B nektar dwarf invasion clone recipe needed

I had some b nektar dwarf invasion to. It's awesome. I want to clone it, but have never made a mead. It is described as a hopped mead and I had found in my research that they use Styrian Goldings hops.

Can anyone help me with the cloning of this delicious drink? How much honey should I use? When do I add the hops? When do I add the cherry juice?

I would like to do a five gallon batch

Help please

Looking at the b nectar site and the description. Here is my thoughts on a good 5 gallon clone:

5 gallon Dwarf Invasion clone

5.5 lb of wild flower honey (target gravity of 1.040)
6 tsp yeast nutrient
3 tsp yeast energizer
Water to 5 gallons
Wyeast 1388 - Belgian Strong Ale
5 crushed Camden tablets
5 36fl oz "just tart cherry juice" (with honey or water to adjust gravity to 1.040)
Wyeast 3277 Belgian Lambic Blend
1oz Styrian Goldings hops

The process:

Mix the starting honey and water together and mix well. Combine the yeast nutrient and energizer and pitch in 4 tsp of it into the primary. The Wyeast 1388 yeast should have had the smack pack started the night before. Pitch the yeast and let her rip. every 24 hours for the next two days add in 1 tsp of your nutrient blend. Make sure to degas this by rocking the fermenter or with vaccume at least twice a day for the first 5-7 days.

When gravity hits .996 - .998 rack into a new carboy and add the Camden tablets. Then in a new 6 or 6.5 gallon carboy add your cherry juice. Make sure it's gravity is adjusted to 1.04 with either water or honey respective of it's original gravity. Start the smack pack for the Wyeast Belgian Lambic Blend and pitch that into the cherry juice when ready.

After 24 hours and it starts to ferment well rack the mead on top of it. Let this ferment dry. Rack to a new container when 1/4 inch of lees is formed and fermentation is finished. Now add 5 crushed Camden and 2.5tsp of sorbate to stabilize. After 24 hours back sweeten with honey to a gravity of 1.02 and add 1oz of your Styrian Goldings hops. Wait 1 week and rack off the hops. Let this bulk age and clear. Rack every 30 days or when 1/4" of lees forms until no sediment drops.

Bottle/keg and enjoy.

Sounds like a brilliant recipe.......

bet its a bit of a f****r to do though.......

if only I could find the tart cherry juice........

fatbloke said:

Sounds like a brilliant recipe.......

bet its a bit of a f****r to do though.......

if only I could find the tart cherry juice........

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I don't know about across the pond over there but every time I want to use cherry juice I use "Just tart cherry juice" made by R. W. Knudsen.

Arpolis said:

I don't know about across the pond over there but every time I want to use cherry juice I use "Just tart cherry juice" made by R. W. Knudsen.

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Not routinely available here in any form that I'm aware of.......

Whoa awesome. Thank u
I am cautious about using the wyeast 3277. I have heard that u need to use all Different equipment when using lambic and then can only use it for lambic stuff going forward. Is this true?

In terms of difficulty how hard is this going to be? Easy? moderate? Hard? Make a deal with the devil?
I have been brewing less than a year, should I pack this one away till I have some easier clones under my belt before attempting this?

Eh I think it should be ok on the hardness level. It is not a throw together and place in a closet and forget recipe but just requires a little attention and a few extra steps. Nothing mind blowing I think.

The Lambic blend contains lactobacillus bacteria that can be an issue. If you are using glass then not an issue. If plastic then every ding and scratch has the ability to keep cleaners from sterilizing this bacteria and it could sour future batches.

I always keep a few Primo 5 gallon water jugs on hand because you can brew something like this in it and when you are done. Take the empty bottle to an exchange center and exchange it for another full water bottle for just a few bucks.

I just had my first bottle of Dwarf Invasion and that stuff is amazing, would love to give this a try but have a couple questions. I'm in Florida and I don't have a carboy fridge or anything to keep this cool while fermenting, my current mead is sitting at 73-75 degrees, is this too warm for this yeast to produce the right flavor? How long does this take to finish, from beginning to bottle conditioning, since you say rack every 30 days? Has anyone tried this recipe?

I said rack every 30 days but that is just kind of a general catch all statement. Most of my meads I rack once or twice before crystal clear with no sediment drop. And that only goes into 6 - 8 weeks of total age. A low ABV mead like this would probably be great at the 45 - 60 day mark just to be safe. Probably will not take long. I have not tried all these ingredients in that order. As stated above is only a theoretical recipe but with all my other uses of that yeast, cherry juice, hops and such in different batches I have yet to have a mead I don't like at the 30 - 60 day mark.

That particular yeast is pretty forgiving. Should be fine in a high nutrient environment as the recipe suggests as long as temps don't get into the high 70*F - 80*F range.

That's awesome, thank you for the info! I have an empty 6 gallon glass carboy that this could be perfect for, hopefully all goes well. As for the honey, will 5.5lbs of wildflower be the best for this or could I substitute orange blossom? And would using more honey here bump up the alcohol a bit?

More honey will always bump up the alcohol but is that what you want? More alcohol means more time the mead needs to calm down the hot alcohol taste. This recipe is one to be quick tangy/tart and delicious as to be drank fast.

You can use orange blossom honey just fine. I think good wildflower honey would compliment well and create distinct flavors but the orange blossom lends more citrusy notes that I bet will blend nicely as well.

I'm new to mead making, so I was just thinking about the 3lbs per gallon of honey required for that. It is good to know I can make a batch with less honey and it may be drinkable sooner with lower alcohol. I will get a nice batch of this going with 6lbs of some orange blossom honey, since that is what I get from my local beekeeper, and would be easier to measure out for me. Thanks for all your help and I will report back how it tastes!

I know this is an older thread, but has anyone tried the clone recipe above? I'd like to start a batch of this when one of my fermenters frees up and I'd like to hear back from anyone who already tried this.

Another random question... about how much honey is used to backsweeten to 1.02? How do you properly mix it to get the correct gravity reading without aerating the mead?

I've been following this thread for a bit and I just started working on the recipe. I think the recipe given is sound, definitely the hops and lambic yeast 3278, which I may drop the other yeast and just do one fermentation to simplify it. Honestly, I've found the best way to experiment with a new recipe is in 1 gallon batches, since it's a little hard to choke down a bad beer/mead when you've made 5+ gallons.

As for the back-sweetening, probably a pound or less, adding a little until you hit the right gravity. I like to mix it with a little warm water or juice, gently pour into the carboy, and then gently swirling it until mixed.

wayned10 said:

I've been following this thread for a bit and I just started working on the recipe. I think the recipe given is sound, definitely the hops and lambic yeast 3278, which I may drop the other yeast and just do one fermentation to simplify it. Honestly, I've found the best way to experiment with a new recipe is in 1 gallon batches, since it's a little hard to choke down a bad beer/mead when you've made 5+ gallons.

As for the back-sweetening, probably a pound or less, adding a little until you hit the right gravity. I like to mix it with a little warm water or juice, gently pour into the carboy, and then gently swirling it until mixed.

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How did this turn out? Was thinking about starting a batch myself. Just bought 2 quarts of wild flower honey which I think is around 3 pounds each so I have to measure out as I go along and adjust accordingly. Wayned where did you get cherry juice, because I'm in Tampa also and have to pick up some. Thinking of kegging it since I wouldn't know how to bottle this without creating bombs (been there have the tee shirt).

Double post

joetownhound said:

How did this turn out? Was thinking about starting a batch myself. Just bought 2 quarts of wild flower honey which I think is around 3 pounds each so I have to measure out as I go along and adjust accordingly. Wayned where did you get cherry juice, because I'm in Tampa also and have to pick up some. Thinking of kegging it since I wouldn't know how to bottle this without creating bombs (been there have the tee shirt).

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I swear I replied to this the other day, I guess the mobile app doesn't like me to comment. Great to hear from someone in the Tampa area! I actually haven't had a moment to make this yet, with all of the competitions and festivals it's been a busy season, but I already have the honey on hand and I plan to get it going this month with a couple of modifications. I'm concerned with the Lambic yeast, since I don't currently have any sour equipment and worry about cross contamination in my other brews, I may just stick with the Wyeast 1388 Belgian Strong Ale since it gives a tart finish.

My idea for this recipe is: 6lbs Orange Blossom Honey, 5 gallons of water, Wyeast 1388 Belgian Strong Ale, Camden tablets, Nutrient (staggered addition), 1oz Pacifica Hops (Orange Marmalade flavor), 1.5 gallons of Just Tart Cherry Juice (I've found at Walmart in our area).

Mix honey and water with 1 tsp yeast nutrient and Belgian yeast, off gas for first 48hrs by swirling carboy and opening airlock to exchange oxygen, then add another tsp nutrient and repeat over next 48hrs, add last tsp nutrient and let it finish for next 7-10 days. Rack to new carboy on top of tart cherry juice, leave for 48hrs or until it reaches 1.020 and add camden tablets to kill yeast (or don't if you want a dry mead), then add 1oz Pacifica hop pellets to carboy for 7 days, cold crash and bottle or keg. This will need a little age, but the less you rack it the better it will turn out. I normally bottle all of my meads and ciders without killing the yeast and haven't ran into any bottle issues, but I never add additional sugar for carbonating and storing them around 70 degrees keeps from getting bombs. Kegging is a good option if you have the room to let is sit for a few weeks at least. Hope this helps and keep me posted if you try the regular version. Good luck!

I'm following the recipe from post #2. I figure I might as well start experimenting with some soured/lambic style meads so that's what I'm going to do.

I started a little over 5 gallons of 1.040 mead on 12/1 and I'm hoping that it reaches its FG of 1.000 or less by early next week so I can get the lambic blend going with the tart cherry juice.

After racking off the lambic blend, I plan on doing either a blueberry or pomegranate sour mead on the yeast cake and let it sit for 8 months or so. I'm still debating if I should add any fruit during primary fermentation on that batch or wait until racking it to secondary.

Anyway, just thought i'd bump this thread and let people know that I'm working on the recipe. I'll keep you all posted on how it goes.

Arpolis said:

Looking at the b nectar site and the description. Here is my thoughts on a good 5 gallon clone:

5 gallon Dwarf Invasion clone

5.5 lb of wild flower honey (target gravity of 1.040)
6 tsp yeast nutrient
3 tsp yeast energizer
Water to 5 gallons
Wyeast 1388 - Belgian Strong Ale
5 crushed Camden tablets
5 36fl oz "just tart cherry juice" (with honey or water to adjust gravity to 1.040)
Wyeast 3277 Belgian Lambic Blend
1oz Styrian Goldings hops

The process:

Mix the starting honey and water together and mix well. Combine the yeast nutrient and energizer and pitch in 4 tsp of it into the primary. The Wyeast 1388 yeast should have had the smack pack started the night before. Pitch the yeast and let her rip. every 24 hours for the next two days add in 1 tsp of your nutrient blend. Make sure to degas this by rocking the fermenter or with vaccume at least twice a day for the first 5-7 days.

When gravity hits .996 - .998 rack into a new carboy and add the Camden tablets. Then in a new 6 or 6.5 gallon carboy add your cherry juice. Make sure it's gravity is adjusted to 1.04 with either water or honey respective of it's original gravity. Start the smack pack for the Wyeast Belgian Lambic Blend and pitch that into the cherry juice when ready.

After 24 hours and it starts to ferment well rack the mead on top of it. Let this ferment dry. Rack to a new container when 1/4 inch of lees is formed and fermentation is finished. Now add 5 crushed Camden and 2.5tsp of sorbate to stabilize. After 24 hours back sweeten with honey to a gravity of 1.02 and add 1oz of your Styrian Goldings hops. Wait 1 week and rack off the hops. Let this bulk age and clear. Rack every 30 days or when 1/4" of lees forms until no sediment drops.

Bottle/keg and enjoy.

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Is it necessary to use the campden tablets before racking the base mead onto the cherry juice? Is the only purpose to try and kill the ale yeast so it doesn't interfere with the lambic blend? I'd rather avoid adding campden tablets if possible to avoid any weird salty/sulfur taste coming through.

I would say it is necessary, the stronger yeast always takes control and would probably consume all the sugars before the Iambic could do it's job. I've yet to have an off flavor with proper aging.

Just to keep anyone updated who's following along and wants to attempt the recipe from post #2, here's an update:

December 29, 2015 - added 5 crushed campden tablets to the starter mead after it reached 1.000. Also started the tart cherry juice / lambic blend.

I used 6 quarts of 'Just tart cherry juice' (OG: 1.054) diluted with 7 cups of water to get it down to the necessary 1.040.

Thanks for the update, I'm interested to see how it finishes up. Also, are you keeping your equipment separate now with the lambic yeast? That could cross contaminate any future brews.

wayned10 said:

Thanks for the update, I'm interested to see how it finishes up. Also, are you keeping your equipment separate now with the lambic yeast? That could cross contaminate any future brews.

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Yeah, I'm using a glass 6.5 gallon carboy which I'm going to try and make my unofficial 'sour' carboy, but since it's glass I'll be able to clean it without too much worry and use it for a regular beer.

I also bought a separate autosiphon/tubing and have a second hydrometer i'm only going to use for this one.

The only things left that I need to buy and dedicate to sours are a beaker for hydrometer readings and maybe a bottling bucket since they're so cheap anyway.

Sounds great can't wait to hear your results.

In a dickish mood today....hate the word "clone" being used re: recipes .... "attempted replication" might be a better choice of words, but doesn't sound cool ....have the same aversion to folks calling a vibrato on a guitar a "trem", "or "whammy" .....semantics, yes...and yeah, I can be a richard at times (spending 28 hours out of 48 working my ass off nonstop nursing night shift can taint one's mood Carry on, folks......just hate that word "clone" when talking about a beer/mead/wine recipe, 'tis silly....no offense, and all

I just combined the base mead with the tart cherry juice (after it had about 26 hours of fermentation).

I stopped at 6.5 gallons since I wanted to leave a little head space in case of some more vigorous fermentation (I don't really know how the lambic blend will behave).

Tart cherry juice w/ Wyeast Lambic Blend (26 hours post pitch)


Racking the base mead into the glass carboy


At home in the 'cellar'

Just following up again. It's been 40 days since I combined the base mead with the tart cherry juice. I just racked 1 gallon onto 1 lb of dark sweet cherries and the rest went into a 5 gallon glass carboy with stabilizers to do some long term aging. I'll add the honey to backsweeten after I'm sure the stabilizers have fully incorporated with the mead and had a chance to do their job.

I tried a sample of it and it tastes really good. I added a few drops of honey to my tasting glass and I think it's going to be great. I'm not really sure when i'm going to dry hop yet. Maybe the same time as back sweetening? I'm not sure how quickly the hop aroma will fade.

The sample:


Racking:

TandemTails said:

Just following up again. It's been 40 days since I combined the base mead with the tart cherry juice. I just racked 1 gallon onto 1 lb of dark sweet cherries and the rest went into a 5 gallon glass carboy with stabilizers to do some long term aging. I'll add the honey to backsweeten after I'm sure the stabilizers have fully incorporated with the mead and had a chance to do their job.

I tried a sample of it and it tastes really good. I added a few drops of honey to my tasting glass and I think it's going to be great. I'm not really sure when i'm going to dry hop yet. Maybe the same time as back sweetening? I'm not sure how quickly the hop aroma will fade.

The sample:

Racking:

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Watching this one with great interest. The mead looks great and can't wait until I could get one going. You rocks TandemTails

February 18, 2016 - I just added 1oz of Golding hops directly to the carboy. I figured trying to get a hop bag out would be a PITA and it's been cold enough in my closet that i think the hops should drop pretty easily. I'll rack off of the hops in 2 weeks at which time I'll also backsweeten with a little over 2 lbs of honey to reach a FG of around 1.015.

Hops and carboy


Hops caused nucleation points for the CO2. Nothing too crazy though

March 1, 2016 -- I racked the mead off the hops and backsweetened with 36oz of honey (targeting around 1.015 FG).

I started yesterday by moving the mead to an elevated shelf that I planned to use for racking so all the hops and lees had time to resettle.

Today I sanitized a 5 gallon carboy and then siphoned out 4.5oz of the mead and combined that with an equal part of water in a pan. To that I added the 36oz of honey and brought up to around 110'F to help dissolve the honey. I added that to the sanitized carboy.

Next, I brought the carboy over and racked the mead on top of it.

The taste test is freaking amazing. It's spot on from what I can remember the Dwarf Invasion tasted like. I'm not getting too much of the hop aroma but it wasn't that pronounced in the original either. I've got one bottle of Dwarf Invasion that i'll do a side-by-side with once this has aged a little more.

The only issue between this and what I remember of the real thing is that mine has lost all carbonation. I don't have a kegging system so I think i'm going to have to live with a still version instead of a very lightly carbonated version.

Getting ready to rack:


Racking complete:


What's the fun in all this if you can't sample it?

Well, the experiment has reached its conclusion! I just bottled the mead and it's freaking amazing. I ended up with 19 bombers (22oz) and 15 bottles (12oz).

The total time spent from yeast pitch to bottling was 107 days.

My thoughts on the process:

• Next time I'll probably only use the belgian strong yeast, skipping the lambic blend. Unless you plan on letting this age for 8-12 months and adding more food for the lacto, pedio, etc then i don't think it really does anything.
• The hops were extremely messy. Next time I'll probably use a hop sack when dry hopping
• I'll probably back sweeten with a little more honey next time. I only ended up at 1.014. I think a few points higher would be a little better.

I have real bottle of dwarf invasion that i plan on doing a side-by-side comparison with soon. I'll post those results when it happens.

Now, for the pics of bottling day: