Understanding my "hoppy" friends

Here is what I am trying to understand.

I have several friends that love "big hoppy beers" And it seems like it is almost a badge of honor how "big and hoppy" each beer they drink and are a little snobby about it all.

Now I like IPA's do not get me wrong. I personally do not like ones that are high in alcohol - say 7% + ... I personally taste more sweet than I care for.

There lies my question. They "love hops - the more the better" but it seems to me hops lend different things. Bitter, Flavor and aroma. It seems to me that while an Arogant Bastard has more hops than a Sierra Nevada lets say... AG is more bitter and does not have that finish hop taste that I really like.

Therefore, in someways .. I respond I like hops too but I like big late additions like "Cascades / Orange Pale Ale" recipe in the recipe section.

I get a poor response and that "one day" I might be a true hop head.

My point to them is .. yes I can add 3x more hops to a beer but if I balance it with malt is it really more hops?

Maybe I am not making my point... but I wanted some reaction to I am sure not a new happening.

Thanks guys.
T

I agree with you completely. Sometimes more is just more.

A similar pet peeve that I have is when people rate beers that are in different categories and always rate the more aggressive style as "better". Obviously you can't compare a IIPA to a PA for the level of flavours, but it is quite possible that the PA is a higher quality product according to the set standards.

Anyway, just my 2 cents.

I think what your trying to say, all summed up nice and neat is:

You have a better appreciation for the hop/malt relationship than your friends, and because they don't understand it as well as you, they say "one day...."

Not to worry, there are many people that like highly bitter beer from excess bittering additions. Others like a well balanced beer that has large addtions of flavor and aroma. Unfortunately you probably won't find many commercial beers that you consider well balanced. the answer to this problem is to brew for yourself. If your friends don't like your beer then **** them, they dont have to drink it. Circle K is right down the street.
I agree with you on AB, I find it overly bitter with little to offer in hop flavor.

I think that as one sinks deeper into the world of beer, one's palate undergoes significant changes. I'll use myself as an example: When I first started down this long and winding road, I loved the black stuff. The darker, the better. I had discovered those wonderful roasty flavors and couldn't get enough.

Flash forward to the following summer. As the sun returned to the northern hemisphere I found myself drifting toward the hoppier beers. As I discovered the wonderful range of hop flavors & various bittering preceptions, I found that I couldn't get enough hops. Once again, the more the better.

Currently I find that there is a beer for all times & seasons. I've come to appreciate balanced formulas & sustainable flavor experiences. I still love a Bell's Expedition Stout and I still love a Weyerbacher Double Simcoe IPA, but when I walk through the door I'm more likely to reach for a Southampton Altbier, a Great Lakes Conway's Irish Ale, or a Homebrewed Hefeweizen.

It's a big, big world. Cheers!

sounds to me like you know a helluva lot more about it than your buddies.....

Take DFH 60 vs 90. The 90 has more ibus but the 60 is much less balanced and is more bitter. Most all IIPAs I come across are too sweet for me. Waaay too much balance going on.
So I made my own. With an OG under 50 and IBUs north of 80 it's damn hoppy.

z987k said:

Take DFH 60 vs 90. The 90 has more ibus but the 60 is much less balanced and is more bitter. Most all IIPAs I come across are too sweet for me. Waaay too much balance going on.
So I made my own. With an OG under 50 and IBUs north of 80 it's damn hoppy.

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You need some West Coast IPAs.

Being from San Diego, home of Stone, Alesmith, Port Brewing, etc, hoppy is the name of the game around here. One trip to O'Brien's on Convoy (self proclaimed "Hoppiest Place on Earth" where you can buy printed "I *shamrock* Hops" apparel) and you will be assaulted by hop-bomb after hop-bomb. When I first began my beer-loving quest I didn't touch anything that wasn't like drinking a garden.

But nowadays, I relax with German Hef and Lager, enjoy Steam Beers, cherish the rich character of an Irish Stout, and search for the malt complexity alongside the hoppiness of an American Pale Ale.

Beer tastes mature as you realize that no beer is unworthy of the educated palate. There will always be your first love to go back to, but by branching out and learning to enjoy the wide variety of beautiful flavors that each different style produces you can truly be called a conneiuseur.

Don't mind your friends. There are only so many Imperial IPA's on the market to keep them longing for new beer adventures. As for you, there are hundreds of beer styles and regions open to you.

Cheers mate

Thanks for the perspective. And do not get me wrong. I prefer a APA over say a brown ale. It is not that I do not like or hops.

Thanks all.
I will get some new friends. And I agree, they do not like my nice APA and want to grab an IIPA I will not take it personally. More for me.

Some cooks (especially inexperienced ones) can't put enough garlic in their dishes. I know some backyard grill masters that marinate ribeyes until you can't taste the meat anymore...it's a soy/salt fest. Some people like their chicken wings so hot all you get is 'heat'. I did all of these when I was much younger. But then I guess my tastes changed because uber-garlic and over-marinated prime cuts and chernobyl-wings just didn't appeal to me anymore. I still love garlic and soy sauce and chicken wings but with balance.

I like hops but I like beer more so I need balance.

Give your friends time...their tastes will mature and become more refined over time.

No different from guys who rate chili by how hot it is or figure the best truck is the one with the biggest tires.

I'm glad there's a thread about this.

Almost all "never enough hops for me" guys I run into don't know very much about beer. They latch onto hoppy beers for some reason, probably because it's the most prominent flavor characteristic, and massive amounts of it must make it good. It's a little obnoxious.

I consider myself a student of beer, and while I LOVE a double IPA as much as the next "hophead", you aren't a beer connoisseur if you only drink hop bombs. They are probably my favorite style too, but I can't stand people who poo-poo all other beer styles.

I've seen a lotta different angles taken on this in this thread and others, but let me try to explain it another way.

I didn't care for the beers that people always suggested, when I first started looking for something more in beer, about 20 years ago. 'Oh, you'll like this wheat then.' Ahhh, NO. I hate wheat beers. Still. 'Well if you don't like wheat, you'd probably like a porter; you're not against dark beers, are you?' No, dark beers, blond beers, pales, browns, reds; I don't care what color it is, I just wanna like it. But I really don't get excited by porters. Boring. 'Well, maybe a brown'. NO. Browns are boring, and most are too sweet. 'Maybe you'd like this Belgian.'

Worst yet. They never said 'how about a taste of all of them before you decide.' Craft beer was pretty new back then.

But one day, (and this after 2 or 3 years of intermittently trying to find a craft beer that made it all make sense), I explained how long I had been trying to find a beer that I actually LIKED a lot, they said 'try this IPA.' I didn't know what an IPA, was until she explained it. That made me think 'this is REALLY gonna suck!', so with no expectation of 'enjoy', I said I'd try it.

I took a half-hearted whiff. PPOOOOOM! My eyes shot open and I think my spine tingled a little. I tasted it. I was immediately addicted. It was a moderately bitter 7.5% Columbus well aroma'd and heavily dry-hopped single IPA. It was the smell. Period. The effect of the DH smell and the late addition taste had me and hasn't let me go. I really like Columbus or Centennial, in a mostly dry, single IPA; IIPA's I don't care for. Or a big, dry chocolate/coffee stout, well late hopped. Ed Wort's Haus Ale is AWESOME at about 5%, with the Vienna, and different hops. I've had reds that were good, pales that were awesome; nutbrowns, well DH'd, are really, really good.

Sweet beers are out. I love to eat grains, all different kinds of ways; but I don't like drinking wheat. I don't care about chocolate nibs or coffee grounds, or fruits or sours, or casks, or barleywines, or wee-heavy's or high bitter or hot peppers or wild yeasts or pork in my beer. Grains, hops, yeast and water, that's all I want. But for me it's still all about the beer; I'm just a lot more particular than some people. And I don't care about beer-judging styles, and staying true to style, I'll try it and if I like it, then I like it.

People are different, that's all, and there's no accounting for taste-what people like, is what they like and that's that. If someone drinks any kind of craft beer,and especially if they also brew, I take them for what they are, because to me, it's all about the beer.

I hear you guys! I got made fun of by my brother's punk friend (early twenties) for ordering a golden ale at a bar. He was a hop bomb addict. Bigger is not always better.

Take tits. Tits are great, but more isn't necessarily better, especially if they are 'balanced' with the rest of the body. : )

BeehiveBrewer said:

I hear you guys! I got made fun of by my brother's punk friend (early twenties) for ordering a golden ale at a bar. He was a hop bomb addict. Bigger is not always better.

Take tits. Tits are great, but more isn't necessarily better, especially if they are 'balanced' with the rest of the body. : )

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:rockin: I never made the connection before but tits are a perfect analogy for beer!

Some people like pungent, stinky cheese. Doesn't mean they know less about cheese. Or that they don't have a good palate because their favorite cheese isn't smooth. People have different tastes.

tagz said:

Some people like pungent, stinky cheese. Doesn't mean they know less about cheese. Or that they don't have a good palate because their favorite cheese isn't smooth. People have different tastes.

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That's true. I know beer nerds with very sophisticated palates who are still hopheads. Not me though. I prefer balance and a variety of flavors that come from more than just one ingredient (hops). The only IPA I drink anymore is the occasional Pliny or someone's homebrew.

I love hoppy beers but appreciate all beer styles. If I find one i dont like so much I just dont drink it again for awhile then come back when my taste changes.

Beer is lovely.

I'm sitting here reading this thread drinking one of my All-In! Ales (it's actually a Coopers Australian Pale Ale with a 2oz cascade dry hop for 10 days after fermentatuion died down)..
I have told one or two others that I guess I would lower it to 1 oz. but I like this batch SO much I can't make myself believe myself! Kinda sad really.
Enjoy what YOU like and point the naysayers towards their local beermart!

I too like hops, I love them. They are great but they are not the be all end all of making good beer.

Hops are a plant estrogen. You will get man boobs if you drink too much hoppy beer and are a male. The man does not benefit from hops. The menopausal woman will benefit much more fun hops.

There are many herbs/plants that have the same antibacterial properties of hops that can be used. Mugwort was used in beer before hops. I used mugwort in my first batch. It was drinkable. I was happy.

The effect of other plants and herbs can be more inebriating than the hop. The chemicals in hop plants are a sedative. Hop plants are very close in genetic code to cannabis.They of course lack THC.

I think it is time to brew beer from herbs again for medicinal value and good inebriating cheer.

Hops in beer also have different conditioning factors. Hop oils break down. A highly hopped beer might be offensively bitter to one person or the greatest too an other. In a year or two the hoppy character will break down and bring more malt backbone.

It is a subjective taste when it comes to malt and hop balance. Some will always like upfront hop bitter while others might like more malty.

Most agree that having a good hop/malt balance makes certain beers more remarkable than others. Dog Fish 120 minute comes to mind. Its a good beer, but its simply a preference.

For me it boils down to this:

It is alright to be a 'hop head' and prefer the hoppiest and most bitter beers.

I believe that whatever your preference, you should be able to taste any style and decide whether that beer is a good representation of the style whether or not it is your favorite style.

Actually, none of this matters. Brew and drink what you like!

All good points.

My original point was that I don't appreciate hophead guys who instantly dismiss all other beers as inferior because their not >70 IBU's.

To me that's incredibly narrow.

When I first started out drinking beer, I could enjoy a Coors light, or Michelob Light. Everything else was too strong. Later, after I got to be of drinking age I made my own beer. An American Light style. Tasted ok (considering it was out of a can) and I started trying different beers. I was still intimidated by stronger beers, but my curiosity got me to try things that most people I knew had never heard of.

Eventually I got to try an IPA. It was very bitter, but yet there was something about it that intrigued me. After I had tried a few, I found that I could actually taste the hops, and not just the bitter. I wanted MORE! So I tried all the IPAs I could find and discovered that there are some that I liked, and some I didn't as much.

I found out that I preferred IPA with the American flavors. And, the more the better!

Recently, after nearly finishing off a 5Galon keg of Michigan Brewing Company High Seas IPA, I found that I was getting tired of it and even though I hadn't had a dark beer in a while, I thought I'd try one at a restaurant. That Porter was delicious! I also tried some lighter beers and really liked them as well.

Well, I eventually got back to wanting to drink an IPA again, so last night I opened a bottle of Founders Centennial. AWESUM! Each little drink put a smile on my face.

I think that to each their own, and some people really enjoy more hops! Some people like VERY HOT food (science says that the receptors in our mouths are all different, and some people have their hot senses wired to their pleasure centers). That stuff is not for me. I like mild hot.

I would not worry about your buddies. Let them have their fun, you drink what you like. I'm not big on stouts, and I really can't stand sour beers, but practically everything else I really like!