List of PJ Electrical Diagrams

67cougargt,

This is a great idea.

Please share when the post goes up.

P-J said:

P-J is here every day.

My problem now is my version of Windows. The computer I have only supports up to Windows XP and I need to upgrade to a much later PC version to move to a more current version of windows. XP is no longer supported by anyone. I cannot afford the cost of replacing my computer. SO SORRY....

Bottom line -- Getting very old just plainly sucks.

My personal web site no longer supports Windows XP. I can no longer upload diagrams to post on this very important (FOR ME) forum. Basically - The root of my problem in posting info and diagrams.

So sorry to every one. Maya Culpa..

P-J

(Edit) Getting old sucks. I'll be 75 next month. Still pitching & hope I last a liitle more time. Lots of stuff for me to do..

P-J
(/edit)

Click to expand...

PJ, would you mind doing a "test" and trying to upload a file or 2 to my web-server, can send you details to PM if you're interested

NOT SURE if ImageComposer will even run properly under Win7 or above (my copy seems to have registry issues but it's only 1.0)
SHOULD be just a case of adding FPSE or WebDAV to IIS so it works with ImageComposer

i believe that i have a refurbished windows 7 machine that PJ can have (wiped clean, clean OS install). i will confirm in the next day or three.

Awesome if not let us know I am sure someone will have one.

I merged a couple of PJ's diagrams together for my system and it tested flawlessly on first startup. Very pleased and very grateful for the work you have put in here. These pictures were progress photos, the wiring is cleaned up a lot better now.

P-J, I just wanted to say thanks again for all your advice and detailed documentation you've provided. I wanted to speak with you prior to the BYO people reaching out to you but as I understand it they have already talked with you. I hope that it was no problem that your work will be published in an upcoming article, I was sure to give many thanks to you and I just wanted you to know it couldn't have been done without you. Hopefully you know what I'm talking about with regards to the article.

TNugent said:

P-J, I just wanted to say thanks again for all your advice and detailed documentation you've provided. I wanted to speak with you prior to the BYO people reaching out to you but as I understand it they have already talked with you. I hope that it was no problem that your work will be published in an upcoming article, I was sure to give many thanks to you and I just wanted you to know it couldn't have been done without you. Hopefully you know what I'm talking about with regards to the article.

Click to expand...

Trent (and PJ):

I might as well chime in here and come clean too - The editor of BYO ran your article and PJ's electrical diagram by me too asking for my opinion as I've worked with them in the past on various things.

Generally speaking I thought the article was well written and well thought out (good work). I told them that there are a few things I would have done differently, but that everyone has different needs. From a factual standpoint I didn't find anything "incorrect" about the technical things, which is of course good.

The only thing was I was leery with them including is how the e-stop is wired (shorting power to ground). I recommended that they leave that out as I feel it's an unsafe practice. She ran my thoughts past another electrical engineer who builds UL listed industrial control panels and he agreed with me so the diagram was changed. So you can blame me for that change. At first I didn't think a wiring diagram was going to be included so I only recommended they drop the one or two lines in the write-up that explain how the e-stop works. But once the diagram was also sent to me some changes had to also be done to it (as PJ already knows as they contacted him for the edits).

Congrats to both of you on the write-up! It's slated for the Jan/Feb issue.

Kal

Looks like I'll be subscribing to BYO

kal said:

Trent:

I might as well chime in here and come clean too - The editor of BYO ran your article and PJ's electrical diagram by me too asking for my opinion as I've worked with them in the past on various things.

Generally speaking I thought the article was well written and well thought out (good work). I told them that there are a few things I would have done differently, but that everyone has different needs. From a factual standpoint I didn't find anything "incorrect" about the technical things, which is of course good.

The only thing was I was leery with them including is how the e-stop is wired (shorting power to ground). I recommended that they leave that out as I feel it's an unsafe practice. She ran my thoughts past another electrical engineer who builds UL listed industrial control panels and he agreed with me so the diagram was changed. So you can blame me for that change. At first I didn't think a wiring diagram was going to be included so I only recommended they drop the one or two lines in the write-up that explain how the e-stop works. But once the diagram was also sent to me some changes had to be done to it as PJ already knows as they contacted him for the edits.

Congrats on the write-up! It's slated for the Jan/Feb issue.

Kal

Click to expand...

Thanks Kal, I've been lacking in contacting everyone that helped in some form or another. I'm glad they spoke to you and got your input as well, you were definitely a source of inspiration to me.

With regards to the E-Stop I chose to defer to the experts in that matter as I knew there were many others who knew better than I so I'm glad that all worked out.

I saw a sneak peak of the article yesterday and am looking forward to receive the Magazine next month. This has been a work in progress for quite some time but I didn't want to say anything and jinx it until I knew it was really going to happen.

kal said:

Trent (and PJ):
...

The only thing was I was leery with them including is how the e-stop is wired (shorting power to ground). I recommended that they leave that out as I feel it's an unsafe practice.

...

Click to expand...

Just a very curious question for all to ponder:

How does a GFCI circuit breaker test button work?

The E-Stop only allows:

"EPO - wired to trip GFCI main circuit breaker
with small leakage current. ( 0.06A)"

Anyway, you all do as you wish. No problem here.

P-J

P-J said:

Just a very curious question for all to ponder:

How does a GFCI circuit breaker test button work?

The E-Stop only allows:

"EPO - wired to trip GFCI main circuit breaker
with small leakage current. ( 0.06A)"

Anyway, you all do as you wish. No problem here.

P-J

Click to expand...

Nice Socratic method, lol. We have certainly beaten this issue to death before, so I will try not to do it again. The worst thing that can happen when wired correctly is that the GFCI fails and the estop doesn't stop. Test your GFCI before every brew session and it is highly likely to work. Other methods can work too.

Yes

No?

GFCI's are for wussies. Brew like a man damnit!

OatStraw said:

Single Element BIAB 30A PID

Click to expand...

Electrical noob question:
Where the feed comes in, I see there are 4 terminal strips, one for each wire. But what do the circles at each split throughout the diagram mean? How do I split the wires? Do I use another terminal strip or run separate wires from the terminal strips where the wires originally come in? What about the wires coming from the switches "X2" and "24" that combine into 1? Do I put another terminal strip there or is there a better way?

So you can do it any number of ways. You can run each wire independently from the terminal strips, or you can pull off anywhere else in the panel. For example, the X2 and 24 portion on the siwtch - just run a short jumper wire from X2 to 24, and then a second wire from either X2 or 24 to the outlet. The wiring diagram is conceptual in nature - the wiring can be run however you need, so long as the connections are made as shown on the drawing. As in, you can do the X2 and 24 switch wiring however, so long as you're not pulling a wire from all the way back at the panel (keep all downstream wiring downstream, all upstream wiring upstream, etc).

Hope that clears a few things up.
-Kevin

BadNewsBrewery said:

So you can do it any number of ways. You can run each wire independently from the terminal strips, or you can pull off anywhere else in the panel. For example, the X2 and 24 portion on the siwtch - just run a short jumper wire from X2 to 24, and then a second wire from either X2 or 24 to the outlet. The wiring diagram is conceptual in nature - the wiring can be run however you need, so long as the connections are made as shown on the drawing. As in, you can do the X2 and 24 switch wiring however, so long as you're not pulling a wire from all the way back at the panel (keep all downstream wiring downstream, all upstream wiring upstream, etc).



Hope that clears a few things up.

-Kevin

Click to expand...

Makes sense now. Thanks.

Is there a wiring diagram for a 120 volt, 15 amp, single element, single pump panel using standard cheapo light switches? Would a contactor be necessary at the element? This is using a 5500 watt 240v element wired at 120v. I wasn't planning on an e stop switch but if it's necessary I'll certainly incorporate one.

Also, can anyone provide a link to the actual fuses used in some of these diagrams?

[edit] sorry! found one close enough in the mix on post 2. Still wondering about the fuses though.

This is the diagram that best suites me, only I'm building for RIMS. Can this diagram be rewired so that the element can't fire if the pump isn't switched on? The 4a fuse presents a problem, I assume it's bad practice to move it to the other side of the switch? Otherwise I would just move the fuse after the pump switch and run element power after the switch but before the fuse.

You can run your two switches in series - switch one sends power to the pump and to the second switch. Switch 2 sends power to the heating element. Switch 2 can only turn on the element if switch 1 is turned on. You would need to make sure that switch 1 is rated for the combined amperage of the pump AND the heating element, as power for both will be flowing through it. Switch 2 only needs to be rated for the heating element. There are other more complicated ways you could set it up, but that's pretty much the easiest.

Go ahead and move the fuse after the switch, it will still function to protect the pump.

Fuses can be found quite easily at Radio Shack, including a variety of holders.
-Kevin

Opinions on this? Would you be comfortable with it?

This is for RIMS tube, heating element is 1375 Watts at 120v. Light switch, outlets, and wiring will be rated 20A for good measure.

Can a duplex light switch safely be wired in this manner or should I use two single switches?

Changes I made were removing the e-stop, removing the fuse to my pid, removing pid power switch, and moving the pump fuse to after the switch to allow the pump and element switches to work in series.



(edit) If the pump fuse blows the element could still be fired... Thoughts/solutions?

thekraken said:

(edit) If the pump fuse blows the element could still be fired... Thoughts/solutions?

Click to expand...

You could power the wall wart after the 4A fuse. You'd lose Uno power, but it could be better than a burned mash. Of course you'd need the pump on the power the Uno. Ditching the series switches for a relay or contactor would probably be best in this situation. Maybe someone will have a clever solution to this

Question. How does the coil rating of a contactor work? I see PJs diagrams often call for a 240v 30A contactor with 120v coil. What if the coil was rated at 240v?

nwestby said:

Question. How does the coil rating of a contactor work? I see PJs diagrams often call for a 240v 30A contactor with 120v coil. What if the coil was rated at 240v?

Click to expand...

This refers to the voltage required to operate the coil and close the contacts of the contactor. Instead of the coil getting L1 and neutral, it gets L1 and L2. Either one (or both) can be routed through a switch.

What if I just used one main fuse at at the mains entrance in the control box like this updated drawing. IF this would be OKAY what size fuse would I need?


I was planning on wiring this thing up for 20 amps while it should only require 15, a little shopping around revealed that 20A duplex light switches aint cheap. Would 15A be sufficient?

The fuse as you show it there would need to be sized for the pump and the element - the element draws a lot more, so it'd be a large (15+a) fuse. So it's not really protecting the pump, which is only supposed to draw 1.4... Plus you'd technically want to run larger sized wiring to keep it matched with the fuses.

Okay, what about this revision:

You have your element running through the 4A fast blow - not good.

Suggest you start your own thread instead of hijacking this thread for your personal project.

Quick question. I'm planning a build based off the diagram below. This may have been already answered, but are these just standard 40A SSRs shown in this diagram? I noticed they look slightly different than the SSRs in the other diagrams.

BadNewsBrewery said:

You have your element running through the 4A fast blow - not good.

Click to expand...

I tried to route the element just through the contactor, and just the pump through the fuse in such a way that if the fuse blows the contactor breaks the element connection. Did I mess this up?

Suggest you start your own thread instead of hijacking this thread for your personal project.

Click to expand...

Sorry. my drawings are based on PJ's diagrams, I figured this was the best place to ask questions. Anyone who needs a schem for a 120v single element single pump RIMS system doesn't quite have an ideal example at the start of this thread, I figured this would contribute to the discussion. (Arduino can be directly swapped for off the shelf PID)

Dubchedford said:

Quick question. I'm planning a build based off the diagram below. This may have been already answered, but are these just standard 40A SSRs shown in this diagram? I noticed they look slightly different than the SSRs in the other diagrams.

Click to expand...

yes, they are

Dubchedford said:

Quick question. I'm planning a build based off the diagram below. This may have been already answered, but are these just standard 40A SSRs shown in this diagram? I noticed they look slightly different than the SSRs in the other diagrams.

Click to expand...

The SSRs are the same. I used that SSR layout as they are narrow & fit on the page. The other illustrations I use are much wider and would occupy too much space in that particular diagram.

Hope that makes sense.

P-J

P-J said:

The SSRs are the same. I used that SSR layout as they are narrow & fit on the page. The other illustrations I use are much wider and would occupy too much space in that particular diagram.

Hope that makes sense.

P-J

Click to expand...

Perfect! I figured they were, but I just wanted to make sure. Thanks again for all of the help P-J

thekraken said:

I tried to route the element just through the contactor, and just the pump through the fuse in such a way that if the fuse blows the contactor breaks the element connection. Did I mess this up?

Click to expand...

You're right - I looked at it wrong. The coil is fed off the 4a fuse, but the element itself isn't. You're spot on.

thekraken said:

Sorry. my drawings are based on PJ's diagrams, I figured this was the best place to ask questions. Anyone who needs a schem for a 120v single element single pump RIMS system doesn't quite have an ideal example at the start of this thread, I figured this would contribute to the discussion. (Arduino can be directly swapped for off the shelf PID)

Click to expand...

No worries - I just thought you were getting further into development. I think at the beginning, this was supposed to be a repository of diagrams that had been looked at and validated, so someone could come in here and find a diagram that is known to work. When the thread (d)evolves into diagram development, the 'proven to work' portion is lost. Someone coming in here to find a usable diagram will get lost amongst the multiple itterations of people trying to develop the diagram. Not only you, but plenty of folks. So I was thinking maybe you'd get better input and feedback from folks that have abandoned this thread, but are still willing to help.

Of course, you do as you wish - I'm not the internet police, and I'll still try and help as best I can.

I'd like to have a light indicator I'm assuming the 30A 5500 Single Element PID diagram you can just add the light in the same way as the 4500 Single Element no pump PID diagram, correct?

Also can I use something like these rockers instead of the toggle:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/USA-Red-Light-On-off-Rocker-Switch-250V-15-AMP-125-20A-/141219601284

Also, the diagrams don't show a heat sink but I see a lot of builds have them, are they required or suggested or ?? Can you tell I'm a newbee?

A heat sink is required on any and all SSRs.

Some people put them inside their (sealed) control panels. I prefer to have them outside so that they can release the heat and not cook everything in the panel, shortening the lifespan of not only the SSR, but all of the other electronic devices that use parts that are prone to failure due to heat (most notably electrolytic capacitors).

Kal

kal said:

A heat sink is required on any and all SSRs.

Some people put them inside their (sealed) control panels. I prefer to have them outside so that they can release the heat and not cook everything in the panel, shortening the lifespan of not only the SSR, but all of the other electronic devices that use parts that are prone to failure due to heat (most notably electrolytic capacitors).

Kal

Click to expand...

Thanks, can I mount it to the back or top of the box then cut a hole big enough for the ssr to stick though and connect it that way? I'm assuming a bigger heat sink is better?

theck said:

Thanks, can I mount it to the back or top of the box then cut a hole big enough for the ssr to stick though and connect it that way? I'm assuming a bigger heat sink is better?

Click to expand...

Correct on all accounts.

I went with an oversized heat sink myself. Pictures:

















More details/steps here.

Kal

Cool thanks for the info... I plan on doing a super simple build (one 5500, pid, no pumps, no extras) so that might be way way overkill?

theck said:

Cool thanks for the info... I plan on doing a super simple build (one 5500, pid, no pumps, no extras) so that might be way way overkill?

Click to expand...

For a single SSR, yes. I would still recommend putting the heat sink outside and using a heat sink meant for a larger SSR than you need. There are no "rules" as to heat sink size so many of the bargain sellers are supplying undersized heat sinks with their SSRs and expecting you to use a fan.

Kal