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jsguitar

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To get to the main points of the thread;

1) The wiring diagram I used is here and I have since swapped the original element selector switch with a NKK S833 for its high capacity rating. Check here and here for details.

2) The official panel build starts here and continues here, here , and here

3) A couple of odds and ends are here

4) brewery as set up last year is here

5) controller with labels is here

6) some info on hole sizes here

7) current small reworking of system and other brewery updates here

8) I'm currently updating my elements and a couple of other things which I will post soon!

Below is my first request for help....



I usually brew 10.75 gallons. I have two keggles for a HLT and BK and a 70 qt cooler for MT. I have a 30 amp dryer outlet (three prong) that will be wired to a 50 amp GFCI (thanks P-J!) with a 4 wire outlet.

I'm looking to use a 5500 W element in the HLT and BK to be used one at a time along with a single pump. I batch sparge in two batches and don't anticipate doing a herms or rims.

I'd like to be able to control the HLT with a pid to reach a set temperature, boil using a pid to adjust the percentage of power, and turn my pump on and off from the same panel. I don't want a bunch of extraneous features. An emergency shutoff is a plus and a failsafe for the ssr's in case they fail at some point seems wise.

I have a Sampson Servo 550 poweramp that I was hoping to use in some way.

http://www.samsontech.com/products/productpage.cfm?prodID=81&brandID=2

It has a big heatsink and I was thinking I might be able to use the case and some other components from it.

Any links or plans to point me to? I've been reading and reading but there's a lot of variations on these things.

Thanks!
 
If you havent' already, check out kal's site, theelectricbrewery.com

He does have as many features as one would ever need, but he does go into extreme detail on every step. I used his site as a springboard to my own panel.

FWIW, I dont use an HLT (yet) and have an e-keggle connected to a panel that has a PID, SSR, mechanical relay (for physical disconnect of power), two lights, and a switch. I used Kal's links to buy the components and scanned eBay for the panel. I'm an electrochemist by education so wiring it was a joy for me. I also don't have pumps (again, yet) so I gravity feed everything.

Hope this helps. Going electric was one of the best homebrew decisions I've made since I decided to keg instead of bottle everything :D
 
Thanks! I actually bought Kal's ebook because I was so impressed with his design and thoroughness. It's been very helpful.

I'm excited about going electric too. I've wanted to for a long time.
:mug:
 
P-J, that looks great! Thank you for taking the time to help. Exactly what I was looking for. I like the idea of using one pid and just switching the elements. Simple and effective.
:mug:
 
P-J I'm going through the same process and looking at your drawing should the e-stop go to ground or neutral? I thought the gfci breaker monitored the neutral.
 
P-J I'm going through the same process and looking at your drawing should the e-stop go to ground or neutral? I thought the gfci breaker monitored the neutral.

The GFCI breaker monitors both hot lines and the neutral. The 3 lines must be in balance. Any leakage current will cause the GFCI to trip. The e-stop I drew provides a small leakage current to ground. That leakage current disrupts the balance and will trip it.

I put the info in the legend at the bottom of the diagram.

EPO - wired to trip GFCI main circuit breaker
with small leakage current. ( 0.06A)


Hope this helps.
 
Is there enough room on the back of the Auber box to get all of the receptacles and heatsink mounted? I was going to use the heatsink I have, but it's 12"x4.5"x2" so I was thinking of just using Auber's heatsink sticking out the back if I can get all of the receptacles in there too. Seems like it might be a tight fit so I was considering some other enclosure options before I make my Auberin's order.

Edit: Nevermind, I think I'm going to cut my big heatsink and mount it on top of the box. I'll post pics once I get some things going on it.
 
P-J,

The 25 amp DPDT switch listed in the diagram doesn't come up at Mouser. I'm guessing it's not available anymore. Do you have another reccommendation?

Thanks for your help.
 
Ok,

So I decided to jump in and build this controller as designed by P-J. I ordered a ton a stuff that I haven't received yet for the box and the heater elements. I did get my Auberins.com order of a project box, PID, SSR, RTD, and RTD panel connector.

After looking at a few builds using the Auber box, and finding that I had a large rectangular heat sink, I decided to mount it on the outside, on top of the box ala Kal's method. So today I thought through where the main components would be and decided where the SSR should be and cut a hole for it and cut my oversized heat sink down to size with a dremel /reinforced cutting disk. Took a while to do.

The only issue I see with mounting the SSR on top is that to open the box I'll need to have plenty of wire going to the SSR and some sort of stress relief so I don't yank the wires off when I take the top off.

Here's some pics:

1.jpg


2.jpg


4.jpg


5.jpg


6.jpg
 
Some more:

Nothing's actually mounted yet. It's just sitting there for the time being.


Ok, time for some homebrew.

7.jpg


8.jpg


9.jpg


10.jpg
 
It's looking realy nice. I wish you every success with your project and if I can help please ask.

P-J

Edit: An after thought: Re: the long wires going to the lid. No worries about it. Just leave them long enough so that you can lay the lid upside down next to the base. Zip tie or tape the wires so that it becomes a cable (sort of).
 
Edit: An after thought: Re: the long wires going to the lid. No worries about it. Just leave them long enough so that you can lay the lid upside down next to the base. Zip tie or tape the wires so that it becomes a cable (sort of).

Will do, thanks.
 
P-J, I've decided that I'd like to add a single indicator light to show when power is going to either one of the elements. Can you amend the diagram and suggest a light or two if you get the time?

Thanks!
 
P-J, I've decided that I'd like to add a single indicator light to show when power is going to either one of the elements. Can you amend the diagram and suggest a light or two if you get the time?

Thanks!
Ok. I hope you are ready for this as it becomes a little more complicated. BTW, I totally agree that an indicator light is needed to ensure some additional level of comfort with the system. The lamp will indicate if the switch is powering either element circuit.

The double pole - double throw - center off - switch needs to be changed out to a - Triple Pole - Double Throw - Center Off - switch in order to accommodate the indicator lamp.
Mouser PN 633-S33-RO (click it).
The indicator lamp shown is this one from
grainger.com PN 1XWL6 (click it). {BTW - the lamp is actually Amber in color. If you want a green one it's pn 1XWL4. Red is pn 1XWL1}


Now the new diagram (click on the image for a full scale drawing printable on tabloid paper 11" x 17")



Where else are you going to get a custom diagram.
ROTFLMAO.gif


I really enjoy the mind jumps I go through to come up with the plans.
I sure hope this helps you.

Best regards,
P-J
 
Thanks again P-J for coming to the rescue with your awesome diagrams. I should've considered it sooner but you know how it goes. I'm going to add this in. As you say, it's a little piece of mind to keep me from accidentally leaving an element on.

Ok, no more changes, starting....now! :)
 
Thanks again P-J for coming to the rescue with your awesome diagrams. I should've considered it sooner but you know how it goes. I'm going to add this in. As you say, it's a little piece of mind to keep me from accidentally leaving an element on.

Ok, no more changes, starting....now! :)

You are more than welcome. When you get it done and test it all out (brew some beer) be sure to update the thread with some more with pictures. I'd like to see it all.
Ok, no more changes, starting....now!

Wait, wait - Now what am I going to do with my time?

Spoil sport!
 
Got most of everything I need finally.

I just planned out the front and back panels and drilled the front.

Here's what the front panel looks like with the switches attached. I used a step drill. I ended up having to enlarge the holes a bit after the second pic. I really undersized the E-stop switch initially for some reason.

The first switch is for the PID, then HLT/BK elements switch with indicator light above, then the two pump switches and the big yellow-so you can't miss it even if your buzzed- e-stop switch.

I have a lot of time this week so I'm going to shoot for finishing it and my kettles before the end of the next weekend.

plan1.jpg


holesandbeer.jpg


frontpanel.jpg
 
jsguitar/P-J, thanks for starting this thread & the drawings. This is the the same simple setup I've been considering. This is a another step for me to pull the trigger.

jsguitar - can't wait to see the finished product.
 
Now the new diagram (click on the image for a full scale drawing printable on tabloid paper 11" x 17")



Where else are you going to get a custom diagram.
ROTFLMAO.gif


I really enjoy the mind jumps I go through to come up with the plans.
I sure hope this helps you.

Best regards,
P-J

P-J, can you show me what this would look like with a 3 way switch for the elements (HLT/OFF/BOIL) & an indicator for both elements? A couple of other things I am considering - a power switch for the whole panel (or is that the thought of the e-stop to use it?) & also a timer with a alarm switch, reset button & buzzer.
 
P-J, can you show me what this would look like with a 3 way switch for the elements (HLT/OFF/BOIL) & an indicator for both elements? A couple of other things I am considering - a power switch for the whole panel (or is that the thought of the e-stop to use it?) & also a timer with a alarm switch, reset button & buzzer.
ZooKeeper,

The diagram you asked for is done. I changed the original in this thread to add a second indicator light to show which element is selected. The master power switch request will jump you build expense quite a bit. That change would require an additional switch and a contactor. I feel it is really not necessary. Everything is controlled through the existing switches. (You should never be working inside the controller while it is plugged in anyway. The EPO is designed to kill all power in the event of an emergency. It will do just that but you MUST have a GFCI circuit breaker either in your mains panel or in a sub panel feeding your brewery.)

I added the circuits to implement the Auber Instruments Timer. How you use it and wire its output is totally up to you. The ASL-51 Timer Manual can be found With This Link.

Now for the diagram: (Click on the image for the full scale image - printable on Tabloid paper 11" x 17")



I hope this helps you.
 
Wow P-J! You rock! I've been looking at Kal's website thinking I would never be able to afford an electric brewery. This puts it in reach for sure!

Jsguitar, what kind of RTD or thermocouple are you going to use?
 
Wow P-J! You rock! I've been looking at Kal's website thinking I would never be able to afford an electric brewery. This puts it in reach for sure!

Jsguitar, what kind of RTD or thermocouple are you going to use?
Just seeing you response pleases me more than you could imagine. I'm glad that you can use it for a build.

Not Jsguitar, but, I'd recommend a RTD probe from Auber Instruments.
Liquid Tight RTD Sensor, 4” probe, Weldless Fitting
The one in the link can be directly mounted to a kettle. My reason for using a RTD probe is that they are more accurate and, unlike the type K probe, they are very easy to install and wire. (The type K probes use 2 different metals for the leads. If you add plain wire to the leads you create another sensor junction at that connection.)

Hope this helps.
 
ZooKeeper,

The diagram you asked for is done. I changed the original in this thread to add a second indicator light to show which element is selected. The master power switch request will jump you build expense quite a bit. That change would require an additional switch and a contactor. I feel it is really not necessary. Everything is controlled through the existing switches. (You should never be working inside the controller while it is plugged in anyway. The EPO is designed to kill all power in the event of an emergency. It will do just that but you MUST have a GFCI circuit breaker either in your mains panel or in a sub panel feeding your brewery.)

I added the circuits for implement the Auber Instruments Timer. How you use it and wire its output is totally up to you. The ASL-51 Timer Manual can be found With This Link.

Now for the diagram: (Click on the image for the full scale image - printable on Tabloid paper 11" x 17")

I hope this helps you.

P-J, good comments on the master switch. As always, awesome work & thanks for the quick turnaround!

I plan to start putting together my parts list this weekend and hope to do the build this summer.
 
Ok, I got it put together!

I can't test it fully yet for a couple of reasons. I had a leak in a sight glass and am waiting on the replacement for that and I also damaged my element in the boil kettle because my hole was just a tiny bit too small. It got stuck so I ended up using a piece of wood and a hammer to get it out. It looked liked I knocked the base loose so I ordered a replacement.

I also have to clean and organize my basement in order to make space in the laundry room. Not looking forward to that.

I tested it with my multimeter a lot along the way, checking continuity at every point before powering it up and checking voltage at the outlets once it was powered. I'll need to hook up the rtd probe later and figure out the pid to check everything, but at this point everything seems perfect.

I had some small tragedies with the hole saw. I'm an idiot with a hole saw apparently and it took me a while to realize I needed to make a template by cutting a hole in a piece of wood to guide the thing. I had only drilled a pilot hole and clamped a piece of wood behind it at first. I broke the first pilot bit in the mandrel trying to make a hole for the GFCI outlet....it snapped and the saw jumped. I didn't learn. I then broke another I had, and then bent drill bits I used as guides. :mad: I finally got it cut and then proceeded to destroy the back of the control panel! I finally got it right after that with the template and it was a breeze.

Anyway, you'll see that I filed, sanded, and painted the gouges in the GFCI and control panel. For the GFCI, I used the gray primer and silver hammered metal paint that I was using for the element boxes. For the control panel I used a flat black 2000 degree auto exhaust paint. It worked well and I used it on the front too to clean up some smaller scratches and nicks.

Disclaimer: I'm not an electrician, so do not use my electrical work as a guide. This is dangerous! Consult an electrician!

Pic 1: hole saw tragedy on back of control panel
Pic 2: damaged bits
Pic 3: template
Pic 4: filed and sanded gouges out
Pic 5: final back of panel after painting


More pics in next post.

tragedy.jpg


tools (.jpg


Jig.jpg


after filing and sanding.jpg


after paint.jpg
 
Ok, so here are more

Pic 1: Initially, I put the RTD panel connect a little too close to the cord grip. I found a metal washer, clamped it to a spot a little bit down and to the left so that it covered the old hole too and then I drilled it out. I painted the washer as well. I got it right where I wanted it and it covered the previous spot.

Pic 2: same

Pic 3: bottom inside with terminal strips mounted--I didn't leave much room at the front which made wiring the switches challenging but it all fit

More pics coming!

moved rtd down diagonally.jpg


RTDmoved:washer.jpg


Bottom inside.jpg
 
Pic 1: P-J's e-stop. Twisted and soldered the resistors and covered with heat shrink at P-J's suggestion. I actually covered them with another layer of heat shrink to cover them completely after this as well to beef it up in order to run it with the other wires.

Pic 2. Soldering RTD connects. Followed advise on forum to tin each, connect, and solder. To get the wire fully in the tiny connector, I used a small knife to help push it into the pin as I soldered. This was a pain. I used two vises for this.

Pics 3-5: various wiring shots. I used panel mount fuse holders which made things more difficult but will be easier in the future. I was going to run the 10 gauge wire to the fuses and the 14 gauge after but the fuse holders I had had solder lug holes that actually were too small even for the 14 gauge. My understanding is that since the fuse is the first thing the wire goes to, that this is an ok practice. To get the wires in the holes for soldering I had to drill them out just a tiny bit. They are all rated at 15 amps despite their wimpyness. It was one thing after another like this!

P-J's E-stop.jpg


solderingrtd.jpg


wiring.jpg


wiring 1.jpg


wiring 2.jpg
 
Power!

I don't have the probe hooked up here and haven't done anything with the pid yet. I checked the outlets and switches with the multimeter. I'll need to have the pid working to check for the full voltage at the element I gather since one of the legs runs through the ssr, but the pump outlets worked, pid is obviously on, the element switch worked, the e-stop worked instantly. I checked the power between one of the legs on each 240 outlet and ground while switching and that seemed to work perfectly.

I'll probably play with the PID and probe tonight after some food. This has been a challenging project. I can't tell you how many times I cut off an already crimped connecter because I didn't have the length just right. A lot of fun though. I'll update when I set up the pid and test with probe.

Thanks again P-J for your guidance on this. I really appreciate it!

power!.jpg
 
Here's a final wiring shot I forgot to add. I added a ground wire to the top of the box and put a big piece of heat shrink on the wires going to the top to better protect the wires when opening.

wiring4.jpg
 
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