Extract w/Grain vs. Partial-Mash

I've been thinking about my 5th batch now. AHS has options for mini-mash, all-grain or extract with every kit and i was wondering if there's a significant difference in taste between an extract w/grain kit and it's respective mini-mash? I'm thinking of maybe doing an imperial IPA, but i have to find a good kit.

Also, what kind of beer do you all recommend to go on a wyeast german ale yeast cake? I have cheesefoods CCA in a primary now and may just dump a new batch on top of the cake. Is this a bad idea due to the vanilla, lactose, and other ingredients in the caramel cream ale? Will they throw off the flavors of the next beer?

In my opinion there is a certain taste that goes with an extract brew that is not there in a All Grain.

I've heard it referred to has a home brew "Twang"

I as an extract brewer am thinking that extract brewing does have some kind of twang or something to it. After drinking some micros and then mine, it's just way different. I'm going to start partial mashing as soon as the extract I have for a couple of beers I planned is used to 1, test out this theory of mine on the taste (hopefully) and 2, to get it to come out lighter in color. No matter what I do these damn things are dark!

The AHS partial mash recipes are very nice- I've done a couple of them in the past.

As far as that yeast cake, I think the vanilla and lactose would probably be a bad idea for your next beer, especially for an IIPA. I suggest washing your yeast, and then reusing it. Do a search for "yeast washing" and you'll find lots of threads about it. Also, look here, at the wiki: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Washing_yeast

That might help. If it still smells like vanilla, though, I'd recommend tossing it out.

orfy said:

In my opinion there is a certain taste that goes with an extract brew that is not there in a All Grain.

I've heard it referred to has a home brew "Twang"

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Is the extract taste a good flavor, or bad? I've done two extract kits and two partial-mash recipes. The first of the partial mash recipes isn't quite ready to drink. The 2nd partial mash brew is being moved to the secondary tomorrow evening.

orfy said:

In my opinion there is a certain taste that goes with an extract brew that is not there in a All Grain.

I've heard it referred to has a home brew "Twang"

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Can you elaborate on this "twang?" Maybe this is what my beers have that I am trying to identify.

Does PM eliminate this?

So far the last 4 or 5 batches I've done since getting back into brewing have all been AHBS mini-mashes and frankly I don't plan on moving beyond that any time soon. I love the flexibility I'm afforded, bouncing from style to style, in order to treat my taste buds and build up my knowledge base.
One of the guys at AHBS suggested mini-mashes when I restarted back in January, citing what I've already mentioned and he was very right.

Beerrific said:

Can you elaborate on this "twang?" Maybe this is what my beers have that I am trying to identify.

Does PM eliminate this?

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If we're all thinking of the same thing, it's just this taste that other good beers don't have. Not all that bad, but I'd like to see if I can get rid of it. Like I said going to go PM for a couple of reasons, and hopefully it does get rid of it.

Ahh the twang!

Personally I don't like it one bit, it seems to detract from the beers to me, reminds me that I made it (not the good kind of reminder).

I think its related to carmelization of the extract. I know that my extract beers have all had a little of the extract burned on the bottom of the brew kettle.

I've since moved to partial mash with late malt extract additions. keeping the ME out of the wort until almost the end of the boil prevents some of the carmelization.
I'll be bottling my first one of those beers next weekend, and racking the second one to secondary on tuesday.

I wish I had known this was going to happen a long time ago, I'm about to dump the 3rd batch all together becuase of how bad it tastes.

I wish we could exchange twang-y beer to see if we are talking about the same things. I kind of identify the taste as slightly sour, I am also debating the possibility of having an infection. But I have gone over everything and can't figure it out. . .my first beer didn't have it (half and half DME, LME). But it was there in force in the 2nd and 3rd (all LME).

I am going to try to do a partial mash with late boil malt addition see if this helps.

It is going to be quite a project to get the hops right.

Beerrific said:

I wish we could exchange twang-y beer to see if we are talking about the same things. I kind of identify the taste as slightly sour, I am also debating the possibility of having an infection. But I have gone over everything and can't figure it out. . .my first beer didn't have it (half and half DME, LME). But it was there in force in the 2nd and 3rd (all LME).

I am going to try to do a partial mash with late boil malt addition see if this helps.

It is going to be quite a project to get the hops right.

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Use DME, not LME if you are going to do late addition (for color) and post your recipe in the late extract addition thread. Someone will convert the hops amounts for you.

I was having problem with the twang when I was using LME. I have since switched to using all DME and the problem seems to have been eliminated.

I am planning to go to partial mash mainly because I want to use some grains that have to be mashed (like Marris Otter) and because I want to step up the amount of involvement I have in making my beers. I would be going AG but don't have the ability to do a full boil.

Kayos said:

Use DME, not LME if you are going to do late addition (for color) and post your recipe in the late extract addition thread. Someone will convert the hops amounts for you.

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Thanks,

I am planning on getting DME. Does anyone know if AHS will sub DME for LME (I would pay any price difference)?

I want to use there Kolsch kit, but I guess I can buy the ingredients on my own.

I too have experienced something like this 'twang' in all my kit brews. I could not place the taste, but it is similar throughout all the brews I made.
So, too officially kick a dead horse, if I were to steep my grains, adjust hops as needed, boil and add my DME in the last few minutes of the boil, say when I am adding my finishing hops, I can be rid of this 'twangy' taste without messing up my original intended taste profile?
YEAH BABY!!!!!
Thanks all
"That'll do Donkey, that'll do"

Just my 2 cents on this: my biggest leaps in quality came when I switched to partial mash, when I started using liquid yeast, and when I got my aeration kit.

WRT to the partial mashing, overall, the bigger your grain/extract ratio is, the better the beer will be (general rule, there are exceptions). I didn't notice a big jump in quality on my first AG, and I still do PM's alongside my AG's.

In other words, I HIGHLY recommend going PM, and using as much grain as is possible given your brewing infrastructure.

I havent started partial mashing yet but my first liquid yeast beer was opened tonight and it's definitely the best thus far.

My first liquid yeast beer has yet to carb and is taking its sweet ass time!

It does taste much better than the two batches before.

efreem01 said:

My first liquid yeast beer has yet to carb and is taking its sweet ass time!

It does taste much better than the two batches before.

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How long did it age in secondary? Did you repitch any new yeast at bottling?

I went to AG because all of my beers had a similar flavor that, after a dozen batches, I was getting sick of. Made my first AG and that taste is completely absent.

Evan! said:

How long did it age in secondary? Did you repitch any new yeast at bottling?

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If i remember, i left it in the primary for around 10 days and 2 weeks in the secondary. I took my time because i'd been having trouble getting the FG below 1.02. This brew came down to 1.016 i think. About repitching yeast, i used whatever yeast was in suspension to carb the beer.