10 Gallons: Bottle Conditioning with Cider?

Hey all!

I have 10 gallons of cider in secondaries. Here's proof:


Its my first time doing cider, so I'm starting to look at my options. I'm going to try a few different things to see what pans out, and what works out best for me.

I'll probably put a few gallons in wine bottles and let them sit at least a year. Half of these will be sweetened with wine conditioner, the other half dry.

The rest will likely be carbonated in beer bottles. I like some dry, and I know I can use priming sugar and bottle condition the cider dry, but what about sweetening with more cider? If I do this, is it likely to start a secondary fermentation and blow up my beer bottles? Has anyone tried this?

A related question might be, what SG can I raise the liquid up to and still safely bottle condition?

Edit: I do not have the tools for forced carbonation.

never done this, but theoretically you should be able to figure it out.

For example, let's say you want to bottle your 10 gallons to 2.5 volumes of CO2. Using this online calculator - http://www.tastybrew.com/calculators/priming.html - and assuming a temp of 68 degrees F, you would need 8.4 ounces of table sugar. 8.4 ounces of table sugar in 10 gallons of liquid will increase your gravity by 2.4 points (sucrose has a gravity potential of 46 points per pound per gallon).

So, if you add enough cider to increase your gravity by 2.4 points, you'll end up with approximately 2.5 volumes of CO2 (assuming full fermentation of the additional cider)

Assuming an average juice gravity of 1.050 (i.e. 50 points per gallon), you would need to add 1/2 a gallon to your 10 gallons of finished cider to raise the gravity 2.4 points. 1/2 a gallon yields 25 points. 25 points divided by 10.5 gallons (your 10 plus the 1/2 additional) gives you ~2.4 points.

Anyone care to check my math and/or logic?

Excellent reply, thanks very much. I will give this a try!

I want to see if I understand as I am in the same boat. I have 5 gallons of cider fermenting right now. It had a SG of 1050 and an estimated FG of .995. The Tastybrew calculator tells me that I need 3.6oz of dextrose. Is this by volume or weight? Do I add this to my secondary fermenter just before bottling? Actually it sounds like racking to an intermediate carboy, add dextrose, then rack to bottles would be the way to go.

Thanks,
David

dmulligan said:

I want to see if I understand as I am in the same boat. I have 5 gallons of cider fermenting right now. It had a SG of 1050 and an estimated FG of .995. The Tastybrew calculator tells me that I need 3.6oz of dextrose. Is this by volume or weight? Do I add this to my secondary fermenter just before bottling? Actually it sounds like racking to an intermediate carboy, add dextrose, then rack to bottles would be the way to go.

Thanks,
David

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3.6 oz of dextrose is by weight. Typically you pour the measured dextrose into a bottling bucket or primary (carboy works, but is less convenient) and rack the wort onto the dextrose. Sometimes this is enough to mix it, but I usually will slowly stir the mixture with a large sanitized spoon to be sure the dextrose is blended properly.

jevchance said:

3.6 oz of dextrose is by weight. Typically you pour the measured dextrose into a bottling bucket or primary (carboy works, but is less convenient) and rack the wort onto the dextrose. Sometimes this is enough to mix it, but I usually will slowly stir the mixture with a large sanitized spoon to be sure the dextrose is blended properly.

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Exactly. It is just standard beer bottling procedure, but with cider instead of beer.

Great! Thanks for the advice on racking. This is my first try at fermenting anything.

The more I think about it the more I think that I want to use juice rather than sugar to carbonate it. I was just looking through the recipes and found Sam's Choice Sparkling Cider which talks about using juice to carbonate by looking at the sugar content of the juice and doing a little math.

Update:

I bottled 5 of my 10 gallons tonight. Here's the information I went with (hoping I didn't make bottle bombs).

I used JLem's calculations above, but decided to go with 3 pints instead of 2.

Starting gravity: 0.99
Gravity before bottling: 1.02

I'm pretty happy with that, so I bottled it. Keep your fingers crossed! If it works out, I'll start a new thread for possible sticky.

jevchance said:

I used JLem's calculations above,

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Man, I hope you don't get any bottle bombs (or uncarbed cider)

jevchance said:

Update:

I bottled 5 of my 10 gallons tonight. Here's the information I went with (hoping I didn't make bottle bombs).

I used JLem's calculations above, but decided to go with 3 pints instead of 2.

Starting gravity: 0.99
Gravity before bottling: 1.02

I'm pretty happy with that, so I bottled it. Keep your fingers crossed! If it works out, I'll start a new thread for possible sticky.

Click to expand...

Any updates to offer? Did this work?

JLem said:

Any updates to offer? Did this work?

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Yes it did work! We have carboation, and no bottle bombs as of yet, however I have a different problem.

The product is giving off a sulfury aftertaste. Not sure why, but I'm hoping it will settle with time.

I just tested out some EC-1118 on a 3 liter batch of apple cider. They were done in a week, but I also have a sulfury smell. Bottle conditioned for 1 week, still smells a little. I have 2 liters left I'll let sit for another 3 weeks and then I'll check it out. How did the rest of your batch turn out?

The dryness is the problem I have had in making cider in the past. I don't like the bone-dry 1.00 gravity stuff that is about 10-15% alcohol. I want to make a good "beery" cider. What I mean is, something that has some residual sugars left over, like a finishing gravity of around 1.010 or thereabouts. I also only want to alcohol content to be about 5-6% like a normal beer. Basically, I want to make something similar to Hornsby's or Woodchuck cider.

What I am currently doing is fermenting 5 gallons of locally farmed, pasteurized cider. I have been taking gravity readings every day and finally started cold crashing the stuff this morning now that it was at 1.011. After cold crashing to let it clarify for a while, I am going to bottle it in glass bottles, and a couple of plastic 14oz or 20oz bottles. The plastic bottles will be used to tell how carbonated the cider is. I figure after a few days if I squeeze the plastic bottles and they feel pressurized, I will toss the glass bottles into the oven at 170F for 10-20 minutes to kill off any yeast/bacteria, then refrigerate and call it good.

icanbenchurcat said:

I just tested out some EC-1118 on a 3 liter batch of apple cider. They were done in a week, but I also have a sulfury smell. Bottle conditioned for 1 week, still smells a little. I have 2 liters left I'll let sit for another 3 weeks and then I'll check it out. How did the rest of your batch turn out?

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I also used EC-1118 yeast the first time I fermented apple juice in attempt to make cider. From what I understand, this is a wine yeast, which means it will take quite a bit of time (aging) after being bottled before it is drinkable and it will improve with more aging. I heard that you will get a better product if you wait a couple months after bottling before tasting it.

I fermented my latest 5 gallon batch with WLP001 California Ale yeast. As this is a beer yeast, I believe the end product should be drinkable in a shorter amount of time, like weeks after bottling rather than months.

My OG was 1.050 and FG is 1.011. So the fact that it is only 5-6% ABV may also help it to be drinkable sooner than a high alcohol wine.

icanbenchurcat said:

I just tested out some EC-1118 on a 3 liter batch of apple cider. They were done in a week, but I also have a sulfury smell. Bottle conditioned for 1 week, still smells a little. I have 2 liters left I'll let sit for another 3 weeks and then I'll check it out. How did the rest of your batch turn out?

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That sulphur should age out in time. For future brews, you can minimize & often even completely avoid that sulphur by using yeast nutrient / yeast energizer / D.A.P. (Diammonium Phosphate). I've switched to an ale yeast (Nottingham) for my ciders, it gives me what I think is a much better tasting end product.
Regards, GF.

I'll have to try some nutrients next time I stop by the lhbs. Thanks!