Pumps for Brutus 809 or 815?

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jcav

jcav

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I have another stupid question. Which is better for a single tier Brutus style system, the March 809 or March 815 pump? Is one better than the other, or just a newer model? I'm going to order two pumps soon, and I want to get the best one.

Thanks,

John
 
Performance wise, the 815 has a higher max flow rate and higher max head, but isn't necessarily better in this application and would probably never be utilized. Personally, I use the 809 and it seems to be a pretty popular choice among brewers. Other pumps are available as well (Little Giant, Chugger Pumps) but I can't speak for those.
 
I was looking at an 815 myself but then I thought... "what do I actually want a pump for"?

1) Recirculating a mash - the only issue is that you can't pull from the mash enough to warrant the larger pump. Otherwise, you [read 'I'] get a stuck sparge.

2) Recirculating the wort for cooling - turns out that my flow issue was the 3/8" tubing I was using for my chiller. Moving to 1/2" not only chills a lot faster but allows an actual whirlpool to form.

3) Pumping to the fermenter - speed doesn't really matter that much
 
Excellent points you made, the 809 should be more than adequate then for what I need it to do.

Thanks!

JVD_X said:
I was looking at an 815 myself but then I thought... "what do I actually want a pump for"?

1) Recirculating a mash - the only issue is that you can't pull from the mash enough to warrant the larger pump. Otherwise, you [read 'I'] get a stuck sparge.

2) Recirculating the wort for cooling - turns out that my flow issue was the 3/8" tubing I was using for my chiller. Moving to 1/2" not only chills a lot faster but allows an actual whirlpool to form.

3) Pumping to the fermenter - speed doesn't really matter that much
Click to expand...
 
jcav said:
I have another stupid question. Which is better for a single tier Brutus style system, the March 809 or March 815 pump? Is one better than the other, or just a newer model? I'm going to order two pumps soon, and I want to get the best one.

Thanks,

John
Click to expand...

Hi John, Just wanted to chime on a heck of a deal I found. I just received a March 809 BR HS 115V I purchased on ebay for $89 shipped. That's the bronze (not plastic) housing model. It seems to sell elsewhere for $150-$200. I'm not an ebay fan but I couldn't pass it up.

It looks like it's been sitting on a warehouse shelf for a while without a box, but appears to be (and is sold as new). I'm wiring/plumbing it up today to test it out before brewing tomorrow. I'll post my results later.

Here's a link: http://cgi.ebay.com/March-809-BR-11.../260661428201?pt=BI_Pumps&hash=item3cb0a1bfe9

For the record, I'm not affiliated with this seller, but he shipped same day and has 100% rating.

Specs from the March website - 1st one on the page: http://www.marchpump.com/documents/809-HS.asp#809-BR-HS 115V 50/60Hz & 230V 50/60Hz Models

Hope this helps!
 
DryHeave said:
Hi John, Just wanted to chime on a heck of a deal I found. I just received a March 809 BR HS 115V I purchased on ebay for $89 shipped. That's the bronze (not plastic) housing model. It seems to sell elsewhere for $150-$200. I'm not an ebay fan but I couldn't pass it up.

It looks like it's been sitting on a warehouse shelf for a while without a box, but appears to be (and is sold as new). I'm wiring/plumbing it up today to test it out before brewing tomorrow. I'll post my results later.


Here's a link: http://cgi.ebay.com/March-809-BR-11.../260661428201?pt=BI_Pumps&hash=item3cb0a1bfe9

For the record, I'm not affiliated with this seller, but he shipped same day and has 100% rating.

Specs from the March website - 1st one on the page: http://www.marchpump.com/documents/809-HS.asp#809-BR-HS 115V 50/60Hz & 230V 50/60Hz Models

Hope this helps!
Click to expand...

Plumbed and wired it up, works great! Pretty happy with it for the $$$.
 
Wow sweet price! I'm glad you chimed in DryHeave, did it have a cord at all wired with it or was it without a cord? I may pull the trigger as need to buy two of them from somewhere in the next week or so........


DryHeave said:
Plumbed and wired it up, works great! Pretty happy with it for the $$$.
Click to expand...
 
jcav said:
Wow sweet price! I'm glad you chimed in DryHeave, did it have a cord at all wired with it or was it without a cord? I may pull the trigger as need to buy two of them from somewhere in the next week or so........
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure they all have cords. The only question is whether it has a plug on the end of the cord. I've bought two 809's that just had the cord and for $2 at Lowes/Home Depot, you can add the grounded plug.

Edit: I just read the auction description and it says "conduit box", which is slightly different than most of the ones people here get. However, it's still easy to add the cord and for the price, it would be hard to pass up. Do you have an old cord from a computer, monitor or other appliance? That will suffice.
 
jcav said:
Wow sweet price! I'm glad you chimed in DryHeave, did it have a cord at all wired with it or was it without a cord? I may pull the trigger as need to buy two of them from somewhere in the next week or so........
Click to expand...

Actually, it has 3 wires that need to be stripped and connected to whatever you want. I ran it to a 3-way light switch and box then to a 10' outdoor extension cord (female end cut off) that Harbor Freight has on sale for $5. I have less than $10 into that setup including spade connectors (wanted a "clean" hookup). I have some scrap sheet metal laying around that I will fashion a splash shield out of and mount the pump and switch to with some heavy duty zip ties - nuts bolts for the switch box.
 
DryHeave said:
Hi John, Just wanted to chime on a heck of a deal I found. I just received a March 809 BR HS 115V I purchased on ebay for $89 shipped. That's the bronze (not plastic) housing model. It seems to sell elsewhere for $150-$200. I'm not an ebay fan but I couldn't pass it up.

It looks like it's been sitting on a warehouse shelf for a while without a box, but appears to be (and is sold as new). I'm wiring/plumbing it up today to test it out before brewing tomorrow. I'll post my results later.

Here's a link: http://cgi.ebay.com/March-809-BR-11.../260661428201?pt=BI_Pumps&hash=item3cb0a1bfe9

For the record, I'm not affiliated with this seller, but he shipped same day and has 100% rating.

Specs from the March website - 1st one on the page: http://www.marchpump.com/documents/809-HS.asp#809-BR-HS 115V 50/60Hz & 230V 50/60Hz Models

Hope this helps!
Click to expand...

That is the same one I was inquiring about here: March 809 BR 1/100 HP - Any Good?

Actually, it is not the HS (high speed) model. It is only 1/100 HP, which is 1/4 the HP of the HS model. I'm still undecided. What kind of flow rate are you getting and at what head?
 
KCBrewer said:
That is the same one I was inquiring about here: March 809 BR 1/100 HP - Any Good?

Actually, it is not the HS (high speed) model. It is only 1/100 HP, which is 1/4 the HP of the HS model. I'm still undecided. What kind of flow rate are you getting and at what head?
Click to expand...

Ah good point, I totally missed that. I haven't tested the head yet. The flow rate seems fine. The kitchen sink faucet can't keep up with it @ the same level. I'll check out how high I can push it tomorrow and post my results.
 
Ok, the results are in.

Test 1:
I put 1-2 gallons in my kettle on the ground, hooked the pump to the ball valve via 3' of 5/8" ID hose with 5' of the same hose on the output side of the pump. It pushed right around 4.5' vertical, give or take an inch.

Test 2:
I put 2 kettles on turkey fryers and filled one to the top with water (20.5 gallons). Hooked the same hoses to the ball valves and transferred the water from one to the other. It worked flawlessly and took about 5 minutes. Pump was on the ground and the ball valves were at about 14".

Test 3:
Left one kettle with 20.5 gallons of water (on a turkey fryer) on the ground and put the other on the tailgate of my truck (on a turkey fryer) and transferred 20.5 gallons to the kettle on my tailgate. This took about 10 minutes. The last 5 gallons or so was slow taking about 1/2 of the total transfer time. The pump was on the ground, the ball valve of the higher kettle was at about 45", the top of that kettle was at about 62". I was surprised it was able to transfer the full amount actually.

Test 4:
20.5 gallons of water in the kettle, on a turkey fryer on the ground. Pump on the ground. Pumped the full amount through a 25' counterflow chiller (3/8" copper) in about 25 minutes. The configuration was kettle>pump>CFC. I have enough copper to make another CFC which I could "tee" after the pump to further reduce the cooling time.

I think this pump will do everything I need it to. Probably not the best choice for someone looking to use a pump to fill a HLT (5'+ off the ground) in a gravity (3 tier) system. I'm moving away from my 3 tier system anyway so this will work just fine for my needs.

Hope this helps!!!
 
Yes I have plenty of cords lying around. Thanks, sounds like a simple easy wiring solution.

JonW said:
I'm pretty sure they all have cords. The only question is whether it has a plug on the end of the cord. I've bought two 809's that just had the cord and for $2 at Lowes/Home Depot, you can add the grounded plug.

Edit: I just read the auction description and it says "conduit box", which is slightly different than most of the ones people here get. However, it's still easy to add the cord and for the price, it would be hard to pass up. Do you have an old cord from a computer, monitor or other appliance? That will suffice.
Click to expand...
 
Thanks for posting your test results. I have to think about it some more. Are you still happy with your purchase and would you still recommend them for a single tier or would you stick with the other model pump? I don't need lighting fast speed on liquid transfers. Recirculating the mash is going to be at a very slow rate and my ground water here in Florida is very warm, 70 to 80 degrees depending on the time of year, so I will need a slow transfer anyway when I chill the wort down and will have to also use ice in the HLT.

DryHeave said:
Ok, the results are in.

Test 1:
I put 1-2 gallons in my kettle on the ground, hooked the pump to the ball valve via 3' of 5/8" ID hose with 5' of the same hose on the output side of the pump. It pushed right around 4.5' vertical, give or take an inch.

Test 2:
I put 2 kettles on turkey fryers and filled one to the top with water (20.5 gallons). Hooked the same hoses to the ball valves and transferred the water from one to the other. It worked flawlessly and took about 5 minutes. Pump was on the ground and the ball valves were at about 14".

Test 3:
Left one kettle with 20.5 gallons of water (on a turkey fryer) on the ground and put the other on the tailgate of my truck (on a turkey fryer) and transferred 20.5 gallons to the kettle on my tailgate. This took about 10 minutes. The last 5 gallons or so was slow taking about 1/2 of the total transfer time. The pump was on the ground, the ball valve of the higher kettle was at about 45", the top of that kettle was at about 62". I was surprised it was able to transfer the full amount actually.

Test 4:
20.5 gallons of water in the kettle, on a turkey fryer on the ground. Pump on the ground. Pumped the full amount through a 25' counterflow chiller (3/8" copper) in about 25 minutes. The configuration was kettle>pump>CFC. I have enough copper to make another CFC which I could "tee" after the pump to further reduce the cooling time.

I think this pump will do everything I need it to. Probably not the best choice for someone looking to use a pump to fill a HLT (5'+ off the ground) in a gravity (3 tier) system. I'm moving away from my 3 tier system anyway so this will work just fine for my needs.

Hope this helps!!!
Click to expand...
 
jcav said:
Thanks for posting your test results. I have to think about it some more. Are you still happy with your purchase and would you still recommend them for a single tier or would you stick with the other model pump? I don't need lighting fast speed on liquid transfers. Recirculating the mash is going to be at a very slow rate and my ground water here in Florida is very warm, 70 to 80 degrees depending on the time of year, so I will need a slow transfer anyway when I chill the wort down and will have to also use ice in the HLT.
Click to expand...

No problem at all, it was nice to see what it can do before I use it on brew day. And yes, I'm VERY happy I purchased it. I wouldn't hesitate to do it again. I see no problems with using this pump in a single tier system, that's exactly how I intend to use it actually. It pumps 4+ gallons a minute so you will need to install a ball valve on the output side if you intend to use it for fly sparging, it's a good idea to have a valve on it anyway = more control.
 
jcav said:
Yes I have plenty of cords lying around. Thanks, sounds like a simple easy wiring solution.
Click to expand...

I would really consider wiring a switch inline, It'll make thing a lot easier. Sure beats plugging/unplugging it all day long. I used a 3-way light switch ($2) and a metal box/cover ($1.50). Oh, I splurged for spade connectors ($2) as well. It'll be $5 well spent!
 
Hey DryHeave, 4 plus gallons a minute is more than I thought you would get with the smaller horse power pump. That is very good actually. I do plan on using ball valves to control the flow leaving the pump. Your post about the 3 way light switch is also a good way to go. I am going to have a control box and a switch is a lot better than having to plug and unplug the pumps to turn them on and off everytime you need to use them. Why the 3-way switch (on, off, and ?) I'm probably missing the obvious.............

DryHeave said:
No problem at all, it was nice to see what it can do before I use it on brew day. And yes, I'm VERY happy I purchased it. I wouldn't hesitate to do it again. I see no problems with using this pump in a single tier system, that's exactly how I intend to use it actually. It pumps 4+ gallons a minute so you will need to install a ball valve on the output side if you intend to use it for fly sparging, it's a good idea to have a valve on it anyway = more control.
Click to expand...
 
jcav said:
Hey DryHeave, 4 plus gallons a minute is more than I thought you would get with the smaller horse power pump. That is very good actually. I do plan on using ball valves to control the flow leaving the pump. Your post about the 3 way light switch is also a good way to go. I am going to have a control box and a switch is a lot better than having to plug and unplug the pumps to turn them on and off everytime you need to use them. Why the 3-way switch (on, off, and ?) I'm probably missing the obvious.............
Click to expand...

Actually a 3 way switched is called that because it's usually used where you have 2 switches that control the same light/fan. Like one at both ends of a hallway. It's practical in the pump application because all connections have screw terminals. A standard light switch has terminals for your lead and holes to push solid copper/romex wire in the back for the light/fan). In short, it still works as a simple on/off.
 
I made a quick "diagram" of how I wired the pump to a 3 way light switch. Of course I tested all wires before I hooked them up!!!!

THIS FUNCTIONS AS AN ON/OFF SWITCH ONLY.

This particular MARCH 809 BR pump is labeled as:
GREEN - GROUND
BLACK - LINE
BLACK - LINE
So, one black wire is positive and one is negative - doesn't matter which one.

My extension cord is:
WHITE - HOT
BLACK - GROUND
GREEN - SECONDARY GROUND

Pumpswitch.jpg


Hope this helps!
 
Thanks for explaining that, electronics and wiring my system is something I'm going to have to have an experienced person help me with. I really appreciate you going out of your way and posting the diagram also DryHeave! The diagram showed me how simple wiring a switch for the pumps really is and something I can probably tackle.

Cheers,

John :mug:

DryHeave said:
Actually a 3 way switched is called that because it's usually used where you have 2 switches that control the same light/fan. Like one at both ends of a hallway. It's practical in the pump application because all connections have screw terminals. A standard light switch has terminals for your lead and holes to push solid copper/romex wire in the back for the light/fan). In short, it still works as a simple on/off.
Click to expand...
 
No problem at all jcav! I'm not an electrical expert by any stretch of the imagination, but simple switches are easy enough... I'm sure you'll do just fine. Just take your time and double check your wiring before you fire it up.
 
I went to Chugger pumps web sight and there pumps are stainless and much cheaper then March pumps. They say they pump just as good as March pumps so whats the difference? I was going to get two of the 815's but now I think Ill just get the Chugger's. Seems to me you get more for your money. Does any one have any experience with the Chugger's?
 
One thing that hasn't been mentioned about the 815 is that they tend to cavitate less than the 809. I upgraded the impeller on my 809 to an 815 impeller for $20 and the results have been great. You can slow it to a trickle or really push things around. But, as a bonus, it is not as picky about a few air bubbles as the 809 is.
 
I also upgraded to the larger impeller on my 809's and it made a big difference in getting the flow started. No more problems with that for me.
 
Hey dcbc and jsguitar, just curious where you purchased your upgraded impeller. Northern Brewer has it for $24.00. I need two and they have $7.99 flat rate shipping. I haven't seen it cheaper than $24.00 so if you or anyone else reading this have any suggestions, I'm all ears!

Let me know.........


John
 
I got mine, along with some extra thrust washers from an online marine place who's name escapes me at the moment. I typed about them on this forum somewhere but can't find my post.
 
jcav said:
Hey dcbc and jsguitar, just curious where you purchased your upgraded impeller. Northern Brewer has it for $24.00. I need two and they have $7.99 flat rate shipping. I haven't seen it cheaper than $24.00 so if you or anyone else reading this have any suggestions, I'm all ears!

Let me know.........


John
Click to expand...

I bought mine from Rebel Brewer. Can't remember what I paid, but I think it was $19 or $20. Right now, they have them listed for $22.95. So if you're ordering two, go for the flat shipping.
 
dcbc said:
I bought mine from Rebel Brewer. Can't remember what I paid, but I think it was $19 or $20. Right now, they have them listed for $22.95. So if you're ordering two, go for the flat shipping.
Click to expand...

Excellent, I think I will pull the trigger and place and order tonight.

Thanks again,

John
 

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