Starter Benefits
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D_Struct
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By using a starter, you will be able to feel better about your yeast viability (i.e. worries about stalled fermentation, etc.).
By getting the yeast started, you'll get healthier, more active fermentation, as well.
By getting the yeast started, you'll get healthier, more active fermentation, as well.
mojotele
Well-Known Member
D_Struct
Well-Known Member
/\/\ This
It's really a good idea to make starters when using ANY liguid yeast, smack pack, tube, or the jar of washed at the back of your fridge, for all beers above 1.020 OG...
The biggest reason I suggest folks make a starter is if you make one you'll have peace of mind.
And you won't be starting an "is my yeast dead" thread in a couple of days. (Which then one of us will answer with...."Had you made a starter..."
Making a starter first insures that your yeast is still alive and viable before you dump it in your beer. You will be less likely to start one of those "is my yeast dead?" threads that are on here every day.
You will also ensure that you have enough yeast usually the tubes and smack packs are a lot less yeast that you really should use for healthy fermentation.
Making a starter also usually means your beer will take off sooner, because the first thing that the little buggers do in the presence of wort (whether in a flask or in a fermenter) is have an orgy to reproduce enough cells to do the job...So it won't take such a long time in the fermenter since they started doing it in the flask.
Additionally it is better for the yeast to consume and reproduce incrementally rather than just dumping them into the fermenter...The yeast will be less stressed out than if you just dump them in.
Stressed out yeast can lead to a lot of off flavors...maybe even (though rare) the dreaded autolysis....Or the curse of 1.030....getting a stuck fermentation because the yeast have bit the dust.
So making a starter proves your yeast is still healthy, allows you to grow enough yeast to do the job, cuts down on lag time, and ensures that you will not get off flavors or stuck ferementations from stressed out yeast.
Also has to do with the actual pitch rates of the smack packs and tubes, and has to do with the data that Jamil Z has on his mr malty website.
I'll quote some of it, but really you should look at the stuff there;
http://www.mrmalty.com/pitching.php
But to make it easier he has a great pitch rate calculator http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html
And according to his numbers on his calculator, really any beer above 1.020, you should be making a starter for.
Me personally when I use liquid yeast I just make a starter. I may not be as anal as some brewers and makes sure that I have the exact cellcount for whatever gravity beer I am making, but I do make one for the above reasons I mentioned, namely peace of mid, and a reduction in lag time.
Seriously, that's one way to insure you have clean tasting beer, not to stress out or underpitch your yeast.
The biggest reason I suggest folks make a starter is if you make one you'll have peace of mind.
And you won't be starting an "is my yeast dead" thread in a couple of days. (Which then one of us will answer with...."Had you made a starter..."
Making a starter first insures that your yeast is still alive and viable before you dump it in your beer. You will be less likely to start one of those "is my yeast dead?" threads that are on here every day.
You will also ensure that you have enough yeast usually the tubes and smack packs are a lot less yeast that you really should use for healthy fermentation.
Making a starter also usually means your beer will take off sooner, because the first thing that the little buggers do in the presence of wort (whether in a flask or in a fermenter) is have an orgy to reproduce enough cells to do the job...So it won't take such a long time in the fermenter since they started doing it in the flask.
Additionally it is better for the yeast to consume and reproduce incrementally rather than just dumping them into the fermenter...The yeast will be less stressed out than if you just dump them in.
Stressed out yeast can lead to a lot of off flavors...maybe even (though rare) the dreaded autolysis....Or the curse of 1.030....getting a stuck fermentation because the yeast have bit the dust.
So making a starter proves your yeast is still healthy, allows you to grow enough yeast to do the job, cuts down on lag time, and ensures that you will not get off flavors or stuck ferementations from stressed out yeast.
Also has to do with the actual pitch rates of the smack packs and tubes, and has to do with the data that Jamil Z has on his mr malty website.
I'll quote some of it, but really you should look at the stuff there;
http://www.mrmalty.com/pitching.php
But to make it easier he has a great pitch rate calculator http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html
And according to his numbers on his calculator, really any beer above 1.020, you should be making a starter for.
Me personally when I use liquid yeast I just make a starter. I may not be as anal as some brewers and makes sure that I have the exact cellcount for whatever gravity beer I am making, but I do make one for the above reasons I mentioned, namely peace of mid, and a reduction in lag time.
Seriously, that's one way to insure you have clean tasting beer, not to stress out or underpitch your yeast.
i read a post earlier where someone quoted the owner of White Labs Yeast as saying that, when using White Labs liquid yeast, unless you make a starter of a half gallon or more, it doesn't increase the yeast count, it just takes them from dormant to active state.
so, that really makes me wonder if there is a bunch of misinformation and misunderstanding about cell counts and starters. another thing i have heard is that the quality of older liquid yeast may be questionable, so a starter may help in that case. check the born on date.
so, that really makes me wonder if there is a bunch of misinformation and misunderstanding about cell counts and starters. another thing i have heard is that the quality of older liquid yeast may be questionable, so a starter may help in that case. check the born on date.
devilishprune
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Via Mr.Malty,
Q: I’ve heard that too small or too large a starter can be bad for the yeast. How is that possible?
Parker says putting a fresh vial of yeast into 500 ml of wort and letting such a small starter go to completion can actually leave the yeast less ready to ferment a batch of beer. The yeast do not rebuild their reserves and have very little increase in cell mass.
The minimum starter size for significant yeast growth from a vial or pack of yeast is 1 liter. One vial or pack into 1 liter results in approximately a 50% increase in cell mass.
Some brewers make a small starter volume (500 ml or less) with the sole intent of “waking” the yeast. When making small starters, it is best to pitch the entire volume at the height of activity.
I don't think that there is (that much) misinformation regarding starters and cell count. I mean, you can see more yeast after than you put in initially, so that's something.
Q: I’ve heard that too small or too large a starter can be bad for the yeast. How is that possible?
Parker says putting a fresh vial of yeast into 500 ml of wort and letting such a small starter go to completion can actually leave the yeast less ready to ferment a batch of beer. The yeast do not rebuild their reserves and have very little increase in cell mass.
The minimum starter size for significant yeast growth from a vial or pack of yeast is 1 liter. One vial or pack into 1 liter results in approximately a 50% increase in cell mass.
Some brewers make a small starter volume (500 ml or less) with the sole intent of “waking” the yeast. When making small starters, it is best to pitch the entire volume at the height of activity.
I don't think that there is (that much) misinformation regarding starters and cell count. I mean, you can see more yeast after than you put in initially, so that's something.
Schnitzengiggle
Well-Known Member
I somewhat agree with your first statement, if you are using a new vial or smack pack and aren't making a starter of at least 2 liter or 1/2 gallon, I don't see the benefits. I think your cell count would rise with a 1 liter starter, but not significantly enough to make a large difference during fermentation.
Now if you are making a starter from washed yeast, then all of the benefits can be gained from amking a starter the most prominent of all viability (knowing your yeast is still alive).
Schnitzengiggle
Well-Known Member
If you are pitching onto a fresh yeast cake that you just racked your beer off of, then you will more than likely be overpitching, unless you are tossing a really big brew on there.
One has to remember that all of the yeast in a yeast cake is not alive. During the 2-4 weeks of fermentation some cells die off, and I would assume some of those dead cells are actually consumed and metabolized.
Either way, there is a large mass of cells in a cake, so in a sense it does apply to pitching onto a yeast cake. However, the yeast on the cake will have some amount of trub and protiens, and other particulate matter in it, and unlike a starter, the yeast cells were not grown under the conditions to grow only healthy yeast, such as a starter. Hence the reason for the lower gravity wort for starters, and slightly warmer temperatures for the aerobic growth phase compared to fermentation temperatures.
