First thread, Requesting feedback on Baltic Porter recipe.

This is the first recipe I made and I haven't even brewed my first match of beer yet. I cook a lot and I consider myself to be fairly knowledgeable of spices and flavor combinations, so I decided to try and make a complex Baltic Porter recipe. Please give me any feedback or thoughts you have on the recipe.

The recipe I was aiming to for is a full bodied Caramel Oaked Baltic Porter. Should have nutty, biscuit, toasty, caramel, raisin, toffee, and chocolate flavors. The most apparent taste out of these should be the caramel (and I wanted biscuit in there as well). The final ABV should be around 7.73 @ 75% efficiency. Considering adding vanilla and/or bourbon to this recipe to make it into a Caramel Oaked Vanilla (bourbon) Porter but I'll consider that later.

5 Gallon Batch:
OG: 1.083
FG: 1.024
IBU: 27.1
SRM: 30.85
ABV: 7.73

11# 2-row
2# Victory
8oz Caramel 80
6oz Biscuit
6oz Dark Munich
6oz Special B
4oz Franco-Belges Kiln Coffee
4oz Caramel 40
4oz De-Bittered Black
2oz Caramel 60
2oz Thomas Fawcett Pale Chocolate Malt

1oz Magnum @ 60
0.2oz Whitbread Golding @ 10
0.4oz Kent Goldings @ 10

-4oz Light Oak Chips (infused with 1 cup boiled water (for 15 minutes) or 1 cup bourbon when bottling)
-(2 Vanilla Beans in secondary)

Thinking of mashing at around 153-154°

Thoughts?

The only thing that strikes me about the recipe is the number of specialty malts. In a big flavorful beer, I think a lot of the variations in crystal/Special B is going to get lost. Biscuit and Victory? 3 different caramels? I would probably simplify a little. My favorite recipes seem to be fairly simple.

I agree, yet I am not really looking to recreate a simple Baltic Porter. This is definitely an experimental recipe and I love complexity, even if some flavors get lost. I'd think there would be a possibility of different flavors running together or others getting over-powered, yet I think it would be interesting to try. I read the different flavors typically released from the malts and tried to focus down to what A) I like in the flavor of a dark beers and B) what I'd expect to be in a baltic porter and how I'd expect it to taste. The main focus is the caramel malts but I wanted a few others for the experimentation purpose (SCIENCE! ) of the brew. In reality, I'm use to cooking and using spices, and I'm kind of treating this like a complex tea combination or some sort of sauce using a lot of spices (with the spices being the grains and malt).

By all means, this is in fact your brew, so experiment away. I love experimenting and formulating recipes. Some of mine have been keepers, others... eh, not so much. As long as you are approaching this with the right mindset, I say go for it. I hope its awesome. As for adding Bourbon and Vanilla, maybe split the batch in secondary and oak half and B/V the other half. Also, read up on using coffee. I have never used it in a brew myself (caffeine is strictly a morning drug for me) buy I am pretty sure you do not want to add it in the boil. I know people cold-steep in a french press overnight and have good results, so that may be an option.

I think you are focusing too much on the specialty malts and not enough on the base malts. Without a doubt, a good Baltic Porter should be very complex, but it starts with a substantial base. Instead of using the domestic 2-row pale that tends to be fairly simple, consider using Vienna, Munich, or maybe Marris Otter as your base malts (or, at least, as a substantial portion of the base malt). If you did that, you also could probably get rid of the Victory and biscuit malts without losing anything (but OG, which you could make up with more base malt). You'll have loads of bready, biscuity maltiness from those base malts. Keep in mind that a great deal of complexity in a Baltic Porter should come from base malts (as well as alcohol, a mild bit of fermentation character, maybe a bit of residual hop character). Specialty malts should only complement that.

Also, I don't like the coffee in this recipe. When you add coffee to a beer, the beer tastes like coffee. It tends to overwhelm nuances, even long into the finish. There's just no getting around it. I think you will find yourself somewhat disaapointed that you went through a tremendous amount of work and expense to create complexity that is largely overcome by coffee. Don't get me wrong, I do tend to enjoy coffee beers, but the coffee usually is the primary flavor with little else. Plus, the addition of the coffee with the dark malts you have will probably lead to something much roastier than it sounds like you want. If you do use it, though, you are absolutely correct that you do not want to add it to the boil.

On those dark malts, I shy away from black malt in any form. That is a personal preference, mind you. I just don't care for the stuff, but I love what carafa special does for porters and stouts (especially porters). It adds a smooth, chocolatey note. However, with the pale chocolate, you might be getting what you want from that.

I don't have a huge problem at all with using four different crystal malts, although 6 oz. of Special B might be a lot. A little Special B goes a long way. You are taking a chance that flavors will get a bit muddled, rather than pleasantly complex, but you do say its an experimental recipe. Give it a shot.

If you want to go with some oak, I recommend going with, at least, a medium toast and French oak. The tannins from light oak (and especially from American oak) is more likely to clash with much of what you are doing, rather than complement. Again, I don't think you want to overwhelm all that complexity with wood character. I like s3n8's idea to split the batch if you want to go with the oak.

Finally, the hops. I don't like Magnum for this. It's too clean. It's an American thing. As I mentioned above, some of the complexity should come from some residual hop character, and you still do get that from bittering additions. Goldings are alright, but noble hops are better (by far) for a beer like this. I would go that route for all additions. I don't know that you want an addition as late as 10 minutes, either, as I expect that will contribute the wrong sort of hop aroma to the beer.

I certainly respect your desire to experiment and play around. It's fun, and it's interesting, but you will find a point where the "Big Mac" beers (i.e., throwing everything in the kettle, including pickles and onions on a sesame seed bun) tend to tire out your palate, rather than excite it. As a cook, you know that point that I'm talking about. That is a fairly common mistake many new brewers make when designing recipes. You don't need a complex recipe to make a complex beer.


TL

Nice, that's just the right information I was looking for. I will alter my recipe with your comment in mind and make the attempt to research putting together recipes more. It's hard to find specifics like what you mention so I figured this may be the best way to ask. Keep in mind I'm new and I haven't even made 1 batch of beer yet lol. I kind of took the short route of taking my first impressions and seeing how they compare to the common consensus of brewing. Thanks, cheers!

You might want to look into Hallertauer, Hersbrucker, or Hallertaur-Hersbrucker hops. I used these in an extract Sinebrychoff Porter clone (recipe in my profile), and it adds a nice spiciness to the beer.

Ksosh said:

You might want to look into Hallertauer, Hersbrucker, or Hallertaur-Hersbrucker hops. I used these in an extract Sinebrychoff Porter clone (recipe in my profile), and it adds a nice spiciness to the beer.

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ITA.

If you don't want to go the lublin/other baltic hop route, I would go noble.

Okay, I've been reworking my recipe and I'd say I'm pleased so far. Now I have a general knowledge of grains but none what-so-ever on hops. Using noble hops, what times would you suggest putting them in (should they all be added @ 60?) and which ones specifically should I select out of the noble category?

DavidSteel said:

Okay, I've been reworking my recipe and I'd say I'm pleased so far. Now I have a general knowledge of grains but none what-so-ever on hops. Using noble hops, what times would you suggest putting them in (should they all be added @ 60?) and which ones specifically should I select out of the noble category?

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Looking at different recipes, I think I might go with Galena @ 60 and Saaz (czech) @ 15.

Updated recipe (lol completely different):
Crisp Maris Otter
7 lbs, 0 oz
Weyermann Light Munich
7 lbs, 0 oz
Weyermann De-Husked Carafa III ®
0 lbs, 6 oz
Briess 2 Row Caramel 40
0 lbs, 5 oz
Special B
0 lbs, 4 oz
Briess 2 Row Caramel 80
0 lbs, 4 oz
Briess 2 Row Caramel 60
0 lbs, 2 oz
Biscuit
0 lbs, 2 oz
Thomas Fawcett Pale Chocolate Malt
0 lbs, 1 oz
Galena Plugs
.75 oz @ 60 mins
Saaz, Czech Pellets
.25 oz @ 15 mins
Priming Sugar
1 ea
White Labs London Ale
1 ea

ABV: 7.86
SRM: 29.55
IBU: 25.9
OG: 1.084
FG: 1.024

When ordering the white labs london ale yeast, should I add a frozen gel pack in the shipment? Should I even buy that certain yeast or does it really matter?

Couldn't hurt to order the gel pack.

See this hop addition chart for more information on how the timing on hops influences bitterness/taste/aroma: https://cdn.homebrewtalk.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=7238&cat=all&ppuser=14092

That's a better-looking grain bill, for certain. I bet it's fun to brew. Galena hops are an interesting choice, as they are fairly neutral and very high on the AA%. You won't get quite the background Noble hop character, but with the late addition Saaz, it should be more than fine.


TL

Congrats on finding a great new hobby! I'm impressed that you are brewing your own recipe as your first brew, and all grain at that! Have you considered using a lager yeast? I think that most baltic porters these days use lager yeasts.

I'm going to go the other way than most of these guys on this. I'm not sure it's a good idea taking on such a complex recipe for your first brew. Not because you can't handle it, not because it's too hard, but because if the final product has any off-flavors too it, it will be next to impossible to figure out where to improve. You won't know if the problem exists in your combination of ingredients, or somewhere in your brew process.

That being said, I am all for experimentation and enjoying your hobby in the way that best suits you, so go for it by all means. I would suggest you try a simpler, proven recipe first, just to learn the fundamentals. Then try this recipe on a second or third batch.

Either way, let me know how it turns out, it looks like it should be pretty good.

DRoyLenz said:

I'm going to go the other way than most of these guys on this. I'm not sure it's a good idea taking on such a complex recipe for your first brew. Not because you can't handle it, not because it's too hard, but because if the final product has any off-flavors too it, it will be next to impossible to figure out where to improve. You won't know if the problem exists in your combination of ingredients, or somewhere in your brew process.

That being said, I am all for experimentation and enjoying your hobby in the way that best suits you, so go for it by all means. I would suggest you try a simpler, proven recipe first, just to learn the fundamentals. Then try this recipe on a second or third batch.

Either way, let me know how it turns out, it looks like it should be pretty good.

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Yeah, I was just piecing together a recipe for fun really. I do plan on doing something set in stone first (a tweaked oatmeal breakfast stout that is going to be a partial mash). I'm doing a partial mash because I won't have my mash tun built for a little while. I've got experience in wine making so I have general ideas of things. Just want to learn more about grains and piecing together recipes more than anything else (more than just brewing clones).

Ksosh said:

Couldn't hurt to order the gel pack.

See this hop addition chart for more information on how the timing on hops influences bitterness/taste/aroma: https://cdn.homebrewtalk.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=7238&cat=all&ppuser=14092

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What does boiling time refer to? I know how yeast work from experience in wine but not sure about beer.

Boiling time is how long the hops are boiling, so it's a countdown (60 minutes left, 30 minutes left, 10 minutes left) to your flame out and start of the cooling of the wort.

DavidSteel said:

Just want to learn more about grains and piecing together recipes more than anything else (more than just brewing clones).

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If that's the case then I'd +1 to the 'keep it simple' comments. If you're learning about grains I'd add one or two specialty grains max at a time so you can tell what they're doing and how changes in a single ingredient will change the beer profile. But as others have said, it's your brew so do whatever you'd like. Good luck and let us know how it turns out.