Think its infected? looks pretty grose

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flash-shabby

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Hi all,

I am a 'newb' still messing around with kits and adding different stuff to secondary to improve my brews.
This is a stout I’ve been racking for 3 weeks now, I tried to infuse it with coffee via 'cold extraction' and added home made vanilla essence in brandy.
I just checked it because I was thinking about bottling as you can see there is a gross layer on top with bubbles in it.

I have been transferring to different bins through the fermentation processes because I ruined one of my first beers when I left it on top of the yeast too long. But I do my best to thoroughly sanitise everything.

Very worried about this infection, is it ruined? Can it be saved? if so how?

Once I have stopped uncontrollably sobbing of course...

20130723_195556.jpg
 
That looks like the ocean floor, infected for sure.
Why transfer at all? Just leave in primary for 3 week.
 
That looks like the ocean floor, infected for sure.
Why transfer at all? Just leave in primary for 3 week.

Or 4 weeks or 5, even 6. I only secondary if I am adding something besides hops to my beer or if I am lagering. Unnecessarily transferring beer only opens you up to a higher chance of infection.

That beer is infected, but I know a lot of guys just rack under it and give it more time in the bottle/keg to mature or clean itself up. You will know if you get infected beer into the bottle anyway, KABOOM! You can always bottle them, put them in Rubbermaid tubs with tops, and hope for the best. If you keg, then you are golden. It isn't going to kill you.
 
That's definitely an infection, I'm just not sure what. It might be a wild yeast pellicle, or it could be pediococcus, or something else entirely.
This may or may not ruin it, though it will very likely produce some flavors you weren't expecting. When it's done fermenting, take a small sample and see how it tastes. If it doesn't taste good, you could try leaving it for a month or two and see what happens. If it is extremely foul, probably just toss it.
 
it has quite the pellicle there, could be brett, but it also could be lots of things, may try saving it for a bit and see what it tastes like


I am a proponent of trying to keep things as simple as possible till you get to know the process and can make it repeatable. so I will second the suggestion to not do a secondary for your next few brews at least.

-chickens
 
That looks like the ocean floor, infected for sure.
Why transfer at all? Just leave in primary for 3 week.

Yeah it looks like there should be the hull of the Titanic somewhere. IMO this could be a good thing. Wont hurt letting it hang out for awhile. It would be a good idea mark any plastics that you used during fermentation/post fermentation as "brett" so you know not to use them with your other beers. This is paranoid but I don't like all my beers sour.

You aren't alone. Check out all the photos on this thread
 
You cold extracted coffee and dumped it in your beer? So no heat involved to sanitize the coffee? I would expect that even though coffee is roasted, it's probably not real sanitary.

How did you ruin your first batch letting it sit on the yeast? How long was it on there? You probably didn't ruin it from being on the yeast cake unless it was on there for months and months and months. I would suggest you set the racking cane down and forget where you put it.
 
Or 4 weeks or 5, even 6. I only secondary if I am adding something besides hops to my beer or if I am lagering. Unnecessarily transferring beer only opens you up to a higher chance of infection.

ohh right i read on a 'brew tips' site somewhere (i cant find it now, countless hours of staring at brewing tips) that after primary (7 to 10 day) you want to get the young beer off of the waste on the bottom asap to avoid autolysis and rack it to improve it. One of my early brews tasted like arse, it was a bit of a cheap kit but was really yeasty and my girlfriend who works in a real ale pub described it as 'off' and unservable. i thought it was standard practice to do this. so i can just leave a beer for ages in primary and it works the same as racking?

I added espresso that i cold extracted from a pack of sealed grounds, vanilla extract in brandy and 125 grams of DME.

So do i will just leave the scuzz on top for a few more weeks and hope for the best a bottle then?

cheers for the fast wisdom guys!
 
You cold extracted coffee and dumped it in your beer? So no heat involved to sanitize the coffee? I would expect that even though coffee is roasted, it's probably not real sanitary.

How did you ruin your first batch letting it sit on the yeast? How long was it on there? You probably didn't ruin it from being on the yeast cake unless it was on there for months and months and months. I would suggest you set the racking cane down and forget where you put it.

yeah i read that hot brewing the coffee gave it a really harsh acrid taste. used boilded filterd water and sanitised the bowl, could think of a way to clean the coffee though except cold extracting it in vodka?

looks like i may have got this whole racking deal a bit wrong!
 
Or 4 weeks or 5, even 6. I only secondary if I am adding something besides hops to my beer or if I am lagering. Unnecessarily transferring beer only opens you up to a higher chance of infection.

ohh right i read on a 'brew tips' site somewhere (i cant find it now, countless hours of staring at brewing tips) that after primary (7 to 10 day) you want to get the young beer off of the waste on the bottom asap to avoid autolysis and rack it to improve it. One of my early brews tasted like arse, it was a bit of a cheap kit but was really yeasty and my girlfriend who works in a real ale pub described it as 'off' and unservable. i thought it was standard practice to do this. so i can just leave a beer for ages in primary and it works the same as racking?

I added espresso that i cold extracted from a pack of sealed grounds, vanilla extract in brandy and 125 grams of DME.

So do i will just leave the scuzz on top for a few more weeks and hope for the best a bottle then?

cheers for the fast wisdom guys!

You added more DME to the secondary? For why?
 
I suggest that you stop trying to improve your beers. You seem to be doing a lot of unnecessary transferring and adding stuff without having an idea of what will happen. Of course if you are willing to make a lot of disasters for the possibility of making something great, go for it. Just try to remember how you did it so you can do it again.

Also you have described a fear of autolysis. That is something that simply does not happen in the homebrewing environment. I have left a couple of beers on the yeast cake for 2 months and they were among my best.

I rarely do a secondary. I leave mine in primary for about 3 weeks on average then I bottle or keg them.
 
tinkering with the brew during fermentation is not advisable, certainly don't move it around from vessel to vessel. next time leave it alone to finish fermenting on the yeast. it my taste like arse but it won't be because of the yeast. an arse off flavor sounds like operator error to me.
 
I suggest that you stop trying to improve your beers. You seem to be doing a lot of unnecessary transferring and adding stuff without having an idea of what will happen. Of course if you are willing to make a lot of disasters for the possibility of making something great, go for it. Just try to remember how you did it so you can do it again.

Also you have described a fear of autolysis. That is something that simply does not happen in the homebrewing environment. I have left a couple of beers on the yeast cake for 2 months and they were among my best.

I rarely do a secondary. I leave mine in primary for about 3 weeks on average then I bottle or keg them.

2nd that

I just drank the first bottle of my Black Oaked IPA. It was absolutely delicious. Oh, and it sat in the primary for 6 months before going into the secondary for dry hopping. So don't worry about autolysis of your yeast. Palmer went back on a few things he said in the 1st edition of "How to Brew", including how long it is OK to leave beer on the yeast cake.

SafAle US-05 yeast sprinkled in the primary by the way.

Happy brewing
 
I just made a coffee stout myself, what i did was to cold extract the coffee and then boil it to make sure nothing got in my beer. Came out bad ass, no off flavors. Only get real bitterness and you hot brew the coffee from the grounds. But looks infected to me. I primarily brew stouts, my advice...dont secondary stouts, leave on for 3 weeks, add the coffee about 3 days before you bottle, other than that leave it alone.
 
When you say you have been "racking for 3 weeks" what does that mean, how many times have you racked it?

And yeah let that stuff rest in primary. I'm one person drinking from 5 kegs at once with a 6th on standby and 6 carboys full of beer. My beers sit in primary for quite a while until I can finish a keg and refill it, and I'm very happy with them. No autolysis or any of that junk.
 
Hey look at that infection :( Leave it and see what happens. Since your a newbie, use this opportunity to see what an infected beer tastes like. Heck, you might like it, might not. Either way, don't throw it out. In fact, after full fermentation, bottle it and let it sit for a year like some sour beers. After all, this is how sour beers are made, right?

The key to being a great home brewer is to learn from your mistakes. I remember making plenty before making great beers. PS. I still make mistakes, but far less than when I was a newbie.

Cheers,
DL
 
Yeah it looks like there should be the hull of the Titanic somewhere. IMO this could be a good thing. Wont hurt letting it hang out for awhile. It would be a good idea mark any plastics that you used during fermentation/post fermentation as "brett" so you know not to use them with your other beers. This is paranoid but I don't like all my beers sour.

You aren't alone. Check out all the photos on this thread

I know there's a lot of talk about infections from using equipment that was purposefully used for sour beers, or were contaminated. I decided to put that theory to the test. I made a sour beer, fermented, cleaned and sterilized my fermenter. There were no re-occurrences of infection. Since then, I have made sour beers many times without problems followed by light Lagers, which would easily show infections. I believe proper cleaning and sterilization will keep you safe.

Mo-Fo
 
I know there's a lot of talk about infections from using equipment that was purposefully used for sour beers, or were contaminated. I decided to put that theory to the test. I made a sour beer, fermented, cleaned and sterilized my fermenter. There were no re-occurrences of infection. Since then, I have made sour beers many times without problems followed by light Lagers, which would easily show infections. I believe proper cleaning and sterilization will keep you safe.

Mo-Fo

Did you use Brett? Since Brettanomyces is a yeast the methods (Acid) used to sanitize are nearly as effective against it. I guess you have had good luck with your methods which is good to hear.
 
I know there's a lot of talk about infections from using equipment that was purposefully used for sour beers, or were contaminated. I decided to put that theory to the test. I made a sour beer, fermented, cleaned and sterilized my fermenter. There were no re-occurrences of infection. Since then, I have made sour beers many times without problems followed by light Lagers, which would easily show infections. I believe proper cleaning and sterilization will keep you safe.

Mo-Fo

it's good to see someone else gather their own empirical data on this issue rather than just go with conventional wisdom which may or not be right.
 
hey, right i have managed to find the site that sent me on my misguided path see what you guys think of it
http://webspace.webring.com/people/ms/sirleslie/HomeBrewingTips/HomeBrewingTips.html

the racking scetion talks about canabilstic yeast eating itself once the sugar is gone and spoiling beer, I also used a brewferm flemish old bruin that had me change container 3 times in the instructions. So thought there was science to the madness.

Im just going to do as guided and leave things for a good long primary in future. Sound like alot less messing about anyway!

cheers guys
 
hey, right i have managed to find the site that sent me on my misguided path see what you guys think of it
http://webspace.webring.com/people/ms/sirleslie/HomeBrewingTips/HomeBrewingTips.html

the racking scetion talks about canabilstic yeast eating itself once the sugar is gone and spoiling beer, I also used a brewferm flemish old bruin that had me change container 3 times in the instructions. So thought there was science to the madness.

Im just going to do as guided and leave things for a good long primary in future. Sound like alot less messing about anyway!

cheers guys

That site had some confusing information. The part where he was disparaging the use of sugar and where he spoke of a "full strength" beer as 5% abv was odd. And I've never heard of adding sugar for secondary fermentation. It seems like it would bring the yeast back to life, rather than giving them more time to settle out.
I'd suggest howtobrew.com as a good go-to brewing reference website.
 
holy ****, man youre first problem is: ive been racking it for 3 weeks-- right there situation critical. when you also said you ruined your first beer by leaving it on the yeast too long, how long was that? a year? you have an infection thats for sure, cant say what it is with out doing lab tests and using a microscope but its infected. brew your beer, put it in the primary let it run a month or so, dont touch it dont open it. make sure your vessel is cleaned and sanitized( those are two different steps). add your coffee cold extraction( are you boiling the water first then allowing it to cool and then adding it to your coffee?) and vanilla extract( youre better off soaking the beans in a spirit) to a clean and sanitized secondary(that should have much less head space than your primary) and rack your beer on top your additions. leave your secondary for anywhere from a week to a month. dont open or bother your secondary. no gravity readings no samples. after a set time bottle. when might you ask? id say let it ride a month so the flavors come through and meld together. you have obvious issues with cleaning and sanitation, the procedure i stated will minimize your exposure to infectious organisms.
 
Like the others have said, you've definitely gotten some mis-information. Going forward, find a simple recipe, and follow it to the letter. And don't use the directions that come with kits. They don't mention anything about checking gravity to see when fermentation is actually complete, and they almost always say to transfer to secondary, which is usually unnecessary. You definitely did not ruin your first batch by leaving it on the yeast too long.

Read How to Brew. That will give you all the information you need to be successful. Once you get the basic processes down, then you can start experimenting. I've been brewing for almost three years now, and I'm only just at the point where I feel comfortable to start experimenting. Case in point: you probably infected this batch by adding cold brewed coffee without any sanitation. Without the experience and knowledge that comes from having successful, repeatable batches under your belt, you wouldn't know that this could even be an issue.

One important part of success is knowing what you don't know.
 
You mentioned "brewferm flemish old bruin". Was this the kit for this beer? If not, did you use the same equipment from that brew. The reason I ask is that a Flemish Oud Bruin is typically a sour beer. Which yeast did you use for this stout, perhaps you used a sour "blend". In that case you experience might actually be normal and expected.

And.... I'll reiterate the others, let it sit and rack from beneath the pellicle. See how it tastes!
 
the racking scetion talks about canabilstic yeast eating itself once the sugar is gone and spoiling beer, I also used a brewferm flemish old bruin that had me change container 3 times in the instructions. So thought there was science to the madness.

There is truth to this. Its called autolysis, but unless you plan to leave your beer on the yeast for several months, you should be fine. If your in primary for a month or less, you should be fine.
 
I don't know who wrote that or when, but at least in the racking section it is old school/misinformed information being given.

I did not read it fully but he mentions secondary as extending fermentation time. That is totally false. Fermentation will not take any longer that the time it takes for the yeast to consume the sugars. Cool temperatures during fermentation will make the yeast work more slowly. It is best to let fermentation finish BEFORE transferring to secondary which is more accurately described as a bright tank. It is only to let the beer clear more.
 
right cheers guys this has all been really really helpfull!
Was basically sprinting with a blindfold on, i now see.
Well at least this inffection has brought light to the many mistakes i was making. Although some what misinformed thanks to that site so i think i was being about 2/3s and idiot.
Thanks for howtobrew.com tip it was exactley what i needed!!! after a day and a half of study i have totally refiend everything i am doing from the ground up.
Ohh what a sparkly future.
I guess ill put those frozen bananas i was gonna puree in vokda and add to my brown ale on the shelf for now.
 
Did you use Brett? Since Brettanomyces is a yeast the methods (Acid) used to sanitize are nearly as effective against it. I guess you have had good luck with your methods which is good to hear.

yes it was, however all the others are yeast too. like so many other people, I didn't want to spend 50 to 60 dollars on brewing a beer and then losing it because of contamination. I've run into multiple situations including a brew shop that said you should never use equipment that was used in sour beers for normal brewing. They always countered with some form of doubt, whether or not it was true that your equipment was forever contaminated. to me this was clearly speculation and every comment made in forums and by all the Brewers has never really been tested.

my theory was that if normal cleaning and sterilization would kill normal yeast, then it should kill Brett and any other form of yeast. I've never heard of super power yeast that could survive acid wash. I think the only problem would be poor cleaning and sterilization by someone that was inexperienced, didn't care, or that had equipment that had been scratched so badly that it was impossible to steralise.
 
dlester said:
yes it was, however all the others are yeast too. like so many other people, I didn't want to spend 50 to 60 dollars on brewing a beer and then losing it because of contamination. I've run into multiple situations including a brew shop that said you should never use equipment that was used in sour beers for normal brewing. They always countered with some form of doubt, whether or not it was true that your equipment was forever contaminated. to me this was clearly speculation and every comment made in forums and by all the Brewers has never really been tested.

my theory was that if normal cleaning and sterilization would kill normal yeast, then it should kill Brett and any other form of yeast. I've never heard of super power yeast that could survive acid wash. I think the only problem would be poor cleaning and sterilization by someone that was inexperienced, didn't care, or that had equipment that had been scratched so badly that it was impossible to steralise.

This is a total guess, but I would bet that it also has something to do with the wide variation of yeast. If you wanted to "infect" my American ale (Wyeast 1056) with some 1272 - or vice versa - I would say I don't care. But adding a little of a sour yeast to my brew, no thanks.

So if my lines or fermenters are contaminated with some surviving "standard" yeast, no biggie and probably no adverse effect. But a little sour yeast could make a sour beer.

Again, I could be talking out if my *** here. :)
 
Hi all,

I am a 'newb' still messing around with kits and adding different stuff to secondary to improve my brews.
This is a stout I’ve been racking for 3 weeks now, I tried to infuse it with coffee via 'cold extraction' and added home made vanilla essence in brandy.
I just checked it because I was thinking about bottling as you can see there is a gross layer on top with bubbles in it.

I have been transferring to different bins through the fermentation processes because I ruined one of my first beers when I left it on top of the yeast too long. But I do my best to thoroughly sanitise everything.

Very worried about this infection, is it ruined? Can it be saved? if so how?

Once I have stopped uncontrollably sobbing of course...

Contamination is the number one issue the Brewers have to deal with. there are several things you need to do in order to brew beer without any form of contamination. It sounds like you know how to sterilize équipement. However, did you sterise the adjuncts you added post fermentation. if you decide to add anything to your beer after boiling the wort and cool down, make sure you heat it up to 165 degrees to kill bacteria.

Another thing you have to keep in consideration is your location of brewing beer. If you are brewing in the backyard or your garage, you are susceptible to wild yeast floating or connected two particles floating in the air that may drop down into your beer. I know I had this problem myself, which I resolved it by moving the wort from the brew kettle straight to the fermenter without being exposed to the elements within my garage. I call it a closed end system. I wrote about this very issue in my blog regarding submitting beers to competitions.
 
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