Great Divide Collette (Saison) Clone Wanted

I'm looking for a clone recipe or just some thoughts on how to put one together for this refreshing brew. Its kinda fruity and not as dry despite the abv as some saisons can be. My main questions are (1) which saison yeast to use for this type of flavor, (2) if/what spices i should use, (3) the label mentions using rice which I've never done before, so how to incorporate that. Any and all help is appreciated. Here is what the label/website says about it:

Colette is our homage to the beers that Belgian farm workers have enjoyed for centuries. Brewed with barley, wheat and rice and fermented at high temperatures with a special blend of four different yeast strains, Colette is fruity and slightly tart, with a dry finish that makes it that rarest of treats - a beer as refreshing as it is complex. 7.3% ABV

I would also love a clone of this

I started a thread a few days ago looking to clone Colette as well. Didn't get many responses, so I've decided to just give it a try based on what I know and then make adjustments as needed. I posted the recipe that I am going to try in that thread - check it out, I'd love any input from others who like this beer. Hopefully I'll be brewing it within a week or so, I'll post updates in my thread.

-Adam

i'd like to know if the yeast in the bottle is the fermenting yeast.. I'd like to get into propagating yeast and this would be a delicious start.

theonetrueruss said:

i'd like to know if the yeast in the bottle is the fermenting yeast..

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I'm hoping it is. I am going to make up a starter tonight with the dregs of 3 bottles of Collette and try it out. My thinking is that since the yeast is such a big part of a saison's taste that they would most likely want to use the same yeast in the bottles.

Any updates on this?

I'm looking into doing a saison.

Sorry, no updates yet - this got pushed back in the rotation due to some special requests I had to brew over the past few weeks. I stepped up the starter I made with the bottle dregs a couple times and then put it in the fridge until I'm ready to use it. I should be brewing this up within the next week or two, I'll update when I do.
In the meantime, if you're looking to brew a saison I recently made a clone of Surly brewing's "cynicalE" saison and have been absolutely loving it. I'm not sure how close it is to the origional, since Surly only distributes in the Minneapolis area, but it is a really good American saison. It's a nice golden amber color, a really refreshing crisp flavor, and it has some subtle hints of spice and fruitiness even though I didn't use any fruit or spices. Let me know if you are interested and I'll post the recipe for you.

-Adam

I'd like to see that recipe. I had the CynicAle at the ACBF in Boston and like it fairly well.

Yeah, I'd like to see the recipe, too.

Here's the recipe:
"Surly Cynic" ( 5 gallons, 6 gallon boil )

- 8 lbs., 12 oz. Belgian pilsner malt (I used Franco-Belges)
- 10 oz. Simpsons golden naked oats
- 10 oz. Acidulated malt
- 10 oz. Belgian aromatic

- 1/4oz. Styrian Goldings pellet hops(3.4% AA)(first wort-add while draining mash to kettle)
- 1/4oz. Columbus pellet hops(13.9% AA)(60 min.)
- 1-3/4oz. Styrian Goldings pellet hops(3.4% AA)(5 min.)

- WLP550 Belgian Ale yeast (or you can use Wyeast 3522 Belgian Ardennes)

single infusion mash, 148 degrees for 60 min., mashout to 168 degrees for 10 min. Primary fermentation for 7 days at 70 degrees, transfer to secondary and let temp. rise to 75-78 degrees for 10-14 days. Carbonate well, about 3-3.5 volumes(I used about 5.25 oz. corn sugar)

This stuff is tasty and has been going quick, I definately will brew it again. I also have a partial mash version if you don't do all grain. Let me know if you want that version.

I finally brewed up the first Collette clone attempt. The starter I made with dregs from 3 bottles seems to be working well, it was fermenting vigorously within 5 hours. I tweaked my origional recipe and used flaked wheat instead of wheat malt. The recipe I ended up using:
"Collette-ish" (3 gallons, 3.25 gallon boil)

- 3 lbs. Belgian pilsner malt
- 1.75 lbs. 2row
- 10 oz. flaked wheat
- 6 oz. flaked rice
- 4 oz. Belgian aromatic

- 0.5 oz. Mt. Hood pellets(5.5% AA), 60 min.
- 0.5 oz. Mt. Hood pellets(5.5% AA), 10 min.
- 1.0 oz. Strisselpalt pellets(2.6% AA), 5 min.

I have it in primary right now at about 69 degrees, after a week I plan on transferring to secondary and letting the temp. rise to 75-79 degrees for a couple more weeks. Can't wait to see how it turns out.

Hey AdamWiz, how did it turn out? I was thinking about using your recipe with wyeast 3726. Any adivce?

It turned out really, really good. Most people who tried it have said it was my best saison yet. Unfortunately, all I have left of it is one bottle. I have never used Wyeast 3726, but I'm sure most any saison-type yeast would be fine. Better yet, you may want to pitch that as well as some other saison yeast strain since Great Divide uses a blend of multiple strains on Collette. Maybe pitch the 3726 along with something like WY3711 (French Saison) or some dregs from a commercial saison. I used cultured dregs from Collette bottles and loved the results. But that takes a lot more time and effort than just pitching a ready culture, plus Collette is harder and harder to find around here, so I will probably experiment with some different yeasts on this recipe once the weather warms up. I usually only do saisons in the summer since I don't like messing around with heating pads and such. A couple tweaks I would make would be to increase the amount of flaked rice a bit, and to use all Belgian Pils malt instead of the blend of that and regular 2-row that I used(I only used the 2-row because I didn't have as much Pilsen malt on hand as I thought at the time). The real Collette was a touch lighter and crisper tasting than mine, those changes should remedy that. I also will definitely scale it up and do a full 5 gallon batch next time. I actually have a picture and notes from the side by side tasting I did on the other Colette thread, just search "Colette clone" and you should find it. If you end up brewing this, let me know how it turns out with with the different yeast.
Cheers,

Adam

What were your OG and FG?

OG was 1.056, FG was about 1.010-1.012. So it came out at about 5.9% ABV.

**EDIT: After going over my brewday notes, it looks like I ended up after the boil at about 2.75 gallons and gravity of about 1.062. I added a bit of pre-boiled water to get the volume to just over 3 gallons and gravity to about 1.056 ( I was using a new MLT for the first time and lost more in the system than I was used to). So the boil was actually started at just barely over 3 gallons instead of the 3.25 I was going for. After that brewday, I started calculating my 3 gallon recipes to get a preboil volume of about 3.75 gallons so I didn't have to mess with adding water at the end. Sorry for the confusion - I guess I'll have to get on brewing this again so I can post a more accurate recipe.

Thanks for the recipe/inspiration Wiz.

So, I went for it this past weekend, with your suggestions; my first Saison:

<<5 gallon batch>>

-10 lbs Belgian Pilsner malt
-.5 lbs Belgian aromatic
-1 lb Flaked rice
-1.25 lbs Flaked wheat

-1 oz. Crystal pellets 5.2%AA, 60min.
-1 oz. Crystal pellets 5.2%AA, 10min.
-2 oz. Strisselpalt pellets 2.0%AA, 5min.

Mashed 122 deg. / 20 min. and 154 deg. / 60 min.

OG = 1.061

Pitched Wyeast 3724 (belgian saison) and 3726 (farmhouse) @ 75 deg.

Day 1: Fermenting within 3 hours 75-80 deg.
Day 2: 80-85 deg.
Day 3: a steady 90 degs. and the airlock is a chugg'n

I plan to keep it at 90 deg. for Days 3 & 4 and then ramp down to around 68 deg. I'll check the SG at Day 7 and report back.


AND....I almost forgot to mention that I got Frankenstein going on the side:

- 2.5 gallons of the second runnings from this mash (SG 1.020)
- 1.5lb DryAmericanWeizen malt extract
- .5 oz. fuggle pellets 4.7%AA / 40 min.
- .5 oz. fuggle pellets 4.7%AA / 15 min.

Boiled this down to make a 2 gallon batch (OG 1.054) and I pitched a weak starter made from Goose Island Pere Jacques and a package of s05.

I haven't had this particular Saison but the majority of the characteristic of a Saison usually comes from the yeast. I'd start there, culturing dregs to a pitchable rate.

Ok, this turned out great. It's still green but very flavorfull and good head retention. I fermented the 3724/26 in the 90's. No fusel whatsoever. Thanks Wiz.

I emailed Great Divide and promptly got this response -

"Thanks for your email and for drinking Great Divide. Unfortunately, all of our beers are proprietary, so we cannot give out any recipe info. I can say that it is a mix of 4 different yeast strains.

Sorry, I wish I could be more of a help. Have a great day!

Cheers,
Hanna Laney
Word Nerd
Great Divide Brewing Company"

I am going to harvest their yeast as well and give it a try on a saison of my own.

GTG

GTG said:

I emailed Great Divide and promptly got this response -

"Thanks for your email and for drinking Great Divide. Unfortunately, all of our beers are proprietary, so we cannot give out any recipe info. I can say that it is a mix of 4 different yeast strains.

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That's weak. And it's really nice and informative of them to give you info that is already right on the label - that it uses 4 different yeast strains. Most craft breweries, even the biggest and most successful ones, are very open and helpful about general recipes and whatnot to homebrewers. They don't see us as competition, in fact homebrewers are a huge customer base for micros. I'm not sure who I've heard say this, but people who are overly secretive about a recipe or a yeast strain are ususally so protective because they don't have many recipes that are very good. Either that or it's just plain arrogance. Either way, any brewer who is secretive about recipes is a ****** in my book. It's just beer, for crying out loud. It ain't the missile launch codes. It's not like they reinvented beer, like their recipe is so revolutionary. I'm sure it's still grains, water, hops, and yeast. Would it kill them to give us a little info about the percentages and types? That's why Bell's is so cool. Contact them anytime, and they will tell you general recipe proportions, hop types, gravities, anything you need. But Great Divide is apparently threatened by the possibility of a 5-gallon homebrewer somehow stealing all their business.

That is pretty weak. My wife and I split a 6 of Collette last night. I made a 1030 starter, put a ferm wrap on it and this morning it's chugging right along.

This is one of my favorite Summer beers. I live about 3 miles from the Great Divide brewery and use to buy Colette by the keg. Here is my 5 gallon recipe I came up with:

5# Pilsner malt
2# Pale Wheat malt
2# Flaked Rice
1# Flaked Barley

.5 ounce Cascade for 60 min.
.5 ounce Cascade for 8 min.

I harvested yeast from 12 bottles of the real Colette (just to be safe L.O.L.)

I did a single infusion mash at 165 degrees for 1 hour. I pitched the yeast hotter than I normally would at 79 degrees, but Great Divide's website does say that it's fermented at high temperatures. My original gravity was 1.060
I finished (I think it's finished fermenting) at 1.014, giving me a temp corrected ABV of 6.1% My pipeline is empty (I know, mortal sin) so I filled 3 Grolsch bottles after 4 days in the primary. Chilled one down, popped it open (yes it did POP!) and to my surprise it was completely carbed after 8 hours at 85 degrees ambient! I think the taste is spot on, which is surprising because I lost control of the fermentation temperatures the second day and my digital thermometer read 89 degrees in the beer! I live in Denver and it was 100 degrees outside. I was totally depressed, figuring I had just made some wonderful Bubblegum beer I got the primary temps down to 69 after about 8 hours of hotness. No "off" flavors whatsoever! Like Revvy said in one of his post, "Don't give up on your beer." Can't wait to see how my Colette clone ages. (If I can keep my hands off of her)