Graff (Malty, slightly hopped cider)

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msheridan69 said:
It's drinkable now compared to some of the cider I've brewed LOL

To be honest though, I'll give it the prescribed 2-3 weeks in the bottle to carbonate. I'm bottle conditioning not kegging. I'm hoping the finings leave some yeast behind too or I might end up with Graff Scrumpy LOL The instructions on the finings said add to fermenter and 'bottle' after 48 hours so I presume there will still be enough yeast in the wort to cab after 3 weeks.

I used shop bought 'Just Juice Apple & Pear' (check out my Youtube vids for ingredients I used - link in my signature) and the temps in my garage went between 18 and 30 , but mostly around mid 20s.
The reason I ask about juice is I got a skunky taste before when using organic juice and I also got an off sour taste when fermenting at high temps >28 for over a week. Light exposure could also be an attribute to creating the diecetal alcohol (sour).
Click to expand...

I know from experience with Apfelwein that the store bought juice can be sour until it ages a while, but I think the DME and PM will take care of that. I don't think I'm going to use finings b/c nottingham ferments out fairly quickly in my experience, but I do think I'm going to lager condition it for a week or so in the keg b4 I tap it. Oh yeah, I think I'm going to ferment it around 62* F to keep away the weird flavors.


Also, from my experience with finings you shouldn't have a problem carbing the bottles, but it may take a little bit longer.
 
My Graff was created with Targets brand apple juice. The juice is actually very agreeable, and I'm actually buying it now as my normal drinking apple juice.

Graff was fermented in a fridge running at 65 degrees the entire 2 weeks in the fermenter. Sat in the keg for 2 weeks.

I will say, while I wasn't that much of a fan of it, everyone at the halloween party loved it. Needless to say, we had alot of people who drank waaaay too much. There's probably only a handful of pints left in the keg. LOL

In about 5 hrs time. So...yeah, it was a hit.
 
quixand said:
My Graff was created with Targets brand apple juice. The juice is actually very agreeable, and I'm actually buying it now as my normal drinking apple juice.

Graff was fermented in a fridge running at 65 degrees the entire 2 weeks in the fermenter. Sat in the keg for 2 weeks.

I will say, while I wasn't that much of a fan of it, everyone at the halloween party loved it. Needless to say, we had alot of people who drank waaaay too much. There's probably only a handful of pints left in the keg. LOL

In about 5 hrs time. So...yeah, it was a hit.
Click to expand...

I'm making it Wednesday to be ready on thanksgiving. You think that will work? I plan on fermenting for two weeks in the 60's F and then kegging/carbing in the fridge for a week.
 
HalfPint said:
I'm making it Wednesday to be ready on thanksgiving. You think that will work? I plan on fermenting for two weeks in the 60's F and then kegging/carbing in the fridge for a week.
Click to expand...

It really depends. I personally didn't think it was ready. Still tasted green to me.

Everyone else loved it. /shrug

Your time frame is shorter than mine, but in the realm of BrandonO's suggestions.
 
quixand said:
It really depends. I personally didn't think it was ready. Still tasted green to me.

Everyone else loved it. /shrug

Your time frame is shorter than mine, but in the realm of BrandonO's suggestions.
Click to expand...

Yeah. See, I completely understand what you mean about it tasting ok to all of the "non" brewers, but to someone who knows about the process, it tastes green.

Also, things always taste better when other people make it.
 
Well I just tapped my first keg of Graff, it is dam tasty!

I did the AG brew in a bag method and used 1 lb of Crystal 60L, instead of just 0.75 oz of it.

Since it was such a small amount of hops I used a stainless steel tea-ball for the hops in the boil.

Using the brew in a bag was just the ticket since I was only using 4 lbs of grain. I did sparge with about one quart of water at 170, just to get all the sugar I could off the grain.

Cheers :mug:
 
I've got my keg carbonated and pulled the first pint last night. Its a lot more drinkable than Apfelwein, but I can tell it needs some time to age a bit. Its a little tart, but not bad. It is VERY drinkable this young. I'd like to give it a few weeks of cold storage, but I highly doubt it will last that long. This is the only thing between me and a smoked porter.

I guess I need to get another batch of this going. Its definitely a easy fast way to fill the pipeline
 
Ok I screwed up, I ordered the grains for this along with 6 other brews and some how messed it up. I have a bag that contains 1lb of torrified wheat (not one oz) and 8oz of 120L that is milled together. So now what? I have a digital scale I was thinking about weighing out 3/4 of pound of this mix and going with it. Any thoughts?
 
artbrewer said:
Anyone have a really good AG version of this Brew?
Click to expand...
There is a AG version around page 8 of this thread, but here is my modified version.

AG Graff

Nottingham or Safale-05 Dry yeast
3 lbs of 2-Row malt
1 lb of Crystal 60L
1 oz of Flaked wheat
4 Gallons of apple juice.
1 gallon of water
0.5 oz of your favorite hops ( right around 6% AA)
WARNING! IF YOU ARE GOING TO CHANGE THE AMOUNT OF HOPS USED, MAKE IT LESS NOT MORE, it's really just too bitter with any more.

Directions for brewing
Mashed in with 2 gallons of water at 170*f which came down to 160 for an hour. Use brew in a bag technique and for this kind of brew.
Boiled down to a gallon in another hour.
Add hops when boiling starts
Sparge with 1 quart of 170 degree water


Cool down the wort (if you choose not to cool the wort and just let the AJ do the cooling then your cider won't be as clear). I don't care about clarity so I just let the AJ do the cooling, but if you stick your pot in the freezer and let this get down to 70 degrees or so your cider will clear fairly easy. Pour the wort and apple juice into your carboy and pitch yeast.

Ferment 2 weeks at 64-68 degrees then keg or bottle.
 
skybrew said:
There is a AG version around page 8 of this thread, but here is my modified version.

AG Graff

Nottingham or Safale-05 Dry yeast
3 lbs of 2-Row malt
1 lb of Crystal 60L
1 oz of Flaked wheat
4 Gallons of apple juice.
1 gallon of water
0.5 oz of your favorite hops ( right around 6% AA)
WARNING! IF YOU ARE GOING TO CHANGE THE AMOUNT OF HOPS USED, MAKE IT LESS NOT MORE, it's really just too bitter with any more.

Directions for brewing
Mashed in with 2 gallons of water at 170*f which came down to 160 for an hour. Use brew in a bag technique and for this kind of brew.
Boiled down to a gallon in another hour.
Add hops when boiling starts
Sparge with 1 quart of 170 degree water


Cool down the wort (if you choose not to cool the wort and just let the AJ do the cooling then your cider won't be as clear). I don't care about clarity so I just let the AJ do the cooling, but if you stick your pot in the freezer and let this get down to 70 degrees or so your cider will clear fairly easy. Pour the wort and apple juice into your carboy and pitch yeast.

Ferment 2 weeks at 64-68 degrees then keg or bottle.
Click to expand...

so this doesnt need to be a full boil like all other ag recipes? i could so do this right now cause im tired of paying 13 dollars for extract. i have all of this stuff on hand right now since i just started doing partial mashes:rockin:
 
This Cider tastes like.... Cider!!

I am not going to lie I thought Brandon O was being slightly big headed suggesting this recipe when ever anyone had a problem with there cider. But now I take that back! This recipe is amazing.

I used apples from my garden, a home made press and lets say my first attempt at cider... Was rank... AJ tasted exactly the same, slightly too tart and this recipe sorted it out.

I was away so it did have a lot of time to mature. Had 4 weeks primary, 2 weeks secondary and 4 weeks in a keg. It is ever so slightly cloudy and has a ever so slight yeasty taste. I have posted a new topic on how to solve that for next time though.

Thanks Brandon
 
Just put my first 5 gallons of Graff in the carboy... already smells GREAT. :) I think mine will end up a bit sweet as I just went ahead and threw all 3 lbs of DME I had laying around in it (2lb LDME, 1lb Amber DME). What's a little extra OG among friends, eh? :) Only other thing I changed was I swapped a gallon of AJ for a gallon of Cranberry/Raspberry juice... hoping the extra tartness would balance the extra sweetness from the 3lb DME.

Oh well, it will be nice and stiff with an OG of 1.080, so I guess one way or the other, it will be a great winter brew! :)
 
bfbf said:
It is ever so slightly cloudy and has a ever so slight yeasty taste. I have posted a new topic on how to solve that for next time though.

Thanks Brandon
Click to expand...


My batch was a funky orange colour after 2 weeks in primary - I added beer finings and gave it 72 hours then bottled. What's in the bottle is still a bit cloudy but I'm hoping that'll settle out.

BTW, it tastes really good already - looking forward to my first taste of it conditioed in a couple of weeks.
 
Just brewed this up today. recipe as follows:
1.5 # pale malt-Muntons
1.5 # Munich Malt
.5 # crystal 87L
.25 #carapils malt
.5 celeia hops 2.8% AA
nottingham ale yeast

mashed in with 2 gallons of 170 degree water
mashed for 60 min.
sparged with .5 gallons of 180 degree water.

boiled for 1 hour with .5 oz of Celeia hops

added 4.75 gals of apple juice
chilled to 75 degrees
O.G. 1.052
pitched notty


tasted hydro sample....quite sweet and very dark color,
is this normal for this wort?
 
I've got a question for you guys. I have a porter in the primary that I plan on racking over in a couple of days (when I brew this.) The porter is on a cake of nottingham and I'm thinking about just racking on top of that. What do you guys think?

Do you think the porter will give some weird flavors?
 
MrInternet said:
Just put my first 5 gallons of Graff in the carboy... already smells GREAT. :) I think mine will end up a bit sweet as I just went ahead and threw all 3 lbs of DME I had laying around in it (2lb LDME, 1lb Amber DME). What's a little extra OG among friends, eh? :) Only other thing I changed was I swapped a gallon of AJ for a gallon of Cranberry/Raspberry juice... hoping the extra tartness would balance the extra sweetness from the 3lb DME.

Oh well, it will be nice and stiff with an OG of 1.080, so I guess one way or the other, it will be a great winter brew! :)
Click to expand...

Nice 4" krausen and burping away happily... loving Safale-05!
 
Brandon,

Any advice regarding using apple cider vs. apple juice? A local orchard that does IPM instead of chem pesticides is currently selling unfiltered, unpasteurized cider, and I'd much rather use that!
 
michaelbelt said:
Brandon,

Any advice regarding using apple cider vs. apple juice? A local orchard that does IPM instead of chem pesticides is currently selling unfiltered, unpasteurized cider, and I'd much rather use that!
Click to expand...

I used fresh pressed juice, no preservatives and unpasteurized. Most of the orchards around where I live have a homebrewer's discount. I used half a tablet of campden per gallon of juice, so 2 tablets total, to kill off the wild yeast and bacteria. A lot of people are using fresh pressed juice in their graff. My batch gave off lots of sulphur (rhino farts) and I'm still waiting for the sulphur taste to totally dissipate. I wonder if the processed store juice wouldn't make such a stink.
 
I've got this on the boil right now! House smells awesome. I haven't done a PM in a long time.
 
I called my LHBS to see if they have torrified wheat, and they don't, but do carry flaked wheat.

The Wiki tells me it also increases body and head retention, and is sometimes used in place of torrified wheat.

Would this be a 1:1 substitution?

The wiki also says that torrified wheat is made from barley?
 
titobandito said:
I used fresh pressed juice, no preservatives and unpasteurized. Most of the orchards around where I live have a homebrewer's discount. I used half a tablet of campden per gallon of juice, so 2 tablets total, to kill off the wild yeast and bacteria. A lot of people are using fresh pressed juice in their graff. My batch gave off lots of sulphur (rhino farts) and I'm still waiting for the sulphur taste to totally dissipate. I wonder if the processed store juice wouldn't make such a stink.
Click to expand...

I used Simply Apple juice and it smelled like apples when it fermented...no rhino farts.

Eric
 
Guinness said:
I called my LHBS to see if they have torrified wheat, and they don't, but do carry flaked wheat.

The Wiki tells me it also increases body and head retention, and is sometimes used in place of torrified wheat.

Would this be a 1:1 substitution?

The wiki also says that torrified wheat is made from barley?
Click to expand...

I know that cara-pils also helps head retention, but im not sure what the ratio would be.
 
I have a quick question about fermentation. I followed the recipe exactly and had no troubles with the brewing process. I skipped hydrating my yeast and just pitched the bag of safale-05 when temps were 68 F.
I have 5 gallons total in a 6 1/2 gallon carboy.

Fermentation wasn't obvious for almost a week. It started bubbling out the air lock once ever 15 to 20 seconds or so and continues to do so 3 weeks later. I forgot to take my original gravity readings but after two weeks it was down to 1.05. After 3 it is down to 1.04. I'm being patient and not touching it anymore until I see fermentation slow more but has anyone else experience this? I never saw krausen form but I've read that may happen and not to question it.

It tasted great when I tested a week ago. I can't wait to bottle this one.

Thanks!
 
Merlyn77 said:
I have a quick question about fermentation. I followed the recipe exactly and had no troubles with the brewing process. I skipped hydrating my yeast and just pitched the bag of safale-05 when temps were 68 F.
I have 5 gallons total in a 6 1/2 gallon carboy.

Fermentation wasn't obvious for almost a week. It started bubbling out the air lock once ever 15 to 20 seconds or so and continues to do so 3 weeks later. I forgot to take my original gravity readings but after two weeks it was down to 1.05. After 3 it is down to 1.04. I'm being patient and not touching it anymore until I see fermentation slow more but has anyone else experience this? I never saw krausen form but I've read that may happen and not to question it.

It tasted great when I tested a week ago. I can't wait to bottle this one.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Hmm, I brewed this puppy last night with a rehydrated pack of Nottingham. I pitched the yeast when the brew and yeast temps were at about 79* F. It's bubbling away this morning with about a 2.5" krausen. The only thing I did different was add an extra half gallon of Cider b/c I want to make sure I get 5 gallons into the keg.
 
Brewed this one for the second time 2 weeks ago. Last time I used 4 gallons of warm Mott's from Costco. Started barely cloudy, used Notty - ended clear as a bell, though quite tart.

This time, I used fresh pressed, chilled, non-pasteurized, juice from a local cidermill. Pitched Notty - no activity for ~36 hours, pitched a packet of S-05 - started running well. Has slowed significantly, but here's the thing:

The Graff looks extremely cloudy - and I mean extremely - looks like ice cream mixed with water. Should I expect this to clear? Do you think I might have added the wort to the too-cold cider, causing excess cloudiness (the wort was ~75F, but the cider hadn't warmed up probably to even 50F)?

Right now, I'm relaxing, not worrying (too much), and having a homebrew. Just canvassing experiences.

TIA

Dave
 
The fresh pressed stuff is probably inherently more cloudy with more apple bits in suspension. Might have needed some pectinase to fully clear. I usually use pectinase when making stuff with cloudy cider/natural juice. I didn't use any with my batch of Graff and though I used clear juice and let the wort cool before adding to the warm juice, my finished Graff is still a little cloudy :(
 
Thanks. Novice cider maker here. Without doing a major search, do you need to add pectinase early, or can I add it later like beer clarifying finings?
 
Not going to lie, but I had some friends over the other night and this keg was gone within an hour. Good things this is relatively cheap and easy to make.
 
SkiSoloII said:
Thanks. Novice cider maker here. Without doing a major search, do you need to add pectinase early, or can I add it later like beer clarifying finings?
Click to expand...

The pectinase should be added as early as possible. It can be added later, but takes longer to work.

Here is a reference. I have to say, that when I used pectic enzyme, I don't think I ever had the must up to 80 degrees F!

http://www.winemakermag.com/stories/issue/article/issues/110-junjul-2009/858-cellar-dwellers

Most sources recommend other fining agents to remove pectin haze at the end of fermentation.

I am kind of a novice myself, but pectic enzyme at the beginning of fermentation yielded a perfectly clear Cyser made from VERY cloudy chunky organic apple juice, so I am a believer (even if it was coincidence :drunk:)
 
I've read this entire thread, and I'm going to brew this cider. I have about 30 Grolsch bottles of Aplewine left in the celler, so I have to get going.

I have a 6 gallon carboy of Honey Blonde Ale that's ready to keg. I used 1056 yeast. It's been in primary for a month now.

Chesire Cat suggested that it should be possible to leave a gallon of beer in the carboy, and just add the apple juice to the carboy, and it's good to go.

The Honey Blonde was lightly hopped. I'd like to give this a go. I have a pretty good selection of hops in the freezer, so I could add hops if needed.

Any suggestions? Chesire? Thanks.
 
bit of a newb here.....brewed this 5 days ago. Did NOT test the OG but as of last night its at 1.03 @ 74* F (coldest spot in house). I tasted the sample and it was very bitter and hoppy. Wondering if maybe I used hopped DME and added my hops ontop of that!? OOPS

I plan on kegging and have a few questions......

what SG should I cold crash at?
will the bitter/hoppy flavor subside after kegging and sitting for a few weeks?
 
Lunarpancake said:
bit of a newb here.....brewed this 5 days ago. Did NOT test the OG but as of last night its at 1.03 @ 74* F (coldest spot in house). I tasted the sample and it was very bitter and hoppy. Wondering if maybe I used hopped DME and added my hops ontop of that!? OOPS

I plan on kegging and have a few questions......

what SG should I cold crash at?
will the bitter/hoppy flavor subside after kegging and sitting for a few weeks?
Click to expand...

I cold crashed at 1011. This was after two weeks of fermentation. I had the same impression as far as taste. I am kegging tomorrow, so we'll see if it ages out.

Eric
 
Here is my plan, I am using meterials I have on hand, so bare with me.

-I plan on using the yeast cake from my Amber Ale. Is using the Yeast cake from the secondary ok? (wlp-029) Along with the bottom inch of beer that will be left in the carboy
-Store bought apple juice
-1/2 oz Cascade hops
-2lbs of light DME
-3 tsp yeast nutrient

Boil One gallon of water, and add hops for a 30 minute boil.
Add 2lbs DME and the nutrient at the 15 minute mark.
Cool wort and pour it into the carboy.
Swirl the carboy to get the good stuff in suspension.
Transfer to the 6.5 gallon bucket and add the juice.

What do you think? Like I said, this is what I have on hand. I bought the juice and DME to put onto the yeast cake from the Apfelwein that I am bottling on the 17th, but I decided to use it and my leftover hops to try and make something like Graff.
 

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