Wheat ale vs wheat lager

Had a Sam Adams Winter lager which is a "dark wheat lager". Like several of their beers their dark flavor (for me it's burned) i didn't care for much, but it got me thinking. As I do not have enough experience thought I'd ask before going off and brewing 2 half batches of American wheat with everything the same except the yeast and temps. I was thinking I will brew an American wheat similar to a Harpoon UFO or an SA Summer Ale (without the lemon zest and Grains of Paradise) to try to learn the difference between wheat ale and lager. Also plan an American lager with lager and Ale yeasts to try an learn the differences but want to start trying to understand before hand.

Can anyone with experience educate me as to what the differences may be between the two beers? Also was wondering why this is the only Wheat Lager I've seen vs many Wheat ales on the market.

BPD,
I haven't had it so am just guessing here but it could be a dark version of...
'"Weissbierpils", Germany's youngest beer style, created by Brewmaster Hubert Brandl in 2005 and first brought to market by the Adler Bräu of Amerdingen and the Fürst Wallerstein Brauhaus AG in Wallertstein, both in Bavaria. This "white beer pilsner," or WeiPi for short, is a hybrid brew made by blending Germany's most popular beer, Pils, a barley-based lager which holds about 61% of the German and 20% of the Bavarian market with Germany's third-most popular beer, Weissbier, a wheat-based ale which holds about 8.5% of the German and 35% of the Bavarian market. The blending occurs in the cellar during fermentation at a ratio of 53% Weissbier and 47% Pils. The resulting beer has about 5.2% alcohol by volume and combines what some believe is the best of both possible worlds, namely the Weissbier's fruity-spicy notes and the Pils' clean-tasting, assertive up-front bitterness. As of February 2006, eleven German breweries were making WeiPi under Herr Brandl's license'.

BPD,
I got that info from German Beer Styles a great site for German beer definitions.
mark
Beer Diary...

Just be sure to let us know how the split batch experiment turns out!

BPD said:

Had a Sam Adams Winter lager which is a "dark wheat lager". Like several of their beers their dark flavor (for me it's burned) i didn't care for much, but it got me thinking. As I do not have enough experience thought I'd ask before going off and brewing 2 half batches of American wheat with everything the same except the yeast and temps. I was thinking I will brew an American wheat similar to a Harpoon UFO or an SA Summer Ale (without the lemon zest and Grains of Paradise) to try to learn the difference between wheat ale and lager. Also plan an American lager with lager and Ale yeasts to try an learn the differences but want to start trying to understand before hand.

Can anyone with experience educate me as to what the differences may be between the two beers? Also was wondering why this is the only Wheat Lager I've seen vs many Wheat ales on the market.

Click to expand...

UFO is an American-style Hefeweizen. This means that it closely follows the Bavarian Hefeweizen style rather than the Belgian Wit style with one noticeable difference. That is that the American Hefeweizen uses yeast strains that aren't as heavy on the estery, phenolic (bananna clove flavors/aromas) leading to a lighter, fruity character with almost a light, near-citrusy sweetness. This style doesn't use spices, fruit, etc like its belgian cousin. The Belgian Wit/Wheat style uses that distinctive clove/peppery phenolic finish as well as using spices/fruit. Sam Adams Summer Ale is a classic Belgian Wit style.

These are both ales that predominantly need the "punchiness" of flavor and aroma that only an ale yeast can provide. Lager yeasts provide a much cleaner, mellower flavor profile so you won't get a lot of those esters and phenols like from the ale yeasts.

I hope this info makes things a little clearer!

GloHoppa said:

These are both ales that predominantly need the "punchiness" of flavor and aroma that only an ale yeast can provide. Lager yeasts provide a much cleaner, mellower flavor profile so you won't get a lot of those esters and phenols like from the ale yeasts.

I hope this info makes things a little clearer!

Click to expand...

It does Thanks. So a wheat lager would be crisper and milder and the flavors of any additives would be sharper?

BPD said:

It does Thanks. So a wheat lager would be crisper and milder and the flavors of any additives would be sharper?

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Basically, yeah...if you're looking to recreate a beer like UFO or SA Summer, you need to use an ale yeast.

If you wanted to do a wheat lager, you should probably think about varying your malt bill and using regular wheat malt, dark wheat malt, cara wheat, etc

not looking to recreate but looking to brew something good with each type of yeast everything else being the same. just for the learning experience and to see why there are wheat ales but not many wheat lagers. was thinking a UFO or SA like beer since this is what I can drink and my wife likes also. thanks for the info and any addition future help, will ask once I get it going.
Ben

a wheat lager is basically just a wheat beer that uses lager yeast. you don't get the same characteristics as you would with a traditional wiesse-bier, because all the clove/banana notes come from the yeast.

i'd stick with a traditional hefeweizen recipe, something like:

60/40 wheat/pilsner

and add a small amount of carafa for color and then use a nice clean lager yeast.

wheat ales are what you see in the bjcp guidelines:

German Wheat Ales

American Wheat

The american wheat can actually be made with a lager yeast, although your color will be off for the style if you're going darker.

i've tried an american wheat made with the cream ale blend, and it was most excellent.

If you want to do a beer that shows the versatility of wheat, look no further than this puppy

"Latin for "wheat," Triticus is a strong and dark wheat wine-style ale that boasts 14.3% alcohol-by-volume. The blend of 50% wheat malts, including caramel and chocolate, provides color and depth of flavor. Complex hopping and dry-hopping lends a delicate spiciness and just enough balance to complement its strength. Once brewed, the Triticus was transferred to 50-gallon bourbon barrels and aged at the brewery for over 2 months"

dark wheat wines!

What about something like a 60/40 wheat/barley with .5lbs of flaked rice and corn, with some Amarillo, and then either a dutch or american lager yeast? Would you still have any of the characteristics of the wheat beer? I'd like to make a wheat lager maybe with a touch of grapefruit or orange peel. Looking for a nice clean, crisp summer beer.

Probably because wheat beers are considered a summer drink........so consequently they are traditionally ales.

Seems there is a belgian style wit that uses a lager yeast? Seems I've seen it in a style guide or recipe book, or somewhere.....can't place it.

Lagers are summer drinks. They're generally lighter and crisper.

SRSLY...if you are going by "style", an American Wheat can be used with a lager yeast. A nice, clean, wheat lager sounds great. Just do a wheat beer and use a lager yeast. Not that complicated.

DeathBrewer said:

Lagers are summer drinks. They're generally lighter and crisper.

SRSLY...if you are going by "style", an American Wheat can be used with a lager yeast. A nice, clean, wheat lager sounds great. Just do a wheat beer and use a lager yeast. Not that complicated.

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But lagers are brewed in the winter and aged. Wheat beers in Europe are traditionally brewed in the summer and consumed very young. In Bavaria, at the hottest point in the summer........Hefe's are pretty much the assumed drink at any biergarden. Especially at any outdoor event, like a volksmarch. Nothing in the world compares to a cold Hefe after a hike.

I would agree...hefeweizens are very light and refreshing beers compared to most ales. I simply didn't agree with your statement that light summer drinks consequently are traditionally ales (perhaps misread or typographical error)

Brewing a wheat beer with a lager yeast would definitely take longer due to a less vigorous fermentation, aging due to sulfur production, etc.

DeathBrewer said:

an American Wheat can be used with a lager yeast. A nice, clean, wheat lager sounds great. Just do a wheat beer and use a lager yeast. Not that complicated.

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this is what I was considering an american wheat with a lager yeast. Thanks.
I do like a good Bavarian Hefe, Weltenberger Hefeweizen Hell is my favorite, since visiting Bavaria 4 years ago but I do not want to try this yet am still learning and thought I could learn a bit of yeast characteristics using an american style wheat. was just wondering why no lagers but the time consideration is probably the answer why there are few wheat lagers.

Thanks again for the info and also thanks for the partial mash tutoral you made it easy

DeathBrewer said:

I would agree...hefeweizens are very light and refreshing beers compared to most ales. I simply didn't agree with your statement that light summer drinks consequently are traditionally ales (perhaps misread or typographical error)

Brewing a wheat beer with a lager yeast would definitely take longer due to a less vigorous fermentation, aging due to sulfur production, etc.

Click to expand...

I wasn't referring to anything but hefe's. I do not mean that light summer drinks are traditionally ales......only that since hefe's are considered a summer drink, and because they are consumed as a young beer......it follows then that they would be an ale and not a lager for obvious historic reasons.

What would be interesting would be a "steam" hefe.

Out of all the beer styles, hefe's are definitely right up there in speed from brewday to drinking. Some of the small brewerys I visited, I was told they were going from grain to serving in 15 days. The beer store in Gebrunn, GE (a block from my apartment) had to return any unsold cases of the brand of hefe I drank to the brewery in 30 days (that was their sell by date). The shop owner didn't like that because if he returned any, they cut his allotment for the next shipment. He cut me a deal and sold me what he had left for DM20 off a case the day before they expired. It worked out well, as that gave me the case for DM40, 15 of which was the bottle and crate return. So basically, I got a case of hefe for DM25, at the time I was there it was 2.7 DM to the dollar. Of course, I ate the deposit on a lot of them.......as I shipped about a dozen cases back in my household goods;-) These now make up the bulk of my bottles.........and even after nearly 20 years, the flip tops still work!

Oh, did I mention that this was delivered to my apartment? Like we used to get milk? I had a "beerman"!

A steam hefe would be interesting...i wonder how that spiciness would play off of the wheat.

Speaking of steam and quick turnaround, Anchor Steam goes from Grain to Bottle in 6 days