Parti Gyle help????

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pava

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Denver, PA
So I am planning (or well hoping you all will help me plan) my first parti gyle (hoping to pull it off the beginning of January sometime). So my reasoning here is I really want to brew a barley wine, but hate spending so much on ingredients for just one big beer (albeit a beauty of a beer) and also hate to have to wait 10+ months to get my first taste of a brew. So kill two birds with one stone and try a partigyle. . that way I get my barley wine and a brew that will be ready in 3-4wks.

I have not formulated any of my own recipes yet so I just figured I would use Jamils American Barley wine recipe (unless any one has a better suggestion -- perhaps the 09-09-09?)

In any case what I would like is to brew a 5 gallon barely wine and at least a 5 gallon APA, although I would really like to push it to a 10 gallon APA if possible.
I understand the basic principle of a parti gyle, but I guess I am just a bit unclear as to exactly how you know how much you can get outta your subsequent runnings and if you have to add more grain, partial mash specialty grains, etc.

What I am hoping for is a simple as possible experience, I don't really want to have to deal with a partial mash or anything else, I would just like to put my entire grain bill in the tun, pull off enough for my big beer and then continue to run and hopefully end up with a nice APA. I will be batch sparging and like I said plan to use Jamils recipe (listed below -- unless anyone has any other suggestions -- I am definitely not sold on his recipe) Any tips, recipes, or personal experiences would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.


Here is Jamils Barley Wine Recipe:
Batch Size (Gal): 6.00 Wort Size (Gal): 6.00
Total Grain (Lbs): 25.50
Anticipated OG: 1.115 Plato: 27.02
Anticipated SRM: 18.8
Anticipated IBU: 96.0
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70 %
Wort Boil Time: 120 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar
% Amount Name Origin Extract SRM
86.3 22.00 lbs. Pale Malt(2-row) Great Britain 1.098 3
3.9 1.00 lbs. Crystal 75L Great Britian 1.004 75
3.9 1.00 lbs. Crystal 20L America 1.004 20
1.0 0.25 lbs. Special B Malt Belgian 1.001 120
1.0 0.25 lbs. Chocolate Malt - Pale Great Britain 1.001 200
3.9 1.00 lbs. Corn Sugar Generic 1.008 0

Exract represented as SG.

Hops
Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
2.00 oz. Magnum Pellet 15.50 96.0 60 min
1.00 oz. Chinook Pellet 13.00 0.0 0 min
1.50 oz. Centennial Pellet 10.50 0.0 0 min
1.50 oz. Amarillo Gold Pellet 10.00 0.0 0 min


Yeast
White Labs WLP001 California Ale
 
so Brewsmith, how did the barley wine turn out. . .still have any left? I can only imagine how that would taste over 3 years later.

I was really leaning toward doing an american barley wine, but would not be opposed to doing the english version . . .and I have been toying with doing an ESB as well. So instead of doing the 3rd small beer, do you think I could get 10 gallons of ESB in addition to the barley wine with this recipe?
 
The small beer ended up kinda tanniny, but it was really just an experiment. The rest turned out pretty good. The English Barleywine scored a 37.5 at the NHC this year. It's rich but still balanced. I'll try one soon and let you know.
 
So instead of doing the 3rd small beer, do you think I could get 10 gallons of ESB in addition to the barley wine with this recipe?
I'd go for 5 gallons of both just for tannin extraction reasons. If the gravity is high enough, add some water pre-boil to the ESB to get as much volume as you want.
 
Regarding tannin extraction, I thought I remembered reading somewhere that you can continue to sparge until you reach a certain pre boil gravity with no concerns. Is this correct? If so does anyone happen to know what that gravity is? Or is the only way to be safe (regarding ph levels and tannin extraction) to have a way to test ph levels.
 
Regarding tannin extraction, I thought I remembered reading somewhere that you can continue to sparge until you reach a certain pre boil gravity with no concerns. Is this correct? If so does anyone happen to know what that gravity is? Or is the only way to be safe (regarding ph levels and tannin extraction) to have a way to test ph levels.
It's roughly about 1.010, but if you are batch sparging, you won't get there.
 
First for a partigyle you should expect your total efficiency would be at best the same a you normally get with an average sized beer using your procedure. This will be the combined efficiencies of both beers.
So if you usually get 80% in a 5gal beer and you decide to make a partigyle with 2 5gal beers then you the efficiency of the first beer using all the grains plus the efficiency of the second beer using all the grains will be about 80%.

I think for my 09-09-09 partigyle the first beer had twice the gravity of the second,but my total efficiency was down a little at about 75%. So I got 50% efficiency for the first beer and 25% for the second beer.

I was limited in grain volume by my 10gal MLT so I supplemented with a little DME in both beers. I think I use 3# total between the beers. The second beer an IPA was very tasty though quite dry for my tastes. The 09-09-09 is still in the secondary.

Craig
 
So is tannin extraction ever a concern when batch sparging? Brewsmith - you say you that you won't get below 1.010 when batch sparging, but wouldn't it be possible (for instance in a parti gyle) if you would continue to sparge wouldn't you eventually get runnings below 1.010?

I ask this too because I have been experiencing a bitterness in my brews that I am beginning to think is astringency and may be due to extracted tannins. My process is as follows:

-Mash with a ratio of 1.3 to 1 @ 152 for 60 minutes
-mashout out by adding near boiling water (205 - 212) to raise temps to 170 for 10 minutes
-Vorlauf generally 1 to 2 gallons
-sparge twice with 170 degree water each time allowing to sit for 10 minutes before draining -- vorlauf each run 1 to 2 gallons.

To my knowledge using this process should not be extracting any tannins, so I am starting to think that I may have a water chemistry issue ( I know that we have hard water, but am not sure how hard and my local utility company water report had absolutely no brewing related information on it). The next batch I do I am planning on buying bottled water in order to try to narrow down the issue.
 
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