DIY Steam Mash System by Yuri

After bugging brewman !, kladue, and Jer in their respective threads, I figured I'd just fire up my own thread.

I just plugged this bad boy in for the first time:



Everything seals, the pressure relief valve works, and the system will hold over 60 psi (4 times the pressure relief setting). No blown breakers, and it seems to be heating up just fine.

I'm going back outside to make sure I don't blow up the neighborhood...

I'll post more about the system when I don't have a steamy time bomb cooking.

Looks great as usual.
Do you by chance design and build rockets for a living?

Yuri great stuff... Your other thread stated the general parts, but not specific model numbers and locations where one could pick those up. Could you share with us?

Thanks

How many watts is the heating element?

Looks like something homeland security would want to take a peek at - lol

rdwj said:

Looks like something homeland security would want to take a peek at - lol

Click to expand...

You kidding? He probably already works at Los Alamos

Yuri, that is so freaking awesome... :rockin:

Now I have to research. Thanks a LOT pal.

Ize

After an hour and a half, it was finally up to temperature. I let it build just over 10 psi, then vented a little. I was surprised at the amount of steam generated. After playing a bit with the valve (it was just too fun!), I opened the valve and let the pressure drop to 9 psi - that took a little over a minute. It recovered back to 10 psi in just a few minutes. I decided to turn the heat off and see how long it would take to vent all of the steam. It took over 10 minutes!!!



Before I post any more about this project:

WORKING WITH STEAM IS EXTREMELY DANGEROUS!
Unless you are completely confident in your understanding of how this system works and your ability to fabricate, weld, and test it, DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS!!!

Ok, now for the particulars:

The boiler is a single handle corny keg I got at www.homebrewing.org. I removed both fittings, welded the "IN" side shut, and welded a stainless 1/2" female coupling to the "OUT" side (it didn't matter which side).

I removed the relief valve from the keg lid and welded a patch in place of its fitting. I drilled a 1-1/4" hole in the lid (hole saw) and tack welded a 1-1/4" panel nut (from a local electrical supplier) to the bottom side of that hole to accomodate the heating element. If you look closely, you can see where I modified the lid latch with a piece of the dip tube from the keg. I needed a wider latch handle that would fit around the heating element.

The heating element was an eBay find. It's a 240V 6000W element, which gives me 1500W at 120V with a 12.5A current draw. I replaced the foam o-ring on it with a nitrile o-ring that seals better.

For the plumbing:
1/2" stainless ball valve - www.austinhomebrew.com
Pressure gauge - local Sears department store
1/4" copper fittings/adapters - local Lowes plumbing department
Brass adapters/tees/quick disconnect - Lowes also
Solenoid valve and pressure sensor - eBay
Stainless coupler and 15 psi relief valve - www.mcmaster.com

The plumbing functionality is detailed better in this post.

The idea for the whole project was stolen almost entirely from this thread. Brewman did the legwork and math. He has a system like it - here are his pictures.

I plan on controlling this system digitally. Here is the thread about that.

Still to be done:
3/8" copper tubing to a manifold in my cooler mash tun (insulated with foam pipe insulation)
Finalize digital control software

Also, I don't plan on using it exactly the way I did tonight. I just wanted to see how long it would take to heat cold water to ~240 degrees F. I plan on boiling 4 gallons of water over my big natural gas burner, adding that to the boiler, then heating it the rest of the way electrically. That should take less than half the time.

I plan on using this system to step mash 15 gallon batches. If you're looking for something a little smaller and/or easier and/or potentially safer, try this link.

Dang, Man, You are a rocket scientist. You must have worked at Redstone Arsenal.

You need to change your handle to Dr. Yuri.

Looks good so far but you might want to consider a way to monitor water level in the keg so the water level does not drop below the top of the element during operation. Do you have any plans for a way to refill the keg while making steam?.

You shouldn't have to refill anything. Fill it 3/4 full and you are fine to make hours of steam provided liquid water doesn't get forced out with the steam.

Nice work, Yuri.

I was thinking the other night that if we can't get enough steam for big batches (>10 gallons) from a Corny keg that Sanke kegs are rated for 125 PSI too... Thats starting to get pretty extreme though. One would probably need a boiler inspection for that.

One could also use a hot water heater and modify the thermostat to go to 250F. It might rust though.

All sorts of ways to have fun !

Latest pictures:





I've got 12 gallons of water heating to dough-in temps right now. The boiler is almost up to temperature. I'm about to test it for the first time with water...more to come!

Man, Yuri's Gonkulator. Kinda reminds me of a time machine.

Go Yuri Go!

Is that a false bottom I see in that vessel ? ' fess up ! Details, man, details !

Wow, looks really... simple.

Alright, here are some more "details" (probably more than you wanted):

My mash tun is a 15 gallon Igloo Ice Cube with a perforated stainless false bottom. The false bottom is just above the bulkhead fitting for the outlet valve. The other bulkhead fitting that you can see in the picture is for a Brewmometer (that gets clogged with grain and becomes inaccurate as soon as that happens...don't bother with one). The steam manifold is made of 3/8" copper tubing with a 1/16" hole every inch. It rests on top of the false bottom.

I did a few trials today just heating water. This boiler is AWESOME! For 5 gallon batches, 110VAC would probably work just fine. I heated about 12 gallons of water during my testing, and it was slow going with 110VAC. Here are the first results:


I came back with a heavy duty extension cord (yes, I did the math for current, circuit length, and wire diameter), wired the system for 220VAC, and proceeded to do another trial. The results were VERY good!


16 minutes from protein rest temp to mash out temp! SWEET! This is going to work REALLY well. It was amazing to watch. The manifold and valving made all kinds of noise, but there were few to no bubbles breaking the surface since all of the steam was condensing immediatey upon contact with the water in the mash tun (and giving up all of its heat energy). From time to time the system would actually rock the table a bit. I didn't measure the water level before and after, but it didn't appear to rise appreciably (maybe 1/2").

I can't wait to brew with this thing!

If you think it worked well with water, it works twice as well with mash. The steam bubbles break up and the heat transfers better. You can open the valve further and increase the steam flow.

It looks like the lowest your steam pressure got was 8 PSI. There is a ton of BTUs still sitting in the keg at that pressure. Ideally you'd have it blown down to 0 PSI at the end of your heating.

Now how about some pictures and an explanation of that false bottom ! I'm about to buy the same cooler...

The false bottom is really simple. I made it out of a piece of perforated stainless from www.onlinemetals.com. It's held off the bottom by 4 #10 stainless machine screws.

How did you get it formed so nicely, like right into the corners ?

Are the edges rolled over, or is it "just" cut to fit as a flat piece ? What hole size did you use ?

And what do you mean its held off the bottom ? Are the bolts just spacers, like table legs ?

(What efficiency does that system give and how small of a grain bill can you mash and not get channelling ?)

Sorry for asking 100 questions...

I just cut it very carefully to fit with tin snips and a stationary belt sander. The edges are filed smooth, not rolled. The sides of the cooler taper, so it was a bit of a PITA. The material is 0.03" thick T-304 perforated sheet (0.09375" holes - 0.15625" stagger).

The bolts are exactly like table legs (if you look closely, you can see them in my pictures).

I'm at 70% efficiency right now, but I'm expecting 80% with some refinements (better heat control and slower, more even fly sparging).

I haven't mashed a grain bill less than 30 lbs, so I don't know how small I can go. Maybe half that?

I've not tried it yet but how fast would a Rims system work? I guess it would be rims, I was planning to use a spare IC in 180* water.

Yuri_Rage said:

Alright, here are some more "details" (probably more than you wanted):

My mash tun is a 15 gallon Igloo Ice Cube with a perforated stainless false bottom. The false bottom is just above the bulkhead fitting for the outlet valve. The other bulkhead fitting that you can see in the picture is for a Brewmometer (that gets clogged with grain and becomes inaccurate as soon as that happens...don't bother with one). The steam manifold is made of 3/8" copper tubing with a 1/16" hole every inch. It rests on top of the false bottom.

I did a few trials today just heating water. This boiler is AWESOME! For 5 gallon batches, 110VAC would probably work just fine. I heated about 12 gallons of water during my testing, and it was slow going with 110VAC. Here are the first results:

(min:sec on my stopwatch)

00:00 - 124° F - steam turned on (10 psi)
01:24 - 126° F
02:09 - 127° F - steam turned off to recover back to 10 psi
06:40 - steam turned on (12 psi)
07:40 - 131° F - steam turned off
15:27 - steam turned on (14 psi)
16:59 - 135° F
17:00 - I abandoned 110VAC and went to the hardware store​

I came back with a heavy duty extension cord (yes, I did the math for current, circuit length, and wire diameter), wired the system for 220VAC, and proceeded to do another trial. The results were VERY good!

00:00 - 120° F - steam turned on (12 psi)
02:35 - 130° F
04:50 - 140° F
05:50 - steam turned off (down to 8 psi)
06:50 - steam turned on (12 psi)
08:35 - 150° F - began modulating steam valve to maintain 8-10 psi rather than turning it completely off
11:56 - 160° F
16:00 - 170° F
17:20 - heating element turned off
18:20 - 176° F - steam turned off (pressure down to 2 psi)​

16 minutes from protein rest temp to mash out temp! SWEET! This is going to work REALLY well. It was amazing to watch. The manifold and valving made all kinds of noise, but there were few to no bubbles breaking the surface since all of the steam was condensing immediatey upon contact with the water in the mash tun (and giving up all of its heat energy). From time to time the system would actually rock the table a bit. I didn't measure the water level before and after, but it didn't appear to rise appreciably (maybe 1/2").

I can't wait to brew with this thing!

Click to expand...

Great job Yuri, here is a suggestion for the steam injection manifold that may help tame the popping and snapping racket coming from the piping. If you could turn the manifold piping so the outlet holes are on the bottom it will allow the condensed steam to drain out and should reduce the snapping and popping. Also more and smaller holes will help reduce the rumble of the steam entering the water as the steam bubbles will be smaller and their collapsing would be a lot quiter. Would still recomend that you include a sight gauge for monitoring water level as an element failure would not be much fun if you are operating at rated wattage. If you want some 1/2" teflon tube and a couple 1/2" swagelok 90 degree fittings for a sight gauge let me know and i will donate them to your project, and will throw in a couple efector capacitive proximity switches to play with.

Todd said:

I've not tried it yet but how fast would a Rims system work? I guess it would be rims, I was planning to use a spare IC in 180* water.

Click to expand...

What you describe is a HERMS, and it's pretty slow unless you can make your heat exchanger very efficient. Also, with a HERMS or RIMS, you typically recirculate the heated wort to the top of the mash, where the temperature remains hottest anyway. You have to stir often to get it to work well (not that I plan on skipping the stirring with steam...it's still necessary). My HERMS took about 15-20 minutes to heat the mash 10 degrees using 180 degree water with the heat exchanger. That's why I'm so excited about steam...

kladue said:

Great job Yuri, here is a suggestion for the steam injection manifold that may help tame the popping and snapping racket coming from the piping. If you could turn the manifold piping so the outlet holes are on the bottom it will allow the condensed steam to drain out and should reduce the snapping and popping. Also more and smaller holes will help reduce the rumble of the steam entering the water as the steam bubbles will be smaller and their collapsing would be a lot quiter. Would still recomend that you include a sight gauge for monitoring water level as an element failure would not be much fun if you are operating at rated wattage. If you want some 1/2" teflon tube and a couple 1/2" swagelok 90 degree fittings for a sight gauge let me know and i will donate them to your project, and will throw in a couple efector capacitive proximity switches to play with.

Click to expand...

Thanks! And thanks for all your help! I may have to try turning the manifold over (and perhaps using a few more holes). I also agree that a sight glass would add some peace of mind. I'll PM you about the hardware.

Digging up an old post... couple of questions. Have you ever figured out how long the 3~4 gallons of water lasts? Ever tried boiling with it? I am looking into a steam kettle similar to BrewPastors. I would also like to get rid of using propane and switch to all electric. So it seems all I would need is a boiler...

Any thoughts?

4 gallons seems to last forever when mashing. I'm not sure that you could actually accomplish a boil with that amount, but it's worth a try. I'd test it out, but I don't have an extra 220 outlet in the new house (putting one in soon!).

I'm thinking about changing the system up a bit and using an upright 1/2 bbl keg instead of the corny on its side. I'm SURE you could run a boil with a system like that!

Thanks for the reply - I was thinking the same thing about a 1/2 bbl keg. This is on the back burner... have to get all my other projects wrapped up first - but the more I think about it, the more I'd like to make this happen.

You could work out the water requirements by calculating the BTU's needed and dividing by 970 to get the pounds of water needed to generate the steam used in heating.

Thanks for the reply kladue - I am sure I'll be hitting you guys up with a few questions in the coming weeks...

So, exactly how big of bomb would a pressurized sanke keg full of super-heated water really be? heh

Some rough math says it will take about 4 gallons of water in the boiler to raise 20 gallons of water in the kettle from a cool 50°F to boiling. I'd have to do some more re-reading to figure how many BTUs are required to sustain the boil.

I will begin researching as well but I have to get my current projects wrapped up. I swear I have OCD... once I get an idea in my head, I just won't stop until its done. I honestly just told my wife that after I finished the redesign of my rig, I would stop for awhile. I guess if I just sort of blend it all into a single project, I'm not technically lying... heh

Considering the wort will be probably be 150+ degrees when entering the boil kette, it should take much less than the 4 gallons to reach boil...

Since we're talking about using steam as the heating mechanism for the entire system, the same math applies if you heat the water from 50° to 150°, wait for the mash to complete, then go from 150° to boiling.

Well consider this, water expands about 1400 times when flashed into steam, then the steam gives up 970 BTU's / Lb when it condenses on you. Having been on the recieving end of steam burns it is not much fun and takes quite a while to recover from. If one would use equipment built for steam generation with appropriate safety devices, it is as safe as any other method of heating used. My approach to steam generation was to build a flash boiler out of 1/4" tubing that holds about 6 Oz of water and uses burner firing rate to change steam output, here are a couple pictures (Old Boiler)Picasa Web Albums - Kevin - Boiler (New Boiler)http://picasaweb.google.com/kevin.ladue/NewBoilerAndMixer#

Oh, well then, of course thats the case! heh

how the hell did you wrap that tubing so perfectly?!? that is freaking nuts and looks like a great idea. Could that same idea be used with electricity? Say, submerge the tubing in hot oil at around 300 degrees?

The tubing was wound around 2" water pipe then spread 1" apart, then the 4 coils were meshed to fit inside a 6" diameter piece of SS duct. The other function is to heat water for strike and sparge operations, hold water flow constant and turn fire up/down to hit temperatures. Nice feature is with the small internal water volume startup to target temp is about 60 - 90 seconds. Both boilers have been fired to orange hot tubing then hit with full water flow to worst case test for failure, made a large shot of steam but no other changes other than blueing of tubing.

This really settles it - I'm dropping everything and going to welding school... I *need* to be able to fabricate and weld metal like you two.

Couple if questions - how do you toggle the steam on and off with that thing? So I'm guessing the hot oil idea doesn't have much merit?

The way the system is set up water is pumped in to the boiler, burner fired and gas flow controlled to maintain temperature. Water flow is set to .5 GPM and gas flow is controlled to hit 165 for dough in, during steam production the water flow is reduced to ~3 GPH and gas flow controlled to maintain mixer outlet temperature (steam is superheated at start of step cycle to over 275 deg F), and then flow is set to 12 GPH for sparge to match wort transfer to boil kettle. All water and steam flows from boiler through mixer into the sparge ring in mash tun so no connections have to be changed, just start/ stop water flow and burner for steps, the mash tun circulation pump runs from dough in to when mash tun is emptied. With no valve on outlet there is no pressure buildup to worry about in boiler as burner firing rate controls temperature. You can see the flow meters and temperatures on panel during a typical step from protien rest to conversion, wort is flowing at 50 GPH and mixer entering temp is 121 Deg and exiting temp is 156 deg http://picasaweb.google.com/kevin.ladue/OldBrewingSystem#5035126466830705138

kladue, what are you using to set and/or measure flow rates? The only hardware I could find for that sort of thing was EXPENSIVE!

Here is a photo of his old control panel... you can see the two flow meters. He talked about it some in another thread...