Sour Beer Questions

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Bottoms_Up

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 15, 2013
Messages
543
Reaction score
121
Location
Ontario, Canada
This is my first attempt at making a sour beer (Rodenbach clone) and didn't realize what I was in for until after I began making it. I apologize if these questions have been asked before, but there are 97 sour beer threads and not enough time to go through them all.

I made a 2 liter starter using Wyeast 3763 (Roeslare) a week or so ago (I read later that I likely should not have made a starter, but I was worried tha tthe Wyeast package might not have been too viable).

I brewed the beer 4 days ago (last Saturday) and pitched the yeast that day. The beer is in a large plastic fermenting pail with lid and fermentation lock. The next morning (Sunday) it was bubbling 112 times per minute, but by the evening it went down to 13 times per minute. Yesterday morning it was bubbling only once every 31 seconds. I took a specific gravity reading and it was already at 1.018.

Questions:

1. Is it usual for this type of yeast blend to start so actively and then slow down to such an extent in only a half day?

2. Should I rack this beer into a secondary glass carboy at this time, or wait? If so, how much longer should I wait? Or should I not transfer it at all?

3. If I do transfer to a carboy, will there still be enough bacteria in suspension to ensure the formation of a pellicle?

4. Should I fill up the carboy as close to the neck as possible, or use a larger carboy so that there will be surface area on which the pellicle can float?

5. Approximately how long does it usually take for the pellicle to form?

6. Can I use an ordinary fermentation lock on the carboy, or should I use a piece of oak?

7. If I add oak chips to the carboy, can I leave them in for the full time until ready to keg? Or should I add them after a few months?

Thank you.
 
This is my first attempt at making a sour beer (Rodenbach clone) and didn't realize what I was in for until after I began making it. I apologize if these questions have been asked before, but there are 97 sour beer threads and not enough time to go through them all.

I made a 2 liter starter using Wyeast 3763 (Roeslare) a week or so ago (I read later that I likely should not have made a starter, but I was worried tha tthe Wyeast package might not have been too viable).

I brewed the beer 4 days ago (last Saturday) and pitched the yeast that day. The beer is in a large plastic fermenting pail with lid and fermentation lock. The next morning (Sunday) it was bubbling 112 times per minute, but by the evening it went down to 13 times per minute. Yesterday morning it was bubbling only once every 31 seconds. I took a specific gravity reading and it was already at 1.018.

Questions:

1. Is it usual for this type of yeast blend to start so actively and then slow down to such an extent in only a half day?
Looks like you had a big starter and the yeast just powered through the wort. What is your starting gravity? Best just relax and not count each bubble as it comes out. You are far from done with this beer

2. Should I rack this beer into a secondary glass carboy at this time, or wait? If so, how much longer should I wait? Or should I not transfer it at all?
I personally wont transfer it. Wait a couple of weeks before transferring (if you decide) to clear the beer but I do not remove my sours from the yeast cake.

3. If I do transfer to a carboy, will there still be enough bacteria in suspension to ensure the formation of a pellicle?
pellicle forms when the beer meets with Oxygen. I started fermentation with bugs and all and rarely get pellicle. If you transfer you will get one. Its not important

4. Should I fill up the carboy as close to the neck as possible, or use a larger carboy so that there will be surface area on which the pellicle can float?
Best to have very little head space to limit aceto bacteria (acetic acid aka vinager) to form if you move it.

5. Approximately how long does it usually take for the pellicle to form?
again pellicle doesnt matter that much

6. Can I use an ordinary fermentation lock on the carboy, or should I use a piece of oak?
Normal airlock will be fine. Just check every so often that it still has liquid

7. If I add oak chips to the carboy, can I leave them in for the full time until ready to keg? Or should I add them after a few months?
Depends on how much oak you want. I'll suggest to leave them until you keg/bottle

Thank you.

Look above for answers. Hope this helps. You are many months away from when this beer is ready. Place it in a closet and forget about it for a couple of months before even touching or testing.
 
the pellicle only is the bacteria protecting itself form oxygen. My last 2 sours barely had any signs of one since I didnt constantly sample from them and the carboy neck whole is pretty small

only thing i'd add to above is if you add in some of your favorite commercial sour dregs, the increased microbe diversity should get things moving along much quicker. Having a decent amount of brett is alwways important two with most conventionally made sours
 
Since I have a related question I didn't want to create a brand new thread.

Is there an advantage to pitching Roselare directly from the smack pack? Other than keeping the yeast/bacteria ratios the same as whats in the pack. Since the starter messes that up, thats why the common advice is to not use a starter for roselare.

I'll be starting a sour with a pack of Roselare and due to the advice to skip a starter, I am curious about my pitching rate for a sour. I was thinking of just throwing the pack in, with a small starter or another neutral yeast (probably German Ale 1007 since its been a good work horse for me). My OG will be around 1.060-1.070 (haven't finalized my recipe yet) so I know a single smack pack of anything really isn't the perfect choice.
 
Pitch rates really aren't all that important for a mixed fermentation sour. I'd just stick to the smack pack and let it ride.
 
Questions:

1. Is it usual for this type of yeast blend to start so actively and then slow down to such an extent in only a half day?

Looks like you had a big starter and the yeast just powered through the wort. What is your starting gravity? Best just relax and not count each bubble as it comes out. You are far from done with this beer

The starting gravity was 1.052. Because the fermentation has slowed down to such an extent, I hope there's enough yeast left to get it down to +/- 1.012.

2. Should I rack this beer into a secondary glass carboy at this time, or wait? If so, how much longer should I wait? Or should I not transfer it at all?

I personally wont transfer it. Wait a couple of weeks before transferring (if you decide) to clear the beer but I do not remove my sours from the yeast cake.

So, if I do transfer it, are you saying that I should transfer ALL of it - the yeast cake along with the rest of the trub?

Thanks for your help!
 
only thing i'd add to above is if you add in some of your favorite commercial sour dregs, the increased microbe diversity should get things moving along much quicker. Having a decent amount of brett is alwways important two with most conventionally made sours

Wish I could - unfortunately, Rodenbach is not available here.
 
Best advice I can give is to go ahead and start reading all of those sour beer threads. You'll make it through most of them before your beer is ready to drink.
 
The starting gravity was 1.052. Because the fermentation has slowed down to such an extent, I hope there's enough yeast left to get it down to +/- 1.012.



So, if I do transfer it, are you saying that I should transfer ALL of it - the yeast cake along with the rest of the trub?

Thanks for your help!

The yeast should eat away even more. Brett takes its time and has a lag time. It should be pretty dry.

Just transfer the beer. you can grab some trub to get some of the yeast back. you can fill the carboy with co2 before transferring to limit O2
 
Thank you everyone, for all the great advice! As suggested, I'll keep the beer on the cake for another two weeks (three weeks in all). Then I'll siphon it into a carboy, minimizing the head space as much as possible, and flushing with CO2. I'll also siphon off a little of the yeast cake to ensure that there will be enough yeast, Brett, etc. to carry on for the next several months. I'll just leave the carboy out of sight and mind, and check it again in another 6-8 months.
 
Yeah, the same reason New Belgium pasteurizes their sours. It's about controlling the product exactly the way the brewery wants it. Unfortunately, it's the best the day it was packaged, and all downhill from there. I've had some 2YO NB sours that should have been awesome, but ended up being drain pours.
 
Back
Top