together coming out of the kettle. On the other hand, I find it's pretty hard to make truly bad beer so...

Absolutely going to be all whole hops. Even though I can't think of a reason why using the sludge wouldn't work just the same if it's coming out of a hop bag, it just seems gross. Plus I have a couple pounds of whole hops from last year that I need to use.

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So what do you think you're shooting for? 1.030, 1.050, 1.100? I'm gonna have to read that article, very interesting stuff.

Like I said I have only done 1 partigyle but one thing that I recommend is too pick a "big" beer like a DIPA, Tripel, BGSA, etc... that you can use some table sugar to help boost the gravity. That allows you to less first runnings in the big beer and keep it for the small beer. My DIPA was 1.082 and the Blonde was 1.054, much higher than I thought either one was going to be.

Phunhog said:

Like I said I have only done 1 partigyle but one thing that I recommend is too pick a "big" beer like a DIPA, Tripel, BGSA, etc... that you can use some table sugar to help boost the gravity. That allows you to less first runnings in the big beer and keep it for the small beer. My DIPA was 1.082 and the Blonde was 1.054, much higher than I thought either one was going to be.

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This is the conclusion that I've come to as well. Run off less for the DIPA so that I can still do a sugar addition without driving the gravity up too high. I'd like to have the big beer come in at 8.5% - 9% ABV, but would also like to have the small beer come in in the 1.050 - 1.055 range. I'm having a difficult time predicting gravities that are x%, y% rather than the halves or thirds split that Mosher gives the tables for. I thought that I could use the equations that he gives in that article to "backwards engineer" the master batch, but I can't get my head around it. I'm sure there is a way to accurately predict any give split. I just haven't found it yet.

@Jakemo At this point I think I've settled on a 2 batch split with the first being a DIPA that is as close to my stand alone recipe as I can get and then a solid APA.

After looking over the article, it does seem like a triple partigyle would be very difficult do to. Looks like he has to use twice as much sparge water to get half as much sugar in his second runoff.

Best of luck to ya!