Why is my beer too dry?

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mscaron

mscaron

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I just kegged a couple of 5.5G batches of APAs. They both use the same grain bills, but in one I used Cascade hops, and the other, Mosaic. Here's the grain bill (all organic btw):

9.5 lbs 2-row
8oz Crystal 60L
8oz Crystal 120L
4oz Cara-Pils

Beersmith predicts OG 1.052, FG 1.011

I use BIAB.

Batch #1:
Mash temp 150-147, 70 mins (lower temps than I was going for).
OG 1.047, FG 1.006

Batch #2:
Mash temp 154-148, 80 mins.
OG 1.050, FG 1.008

Just tasting them after the 7 day dry hop time and now in the kegerator, I'm disappointed because they taste too dry to me. They are missing that little bit of sweet to balance out the hops (like Mirror Pond for example, which this is supposed to be a clone recipe for). Is it my mash temps, mash time, or maybe the grain bill (need more crystal?). By the way I did substitute the 60L+120L for a similar amount of 80L, because they didn't have organic 80L, and I just wanted this to be an all-organic grain beer.

What do you think?

Thanks,
Mark
 
Which yeast?

It could be that you are mashing too low of temp which will provide more fermentable sugars from the grain and result in a drier FG. Maybe your thermometer is reading high? Generally for a well rounded beer most people are mashing in the 152F range. I mash at 156 for my brown ale to give it a sweeter finish.

Even when I mash high I still get low FG's with Nottingham and US-05 (my 2 preferred yeasts).
 
mscaron said:
I just kegged a couple of 5.5G batches of APAs. They both use the same grain bills, but in one I used Cascade hops, and the other, Mosaic. Here's the grain bill (all organic btw):

9.5 lbs 2-row
8oz Crystal 60L
8oz Crystal 120L
4oz Cara-Pils

Beersmith predicts OG 1.052, FG 1.011

I use BIAB.

Batch #1:
Mash temp 150-147, 70 mins (lower temps than I was going for).
OG 1.047, FG 1.006

Batch #2:
Mash temp 154-148, 80 mins.
OG 1.050, FG 1.008

Just tasting them after the 7 day dry hop time and now in the kegerator, I'm disappointed because they taste too dry to me. They are missing that little bit of sweet to balance out the hops (like Mirror Pond for example, which this is supposed to be a clone recipe for). Is it my mash temps, mash time, or maybe the grain bill (need more crystal?). By the way I did substitute the 60L+120L for a similar amount of 80L, because they didn't have organic 80L, and I just wanted this to be an all-organic grain beer.

What do you think?

Thanks,
Mark
Click to expand...

My take would be that it is your mash temp. The mash temps you are using will lead to highly fermentable wort, which will lead the finished beer to be dry. If you want more sweetness, you should mash at a higher temp.
 
I think you are right to suspect the mash temp. I like my beers dry and ferment in the 147-152 range. I go to 156-159 to increase the unfernmentable sugars when I want to increase the sweet taste. I guess you could probably add lactose to increase the sweetness as well.
 
Your Mash temps are lower, so you're getting a more fermentable wort.

That being said.... Why are you losing 3-6 degrees during a 60 minute mash? Are you pre-heating your mash tun in any way?
 
I use BIAB outdoors on my apt patio (not even in a garage). I'm in Minnesota, and the outdoor temps were mid-30's (which was warm for January!). I do wrap my kettle with a Columbia winter coat during mash, but I think maybe that's why my temps are dropping a bit this time.

Thanks everyone for your comments! Next time I'll mash this at higher temps.

Mark
 
mscaron said:
I use BIAB outdoors on my apt patio (not even in a garage). I'm in Minnesota, and the outdoor temps were mid-30's (which was warm for January!). I do wrap my kettle with a Columbia winter coat during mash, but I think maybe that's why my temps are dropping a bit this time.

Thanks everyone for your comments! Next time I'll mash this at higher temps.

Mark
Click to expand...

Could you bring your kettle indoors just for the mash?
 
I think your mash temps are low... 148 is a bit low for the end of a mash to me...

I only lose 2 degrees in an hour in my setup and the mash is usually finished 30 to 45 minutes...

Check your thermometer because it could be off a few degrees and then you migh have even low than you think temps.

Warmer temps or add some dextrin malt of some kind if you are going to keep using the same equipment,,, maybe that will help
 
Jayhem said:
Could you bring your kettle indoors just for the mash?
Click to expand...

I had the same problem and that's what I did. Set the burner close enough to the side door that I felt I could safely get the pot inside once I hit my strike temp. Much easier to hold the temp out of the wind and cold!
 
That's really not a bad idea for cold weather! Although, I try to do as little work as possible :), and bringing a hot kettle with almost 8 gals + grain inside does pose a little more chance of a spill. After the boil I bring it in, but at that time it's just under 6 gals and the grain and perforated bucket are out. But I appreciate the suggestions!
 
Mash temperature and its effect on fermentability is certainly a possibility. Another thing that can increase fermentability is low mash pH. And a final component that can enhance the dryness of finish is high sulfate in water. Plenty of options to explore. Hopefully you know what is in your water.
 
Thanks Martin, I am using RO water with 1 tsp of gypsum, and 1 tsp of calcium chloride. In addition I add 1/2 tsp of lactic acid. I'll check out your water link!
 
I heat my strike water on the stove and mash inside, then do my batch sparge indoors as well. Then I take both parts out to the patio and combine them to boil, that way I'm never moving a full kettle of hot liquid/mash.

Also, remember a longer mash=more fermentable wort especially at lower temps. Consider mashing until you get full conversion and then sparging.
 
The RO gives you a known starting point. I wish I had confidence in measuring powdered mineral additions with teaspoons, but I don't. So, I'm not sure what those mineral additions produce in terms of concentrations. My caution is that you don't want high chloride in conjunction with high sulfate. Taste can be minerally when both are in excess.
 
While I was looking at my clone recipe, I did notice that I ignored the yeast suggestion and used US-05. The recipe calls for Wyeast 1968, which has an attenuation of 67-71%. This is even in the description: " Attenuation levels are typically less than most other yeast strains which results in a slightly sweeter finish." I'm not sure what the typical attenuation is for US-05. I'm planning to brew this again next weekend. I was going to enter a small contest with this on Mar 24. I'll increase my mash temps, make sure the mash time is no longer than 60 mins, and I'll use 1968 or maybe 1332 instead of US-05. I'll let you know how it turns out!

Thanks!
Mark
 
TastySalmon said:
Mash for a shorter time. I see you're at 70 and 80 minutes. Try mashing for just 30 or 40 minutes.
Click to expand...

I have to totally disagree with that, if youre mashing at under 150 degrees. A mash may convert in as little as 20 minutes, but usually only at a higher temperature. If you're mashing at 147-147 degrees, it could take as long as 90 minutes to convert. If you're not testing for conversion, I would NOT shorten the mash.
 
Yooper said:
I have to totally disagree with that, if youre mashing at under 150 degrees. A mash may convert in as little as 20 minutes, but usually only at a higher temperature. If you're mashing at 147-147 degrees, it could take as long as 90 minutes to convert. If you're not testing for conversion, I would NOT shorten the mash.
Click to expand...

I agree. I mash for 2-8 hours and get incredible attenuation due to combo of temps dropping and extended time frames. I've had to increase my temps by 3+ degrees depending on style. It's the mash temp PLUS mash time
 
I have to ask -- have you actually tried a short mash? I was dubious until a pro told me my beers were thin and dry. His suggestion was a shorter mash. Problem solved. It is not unusual for pros to mash less than 60 minutes I have been informed.

Granted, I have a RIMS, so this may not apply to a cooler. My experience with coolers is limited, so I might be barking up the wrong tree.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the OPs post was not necessarily about attenuation, but thin beer. Thin beers tend to be well-attenuated in my experience. If they want a full-bodied beer and are finding their conversion is appropriate in a typical mash duration, mash for a shorter duration.
 
Hey!
it's been a while since I posted here..
Is there a way to "fix" this after the beer has fermented?? is there a way to add malty sweetness so the batch can be saved and consumed?
I just brewed a batch of American IPA and after only 4 days of fermenting the sample was so dry and bitter.
I hear some brewers add lactose.. can that save a beer or do I truly need malt flavors?
 
Its too soon to judge that beer. Suspended yeast and particulates can significantly throw off your perception. Let it settle and clarify for another week or two and recheck.
 
Mobstar said:
Hey!
it's been a while since I posted here..
Is there a way to "fix" this after the beer has fermented?? is there a way to add malty sweetness so the batch can be saved and consumed?
I just brewed a batch of American IPA and after only 4 days of fermenting the sample was so dry and bitter.
I hear some brewers add lactose.. can that save a beer or do I truly need malt flavors?
Click to expand...


Wait longer than four days to judge your beer and make drastic changes.
 

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