Could you (would you) brew in this room with an electric setup?

It's so friggin' cold out today (around 3F with wind chill) and it's only November. I'm really questioning if I should put my future 10 gallon electric setup I'm designing in my non-insulated/non-heated garage. I won't enjoy brewing for the 4-5 cold months of the year (0-40F) and the 2-3 summer months won't be fun either as it gets crazy hot (80-100F) in the garage.

Brewing's supposed to be fun right??

So in my basement I have a terracotta lined "cold-room" under my front step:







Why not remove some of the shelves and built a brewing setup in here?

A vent hood would go in a corner and push steam out one of the 4" vents near in the ceiling seen in the second picture.

I'd have to put water/electricity in the cold room but that's not insurmountable. The water main and electrical panel are litterally 2 feet on the other side of the wall.

For electrical I would put a ring of electrical conduit around the ceiling plus a nice 40-50A 240V plug for the brew stand. All done to code, with GFCIs, etc.

I could even hardline the water into the HLT and whatever chiller system I end up with. There's already a drain in the floor (thankfully as that would be have been considerably more difficult).

Also no need to lug carboys or other things up/down stairs through the house to the garage (fermenation and other 'beer work' is done right next to the cold room).

My only concern is the size of the room. It's not huge so there could (would?) most likely be condensation during a 10 gal full wort boil even with the vent hood pulling steam out as fast as possible. The room itself would be ok (it's 100% terracotta lined and the door is solid core meant for external use) but what about the electrical stuff? Would this be like trying to run a toaster in a steam bath/sauna? I'm thinking more of the safety concerns than comfort.

Thoughts guys? What would you do? There's some extra wiring/plumbing costs involved to go here vs the garage but I don't care about that.

Kal

I'd consider outdoor rated receptacles, but no reason why it couldn't work. Get yourself a variable speed fan as you won't need it full tilt all the time.

Jealousy ensues! I'd go for it if I were you for sure. All you're electricals should be covered and moisture proof regardless of indoor vs outdoor. Just install a powerful enough vent system

Why were you even considering the garage???? That will be perfect! I would take all the shelving out for maximized room.

It is friggin cold here eh? I'd check into some hydroponic shops for your vent fans and environmental controls, I’m sure they mastered venting without all the noise and probably water/moisture resistant too.

sigmund said:

I'd consider outdoor rated receptacles, but no reason why it couldn't work.

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Thanks. Yes, I figured I should use nice outdoor type plugs with flip-up covers (Home Depot's got all I need with their grey conduit/boxes). I'd get an electrician to verify and do the final connection to the panel anyway.

Get yourself a variable speed fan as you won't need it full tilt all the time.

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I've got an el-cheapo "regular" white range hood that was in the house when we moved in 8 years ago. It was replaced with something to match our new fridge/stove way back when. It's got 2 or 3 speeds IIRC. No idea what the CFM on it is or if it's enough. If not, maybe I can get something bigger or a bathroom ceiling fan.

IrregularPulse said:

All you're electricals should be covered and moisture proof regardless of indoor vs outdoor.

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Really? I just figured using regular indoor plugs wouldn't be allowed past a certain level of humidity (within reason).

d_m_s_00 said:

It is friggin cold here eh? I'd check into some hydroponic shops for your vent fans and environmental controls, I’m sure they mastered venting without all the noise and probably water/moisture resistant too.

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Good idea. I'll check around.

Kal

Make sure to install GFI protected outlets near it all of course.

What is a cold room and why is it terracotta lined?

I'm going to indoor brewing with my new setup, I'll need a very large ventilation fan but should be nicer than going outside.

If you didn't brew in it, you'd definately better use it to make one awesome beer cellar and fermentation room.

Boerderij Kabouter said:

Why were you even considering the garage???? That will be perfect! I would take all the shelving out for maximized room.

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I'm scratching my head as well somewhat.

Maybe it was the extra work that would be involved, or maybe it's because the room isn't actually empty like in the photos above. Those were taken when we moved in 8 years ago. Now it is full of food, kegs, fermenters, and one entire wall is now a 400 bottle wine rack. I'd keep half of the shelves on one side for wine and would have to add some extra shelves elsewhere for other stuff. I hate work that isn't directly related to the project I'm undertaking.

Kal

McKBrew said:

If you didn't brew in it, you'd definately better use it to make one awesome beer cellar and fermentation room.

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Yup. That's what it is now. I have space heater in there now with a termostat to keep it anywhere between 50-70F in the winter depending on how I set it. I have a WY1056 IPA and a WY2565 Cream Ale fermenting in there now at 64F.

It gets up to 68F in the summer so still not bad for most ales.

Kal

conpewter said:

Make sure to install GFI protected outlets near it all of course.

What is a cold room and why is it terracotta lined?

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Not sure if "cold room" is the right term, but in my case it's a room in the basement (underground) with two vents to the outside. It has a solid core door. When the door's closed it gets extremely cold in there in the winter but usually still above freezing and temp swings are minimized since it's all underground.

No idea why it's terracotta lined: The former house owner did marble/tile work for a living so there a lot of nice touches like this around the house. The ceiling of the room is even done with waves in it to make it look like an old cellar or cave or something (at least that's what they told me).

I'm going to indoor brewing with my new setup, I'll need a very large ventilation fan but should be nicer than going outside.

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Any ideas what sort of CFM is needed for a full wort boil? (10 gals in my case).

Kal

I don't have any calculations on how large a ventiliation fan I'll need. I'm thinking of building something similar to the hoods used in kitchens to suck the air up and out, and have an inlet coming in below my burners (using natural gas)

If I knew any good way to figure it I would... for now I'm probably going to use whatever I can find cheap/free due to budget constraints.

kal said:

Yup. That's what it is now. I have space heater in there now with a termostat to keep it anywhere between 50-70F in the winter depending on how I set it. I have a WY1056 IPA and a WY2565 Cream Ale fermenting in there now at 64F.

It gets up to 68F in the summer so still not bad for most ales.

Kal

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Try a baby "cold" humidifier in the summer. We use one in my son's nursery, and I swear, it's at least 5-10 degrees cooler. It's kind of like a mini swamp cooler, and I haven't noticed any excessive humidity. I plan on buying one next year.

Thanks Steve. Something to keep in mind. I do have a fermentation chiller too that uses ice buckets but it's easier if the cold room's at the right temp. BTW, I'm going to base my brew stand partially on your wood one:



I love the look of it. Great work!

Kal

Thanks! If you plan on going electric, it'll be way easy.

Man. I need to polish my kegs again!

You can also use ground fault breakers in a sub panel, vs. individual GFI outlets, especially if your going with high amperage heating elements (25amp+).

I love the idea of brew room, but why not just use it as fermentation and conditioning room? If you do it as a brewing room, you won't be able to brew in there if you are fermenting or conditioning because of the temperature fluctuation.

DiveBrew said:

You can also use ground fault breakers in a sub panel, vs. individual GFI outlets, especially if your going with high amperage heating elements (25amp+).

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Yup. Was at home depot today looking around and decided that that's what I'll do. My main house panel is litterally 4 feet away from this room so I'm not going to bother with a sub-panel. Just a couple of GFCI breakers for the 40-60A 2-phase line for the heating elements and then one 15A one for the other stuff. Or maybe just everything off the one set of breakers...

(Still in the planning stages - I don't even know how much power I need yet or how exactly it'll all be wired up).

OT: Question for you electric brewers out there -

What size elements should be considering for my HLT and BK for a 10 gal setup? 5-6 KW per kettle enough? Should I go with two 3KW ones or just one? The HLT will be used for HERMS too.

One 5KW element will draw ~20A so I have to go for a 50-60A service if I plan on running both at once, or plan this carefully and only have one element on at once. I should be able to get away with a 30A service then probably... (?)

Kal

kal said:

Thoughts guys? What would you do? There's some extra wiring/plumbing costs involved to go here vs the garage but I don't care about that.

Kal

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All I gotta say is: Take lots of photos of the build out. I'd love to get a crack at building a brew room like that. I hope it turns out well for you!

Lots of photos will definitely be forthcoming. It's been so slow doing all the research to put together the parts it's not even funny.

At least my kettles are in now:



I thought I'd do the stand next but I've decided to build the electric control panel first and order the bulk of the other parts before I build the stand to house them all.

Its still going to be many months I'm sure.

Kal

Those are sweet!

With all that shiny stainless you're gonna have to wear eye protection kust to brew. Let me be the first jealous poster to say that I hate you.:rockin:

kal said:

I'd keep half of the shelves on one side for wine and would have to add some extra shelves elsewhere for other stuff.

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I would not want to store any nice bottles of wine or food in an enclosed room that I was brewing in. Maybe if you get a huge vented hood directly above all 3 of your pots to exhaust all the moisture and try to keep temp swings to a minimum it would work, but I would have a plan B in place. If it gets moist and warm in there while your brewing your likely to ruin some good bottles of wine.

The only concern that I have is the terracotta. It is REALLY porous. Any wort splashing on those walls will be a mold/infection/vermin bonanza.


John

Nwcw2001 said:

The only concern that I have is the terracotta. It is REALLY porous. Any wort splashing on those walls will be a mold/infection/vermin bonanza.


John

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wonder if you could clear coat it with something like hightemp varnish? or the paint on garage floor epoxy you find at home depot

kal said:

Yup. Was at home depot today looking around and decided that that's what I'll do. My main house panel is litterally 4 feet away from this room so I'm not going to bother with a sub-panel. Just a couple of GFCI breakers for the 40-60A 2-phase line for the heating elements and then one 15A one for the other stuff. Or maybe just everything off the one set of breakers...

(Still in the planning stages - I don't even know how much power I need yet or how exactly it'll all be wired up).

OT: Question for you electric brewers out there -

What size elements should be considering for my HLT and BK for a 10 gal setup? 5-6 KW per kettle enough? Should I go with two 3KW ones or just one? The HLT will be used for HERMS too.

One 5KW element will draw ~20A so I have to go for a 50-60A service if I plan on running both at once, or plan this carefully and only have one element on at once. I should be able to get away with a 30A service then probably... (?)

Kal

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I KISS, single infusion, batch sparge.

I have a 5500w in my HLT, I figure about 45min to get up to strike temp. I usually heat up a couple extra gal. in case I need to adjust the mash temp. The HLT is run by a PID controller. As long as I remember to top off the water is ready by sparge time. If you are watching your amps a 4500 would probably do the job. I run a 4500w for my boil kettle. It works well, 50-60% to maintain a nice boil. I brew with my brother, we often will do two beers a brewday & need to run both elements at the same time.

I'm looking at building a RIMS, I just got a third keg for a MT. I intend to run a 4500w 220v element off 110v, it will net 1125w... We'll see how that works.

The room looks like it was meant to be a sauna. No matter what you do, it's always cool to have a room dedicated to liquor in your house. Me, I'd make that the beer conditioning/wine/cigar storage room with cedar shelves; and brew outside on natural gas. Cheaper to brew on NG; easier cleanup, hose down boilovers, smell stays outside, and you can showoff your rig this way.

Good Luck!
-OCD