I am wondering if anyone washes yeast with this method...

I have also come across this famous sticker on yeas washing: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/yeast-washing-illustrated-41768/


There is one thing that puzzles me about this process: what is the point of keeping 4 mason jars in the fridge when you could just open them after a couple of days (once the yeast has formed a nice layer at the bottom) and dump most of the excess water. Swirl with the little bit of water you leave in the jar (just to stir up the yeast at the bottom) and pour the content of the mason jars into one. Less space, 3 empty jars to wash more yeast, and you will need all the slur eventually for a 5-gallon batch (if you dont make a starter).

Any ideas if this would be a good idea to do (or good practice)?

Ideal situation is to have the fewest jars taking up space. One labeled jar with yeast name and fermentation date. Leaves more room for bottles of beer to carbonate.

When I wash yeast I end up with 3 jars. I don't wash all of the time. So if I can get 6 batches from one smack pack I'm ahead of the game in my eyes. The good thing is that I only use 3 strains the majority of the time. So I don't have a giant bank of jars to deal with.

flars said:

Ideal situation is to have the fewest jars taking up space. One labeled jar with yeast name and fermentation date. Leaves more room for bottles of beer to carbonate.

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Yes, that is why I am trying to find a way to reduce the amount of jars in my fridge.

LouBrew13 said:

When I wash yeast I end up with 3 jars. I don't wash all of the time. So if I can get 6 batches from one smack pack I'm ahead of the game in my eyes. The good thing is that I only use 3 strains the majority of the time. So I don't have a giant bank of jars to deal with.

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6 batches from one smack pack? How do you do that?

Elysium said:

6 batches from one smack pack? How do you do that?

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Make a starter and then wash the yeast from it.

I have a dedicated brewing fridge. Problem solved.

Elysium said:

Yes, that is why I am trying to find a way to reduce the amount of jars in my fridge.

6 batches from one smack pack? How do you do that?

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When I wash my yeast I use a larger mason jar to fill 3 smaller jars. When I reuse the yeast in my small jars I'll wash yeast from a lightest batch with the fewest adjuncts(peel, sugar). If I get another 3 from a second generation I would've had 6 total.

flars said:

Ideal situation is to have the fewest jars taking up space. One labeled jar with yeast name and fermentation date. Leaves more room for bottles of beer to carbonate.

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I think you need to keep the yeast in the fridge...and bottles don't carb in the fridge.

Yes, combining jars is a perfectly reasonable thing to do, and if it works w your process go for it. Just make sure you make a starter, I wouldn't recommend pitching washed yeast without one unless it's within a week of harvest. Using all the yeast you recovered may approximate a proper pitch rate, but a good starter guarantees the yeast is healthy and active when you pitch.

As to reasons why you wouldn't, again it depends on your process. First, one less step is one less chance for infection. I would guess the author of the sticky uses each jar to seed separate starters for separate batches of beer, so they're already split and ready to go. Remember, you don't need a whole jar of solid yeast to inoculate a starter. Chris White (white labs and coauthor of Yeast w JZ) recommends aiming for a 10 fold increase when propagating yeast to maximize yeast vitality.

As for my process, I prefer to split off a small jar when making a starter to save for next time. It ferments by itself, so I don't have to wash it or otherwise transfer it. I believe it was Jamil Z who said either in Yeast or in a podcast that the safest place for yeast is under the beer they've just made. This requires no extra work, less opportunity for genetic drift, and no added source of contamination, so it works for me. When I do harvest yeast, it's often to repitch immediately or the next weekend (ie no starter), so in that case I do use a single container.

I buy soda preform bottles (same as white labs) I then wash the yeast down and decant most of the water off and pour with a funnel into the preforms, then i made a shelf in my fridge that has holes in it rough 27 so i can keep plenty of yeast around.

http://www.teachersource.com/product/preforms-and-caps/chemistry
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005CBFATS/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Elysium said:

There is one thing that puzzles me about this process: what is the point of keeping 4 mason jars in the fridge when you could just open them after a couple of days (once the yeast has formed a nice layer at the bottom) and dump most of the excess water. Swirl with the little bit of water you leave in the jar (just to stir up the yeast at the bottom) and pour the content of the mason jars into one. Less space, 3 empty jars to wash more yeast, and you will need all the slur eventually for a 5-gallon batch (if you dont make a starter).

Any ideas if this would be a good idea to do (or good practice)?

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a lot of brewers will only use a washed strain 5 to 7 time before they buy a new pack or vial. Look at it this way. I buy a pack of yeast and use it one time i wash it and get 4 more. each of those yeast have been used once. now i make 4 more batches of beer and wash the last one and get 4 more jars of which have only been used twice. If i keep repeating this process i can make 20 or so batches and still only have used the same strain 5 times. buy combining the jars and using just the one jar you can only use it for 5 to 7 batches. oh and yes i do use that method all the time, its what started me washing yeast in the first place

jmccraney said:

... Just make sure you make a starter, I wouldn't recommend pitching washed yeast without one unless it's within a week of harvest...

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Weeeeellllll, maybe... using the Mr Malty pitch rate calculator, yeast with starter can be replaced with yeast slurry of the appropriate amount. If its an ale you are pitching into, then we want some growth and some lag. If an ale takes off too soon it may be low in esters and less flavorful. If its a lager, then yes ALWAYS make a starter. Starters are always good practice though and good ways to "proof" the yeast. Rock it bruther:rockin:

McCuckerson said:

Starters are always good practice though and good ways to "proof" the yeast. Rock it bruther:rockin:

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Yes, this was more my point. I wasn't suggesting he over pitch, just that it's a good way to ensure yeast health.

I am wondering what the point of washing yeast is in general since Chris White said the risks outweigh the benefits. Just leave a bit of beer at the end after racking and swirl a bunch. You will get a nice thick slurry and then you can pour that into as many jars as you want.

With highly flocculant yeasts such as 002/1968 you should just scoop out what you want. Swirling and letting it settle won't work--you run a risk of getting only the less flocculant yeast. Trust me.

rexbanner said:

I am wondering what the point of washing yeast is in general since Chris White said the risks outweigh the benefits. Just leave a bit of beer at the end after racking and swirl a bunch. You will get a nice thick slurry and then you can pour that into as many jars as you want.

With highly flocculant yeasts such as 002/1968 you should just scoop out what you want. Swirling and letting it settle won't work--you run a risk of getting only the less flocculant yeast. Trust me.

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Thanks for the reply. Let's see if I understand you correctly.....in a jar there can be difference between yeast cells regarding how flocculant they are?

rexbanner said:

I am wondering what the point of washing yeast is in general since Chris White said the risks outweigh the benefits. Just leave a bit of beer at the end after racking and swirl a bunch. You will get a nice thick slurry and then you can pour that into as many jars as you want.

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The point of washing is to separate all the junk and dead yeast from the good yeast.

rexbanner said:

I am wondering what the point of washing yeast is in general since Chris White said the risks outweigh the benefits. Just leave a bit of beer at the end after racking and swirl a bunch. You will get a nice thick slurry and then you can pour that into as many jars as you want.

With highly flocculant yeasts such as 002/1968 you should just scoop out what you want. Swirling and letting it settle won't work--you run a risk of getting only the less flocculant yeast. Trust me.

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Glynn said:

The point of washing is to separate all the junk and dead yeast from the good yeast.

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I think rexbanner is right. Plus, it's a decent amount of work to go through the whole washing routine compared to just saving all the slurry. Washing does a relatively poor job of separating dead yeast from good yeast anyway. Mostly it does a good job of throwing away yeast. As to whether or not it selects for less flocculant cells, I'm not sure, but it makes sense.

These two articles may be of interest (I'm posting them in reverse order):
http://woodlandbrew.blogspot.com/2013/01/yeast-washing-revisited.html
http://woodlandbrew.blogspot.com/2012/12/yeast-washing-exposed.html

The reason you keep them in 3-4 separate jars is because you don't need ALL of that yeast for the next batch.

The yeast washed from 1 batch of beer is enough to do 3-4 more batches of beer. So you wash it out into 3-4 Mason jars, then when you do your next batch, you only need 1 jar. You have 2-3 left in the fridge for other batches.

If you put it all in one jar, yes you'd save space, but that one jar would have WAAAAAY more yeast than you'd need for a single batch of beer (unless, I suppose, you were using the yeast washed from a 5 gallon batch to pitch into a 1 bbl batch).

Elysium said:

Thanks for the reply. Let's see if I understand you correctly.....in a jar there can be difference between yeast cells regarding how flocculant they are?

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Yep, during fermentation the yeast will settle at different rates, certain yeast cells are more flocculant than others. That's why when you are using a conical you dump the first bit, save the middle part, and dump the top part.

If you are using 1968 and try swirling it around you will never really get it to break up, no matter how vigorously you swirl. You will only get the slow flocculating cells and can end up with a beer that takes forever or never fully clears. It has happened to me. It's better to take a spoon and scoop it out.

Glynn said:

The point of washing is to separate all the junk and dead yeast from the good yeast.

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True, but if you filter out the break when adding the wort to primary and reuse your yeast quickly after fermentation has ended, neither of those are issues.

The single most important factor when reusing yeast is the age.

Wouldn't the best way to keep a cell line be, to create a large starter let is settle a bit, decant as much liquid off the top, save some of this for next time in a soda preform and keep the rest to pitch in your wort, if you still need some extra cells, add a little wort back into the starter and stir for a day maybe less. This would keep the yeast as close to what the manufacture intended, little mutation do to PH, temp, or OH. Of course slants would be the best but that includes a lot of extra steps..

I've never washed yeast or racked onto slurry but I would like to try. Any harm in saving the slurry from a 3 gal batch in a sanitized jar or growler for a day or so (in the fridge) then pitching directly into a 5 gal batch of a very similar beer? I'm assuming I can just sanitize the jar, funnel it in and then close it up tight with a lid since it's going directly into the fridge.

Yeast is a Wyeast 1187 Ringwood Ale.

+1 for taking the yeast off the starter. However, there seems to be some confusion here on flocculant yeast. To my knowledge a yeast strain has a certain characteristic of flocculation, meaning that each cell should roughly behave the same way within the strain. Since most of us are only using 1 strain at a time, the debate over losing less flocculant cells when decanting seems to be a moot one.

I would agree that a yeast strain has a certain characteristic, however once you put the yeast in a less then ideal situation, different PH, OH concentration it will stress the yeast and lead to mutations that are selective for the current conditions. This is one reason why i always save my yeast from a starter. The OH potential is minimal, the fact there is no hops helps minimize the ph issue.. this should help minimize the potential for the yeast to mutate do to conditions, thus giving me the closest to what the lab intended for that yeast.

The debate would be that if you are saving yeast from the bottom of your primary the yeast falling out of solution at different times could have different characteristics flocculation one of them, if you dont mix this solution before saving you are going to save certain yeast that have been selected for more flocculation at the bottom layer and less on the top layer. I think this is a very moot point if you save from a starter. If you save from previous beers the yeast would have mutated to strive in the environment it was cultured in (beer 1) and it could change certain aspects of the yeast when used in beer two, esp if beer two has considerable difference then beer one, Again [OH], ph to name a few.

I prefer harvesting (and freezing) some vials of yeast from 2L starters made from a fresh, new yeast purchase. I'll end up with 2-4 extra vials which will be good for 2-4 future starters. But this is primarily because I don't brew more than twice a month.

If I brewed more often, I could certainly see dealing with washing yeast and reusing in short order.

Is 65 too warm for storing yeast?

I rinsed one batch of yeast per the method in the 'Illustrated' thread, so I've got some jars of yeast in my fridge. They are in my fridge in the house, at... 40F? ... whatever the normal temp is for a fridge. I have a fermenting fridge controlled by an STC-1000 too, and I kind of want to put my yeast in it to make room in my household fridge. Will they be ok in there, or better in the colder fridge?

colder is better IMHO

iamperplexed said:

I've never washed yeast or racked onto slurry but I would like to try. Any harm in saving the slurry from a 3 gal batch in a sanitized jar or growler for a day or so (in the fridge) then pitching directly into a 5 gal batch of a very similar beer? I'm assuming I can just sanitize the jar, funnel it in and then close it up tight with a lid since it's going directly into the fridge.

Yeast is a Wyeast 1187 Ringwood Ale.

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You should be fine just don't use all of the slurry in your fementer over pitching can be just as bad as under pitching

iamperplexed said:

I've never washed yeast or racked onto slurry but I would like to try. Any harm in saving the slurry from a 3 gal batch in a sanitized jar or growler for a day or so (in the fridge) then pitching directly into a 5 gal batch of a very similar beer? I'm assuming I can just sanitize the jar, funnel it in and then close it up tight with a lid since it's going directly into the fridge.

Yeast is a Wyeast 1187 Ringwood Ale.

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No harm at all, just pitch the proper amount.

Glynn said:

You should be fine just don't use all of the slurry in your fementer over pitching can be just as bad as under pitching

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Studying the mr malty calculator now. I think I'm getting a handle on an amount. Thanks for the info everyone.

Why wash yeast at all? The stuff you get from the store has "nutrients" in it. Isn't that just wort/beer?

I have been scooping yeast and whatever's left of the beer from the bottom of primary in an iodophor-washed jar and sealing the lid. I put it in the fridge. That's it.

The next time I make a batch, I take some of the newly made wort, chill it in a pint glass in the fridge for a while, shake up the yeast jar, and after a while, I pour that in the pint glass, seal it with some cellophane wrap and rubber bands and it goes to work. Pretty soon, the cellophane is bulging out, a clear sign the yeast is still alive and is going to work on the wort.

I've even seen little bubbles coming out of the liquid. Later, when the kettle of wort is cooled, I put that and the starter in the primary fermenter.

This works fine and all my beers have tasted fine.

What's wrong with this?

I just pour leftover yeast into a sanitized jar, seal it & place in the fridge. Then I usually use within 2 weeks the amount of slurry recommended by Mr. Malty. No wash/rinse, no starter

i very rarely was yeast, just pour the slurry into a jar and put it in the fridge. yesterday i pulled a 2 month old jar, scooped out 1/2 cup of slurry and pitched, it was bubbling this morning.

I'm sure you guys will love this. I didn't boil the water,I just filled my 1 gallon kosher dill jar about 3/4's full of water & added a few ounces of Starsan to it. I let it sit while the yeast/trub jars warmed up. Then washed the trub out. I'm winding up pouring four tostitos jars with about1/4-3/8" of yeast in them into two of the same size jars. I thought to try getting about the same amount of yeast in them as a White Labs vial. So far,no nasties smelled or visible. It def takes a couple hours for about a gallon of yeast/trub/water to settle out.

rexbanner said:

I am wondering what the point of washing yeast is in general since Chris White said the risks outweigh the benefits.

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Not to be too cynical here, but I think Chris White just might have a vested interest in keeping us buying new yeast vials every time we brew. He's a very smart man, and we can learn a lot from him - but I think we need to take this particular statement with a grain of salt.

stratslinger said:

Not to be too cynical here, but I think Chris White just might have a vested interest in keeping us buying new yeast vials every time we brew. He's a very smart man, and we can learn a lot from him - but I think we need to take this particular statement with a grain of salt.

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The way I interpreted his statement is that it was better to just harvest the yeast without washing it than to wash it. It was somewhat ambiguous. Even if he meant, "You should be new yeast every time," I can understand the sentiment. There is increased risk with reusing yeast, and if I was brewing a beer that would have to sit a long time or cost a lot in ingredients, then I might think twice and buy new yeast.

My personal experience with it has shown, as long as you use a starter (and you should probably be using a starter with any liquid yeast vial/smackpack anyway), there's really no difference in performance between the fermentation of washed yeast and "new" yeast. On the contrary, for certain generations of washed yeast, the performance is better.

Though now that I re-read what you just wrote, I see I misunderstood - the waiting a long time wasn't due to an expectation of poorly peforming yeast, but probably something high gravity that you'd expect to bulk age for a while? I suppose that comes down to your risk tolerance. I've brewed maybe 6-10 brews with washed yeast so far and only had one failure - but that came down to an issue that had nothing to do with the yeast, and everything to do with me being a bonehead and milling my grain in the same spot that I later aerated my wort, thus allowing the lacto-laced grain dust to settle into my fermenter. Everything else has been spot on, which you might not quite expect, learning curve and all that...

stratslinger said:

...the waiting a long time wasn't due to an expectation of poorly peforming yeast, but probably something high gravity that you'd expect to bulk age for a while? I suppose that comes down to your risk tolerance. I've brewed maybe 6-10 brews with washed yeast so far and only had one failure - but that came down to an issue that had nothing to do with the yeast, and everything to do with me being a bonehead and milling my grain in the same spot that I later aerated my wort, thus allowing the lacto-laced grain dust to settle into my fermenter. Everything else has been spot on, which you might not quite expect, learning curve and all that...

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That's exactly what I meant -- a high gravity (or perhaps a sour) brew that would need aging. I agree, it really comes down to your risk tolerance. Things can go wrong with fresh yeast, too. I personally think that reusing yeast is a small risk, but I can see where some might still think it's unacceptable for a high-value/investment brew.

unionrdr said:

I'm sure you guys will love this. I didn't boil the water,I just filled my 1 gallon kosher dill jar about 3/4's full of water & added a few ounces of Starsan to it. I let it sit while the yeast/trub jars warmed up. Then washed the trub out. I'm winding up pouring four tostitos jars with about1/4-3/8" of yeast in them into two of the same size jars. I thought to try getting about the same amount of yeast in them as a White Labs vial. So far,no nasties smelled or visible. It def takes a couple hours for about a gallon of yeast/trub/water to settle out.

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Do I understand this right? Just sanitize a jar and dump yeast into it? That's exactly what I did as a homebrewer and pretty much exactly what I do as a pro brewer. Works fine.

rexbanner said:

Do I understand this right? Just sanitize a jar and dump yeast into it? That's exactly what I did as a homebrewer and pretty much exactly what I do as a pro brewer. Works fine.

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Yeah,I always sanitize the jars. But I didn't have a jar big enough to wash in yet,so I sanitized some Tostitos dip jars & poured the yeast/trub slurry in them & put'em in the fridge. Flash forward about 1 month,& I washed a 1 gallon Vlasic kosher dill jar with PBW & rinsed it out. I sanitized it with Starsan,Poured in 1/2 to some 2/3's full of water with 3-5 ounces of Starsan. I let it sit till the yeast/trub jars warmed up. Swirled them well,& poured into the washing jar of water & Starsan. It's a slow process to settle the trub out of the liquid/yeast column. Re-washed & sanitised the storage jars & poured the yeast/liquid into them sealed up & in the fridge. All's well so far.
I have 2 batches of WL029 yeast/trub mix in the fridge that need washing yet. Just as an experiment,I'll use boiled & cooled water with that one. All other proceedures will be the same. Then we'll know what works/doesn't work.

Generally I agree with the questioner who asks if the 4 jar procedure cannot be simplified.
Yes it can, & several replies indicate we have some flexibility here.
A few points I think are worth noting:'
1) If you wash you can use tapwater carbon filtered at 0.5 microns, 1.0 microns max.
2) You can omit washing if you wish, & that allows storing under a mixture of beer & traub which works for me although I generally do not hold beyond 3 months.
3) I refrigerate at about 4 Deg C.
4) I often do not use a starter & so far no noticeable difference. This may however relate to time of storage, a starter is "safer" on older samples.
5) For the less fastidious brewer who maybe uses 1.7Kg "brewkits" (I do), yeast is low cost because you get it for no extra cost & it is produced to reliably do the job (and they do almost 100% of the time). So if storing special yeast becomes a logistic or space problem, forget it. For me in Australia controlling (with limited success) my brewing temp is more important!