Fermentation Temp for Pilsner? (First Brew)

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mtschap

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I brewed my first batch ever yesterday. It was the Anniversary Pilsner from AHS. Being new to brewing, I didn't realized that lager yeasts are supposed to ferment at cooler temperatures before I purchased this kit. The instructions that came with the kit said that fermentation should be done at lower temperatures (not sure exactly what they were), but then there was another section that said "If you have to ferment at room temperature" to follow different steps.

That being said, the primary is in a closet in my basement (which isn't really a basement, just the first floor of my townhouse which is above ground) and was sitting at 70 degrees when I checked this morning. So my question is, is this too warm? Is my first batch ever going to be ruined, or will it be fine sitting at 70 degrees?

Any help, tips, advice is greatly appreciated, I don't want to screw up my first batch!

Forgot to mention, the yeast I used was White Labs Pilsner Lager WLP800
 
Welcome!

Sadly, 70 degrees is pretty dang hot for any lager. Lager yeasts tend to throw off weird flavors, including sulphur which takes a long time to go away and sometimes never does.

Lagers are definitely not first-brew-material, especially not pilseners that don't have as many bold flavors to cover up mistakes.

But don't be discouraged. Here's what I recommend:

1) Taste the beer after a few weeks. If it is not good, put it in a corner and forget about it for a long time.

2) Get a very simple ale kit that you would literally have to try to screw up. American Ambers, Pale Ales, Hefeweizens, simple Stouts... these are all crazy easy and use yeasts that don't require special attention to the needs of the yeast.

There are other styles to choose from that are simple for first-timers but those are just the first that come to mind.
 
Yeah, that's way too warm. Throw it in a tub of water, and cycle out frozen water bottles. Using this technique you can easily keep it at 58 or so. There's a only a few lager yeasts that can handle warm temps. Some are saflager s23, San Fran lager, Cali lager, Munich lager 2 are some.

You might be better off using a kolsch or alt yeast in the future if you can't maintain lager temps.
 
Welcome!

Sadly, 70 degrees is pretty dang hot for any lager. Lager yeasts tend to throw off weird flavors, including sulphur which takes a long time to go away and sometimes never does.

Lagers are definitely not first-brew-material, especially not pilseners that don't have as many bold flavors to cover up mistakes.

But don't be discouraged. Here's what I recommend:

1) Taste the beer after a few weeks. If it is not good, put it in a corner and forget about it for a long time.

2) Get a very simple ale kit that you would literally have to try to screw up. American Ambers, Pale Ales, Hefeweizens, simple Stouts... these are all crazy easy and use yeasts that don't require special attention to the needs of the yeast.

There are other styles to choose from that are simple for first-timers but those are just the first that come to mind.

+1000 to all of this. Could not have said it better.

Just for reference, I've been brewing for over two years and have yet to work up to a Pilsner. I just started doing lagers and I want to get them right before I move up to the Pilsner styles. Kudos on being brave!! :mug:
 
I guess I should have done some research before attempting a Pilsner! I know I like to drink beer but apparently there is a lot I don't know about how it's made (like the fact that a Pilsner is a type of lager - whoops).

Thanks for all the input, I took the advice from above and put the container in a tub with water. I've got the temp down below 60 now so I'm gonna try to keep it there and see how it goes.

If I'm able to keep it around 58 degrees how long should I leave it in the primary before transferring to the secondary carboy? The instructions that came with the kit said at one point that I would need to get the temp down to like 40 degrees for a period of time, is that necessary?

Any other helpful tips for salvaging this one would be helpful! I'm thoroughly confused now! I do have a Dale's Pale Ale clone on the way, sounds like I should have tried my hand with that kit first, oh well, live and learn! :tank:
 
Don't get too discouraged. You are making beer. Yes you will have some esters that are uncharacteristic for a Pilsner, but it will still be beer. Cool it as low as you can. You can bottle it up, let it carb, and then throw the bottles into the fridge for 3-4 weeks prior to drinking which will mimic a lagering phase.

I will be attempting my first Pilsner in a month or two (second lager). Will be about my 25th batch or so by then. Agree with others that its a tough style to perfect, it will likely take me a few tries to get it right. A temp controlled fridge is a good investment for lagers.
 
AmandaK said:
+1000 to all of this. Could not have said it better.

Just for reference, I've been brewing for over two years and have yet to work up to a Pilsner. I just started doing lagers and I want to get them right before I move up to the Pilsner styles. Kudos on being brave!! :mug:

Great pilsners are not hard to make. The most important steps are temp control, and pitching the proper amount of yeast. Other than that, the grain bill and hop schedule are pretty straight forward.

If you're already making great lagers, you'll surprise yourself when you make a great pilsner.
 
Great pilsners are not hard to make. The most important steps are temp control, and pitching the proper amount of yeast. Other than that, the grain bill and hop schedule are pretty straight forward.

If you're already making great lagers, you'll surprise yourself when you make a great pilsner.

These things I know (don't forget oxygenation!), I just wanted to make a point to the OP. I have a CAP lagering right now that is pretty on point, so next step is BoPils.


Back to the OP, I think you should keep it in the primary at below 60* and monitor the gravity readings and the taste. Once you are happy with it, you should probably lager it, that is, bring it down to as close to freezing as possible for around 4 weeks. Lagering will smooth out some (not all) or the undesirables created by the fermentation process.

:mug:
 
These things I know (don't forget oxygenation!), I just wanted to make a point to the OP. I have a CAP lagering right now that is pretty on point, so next step is BoPils.


Back to the OP, I think you should keep it in the primary at below 60* and monitor the gravity readings and the taste. Once you are happy with it, you should probably lager it, that is, bring it down to as close to freezing as possible for around 4 weeks. Lagering will smooth out some (not all) or the undesirables created by the fermentation process.

:mug:

Ok, so I've got it down to around 52* right now and am going to try to keep it between 50 and 55. However, I'm not seeing any activity in my airlock at this point. I used the full bottle of yeast that came with the kit and the pitching temp was probably 78* or so. Then it sat for about 24 hours around 70*. It was then cooled to about 58* for 24 hrs and now its down to 52*.

Unfortunately I wasn't able to get the OG since when I went to get my hydrometer I realized it was shattered. Another is on the way so as soon as I get that I will be able to start checking the gravity.

Anything else I should be doing at this point? Also, for the lagering phase, what should that be done in? The secondary, bottles, what's best?
 
Ok, so I've got it down to around 52* right now and am going to try to keep it between 50 and 55. However, I'm not seeing any activity in my airlock at this point. I used the full bottle of yeast that came with the kit and the pitching temp was probably 78* or so. Then it sat for about 24 hours around 70*. It was then cooled to about 58* for 24 hrs and now its down to 52*.

Unfortunately I wasn't able to get the OG since when I went to get my hydrometer I realized it was shattered. Another is on the way so as soon as I get that I will be able to start checking the gravity.

Anything else I should be doing at this point? Also, for the lagering phase, what should that be done in? The secondary, bottles, what's best?

Just wait it out for now. It should get going. Unfortunately, another thing about lagers is that you need lots and lots more yeast as a rule, and one vial is underpitching by about three or four times. Four vials wouldn't have been too much yeast.

In any case, the first day or so is when the yeast are reproducing, so once they reproduce and have enough yeast they can get to the business of fermentation. Lagers use a species of brewer's yeast that is bottom fermenting- so you may not see a huge krausen anyway. (Lager yeast are actually a different species than ale yeast). Just wait for a few more days and keep the temperature as stable as possible and it should get going.

I lager in a carboy or keg, but if you want to lager in the bottle that's fine.
 
Alright so my hydrometer came today and I took a reading. It came up around 1.056. The recipe says the OG should have been approx 1.051. I brewed on Sunday, unfortunately I wasn't able to get a reading then so I don't know if it's changed since. What's the possibility that fermentation never started? If that's the case, is it too late to pitch some more yeast? It certainly smells good :)
 
Alright so my hydrometer came today and I took a reading. It came up around 1.056. The recipe says the OG should have been approx 1.051. I brewed on Sunday, unfortunately I wasn't able to get a reading then so I don't know if it's changed since. What's the possibility that fermentation never started? If that's the case, is it too late to pitch some more yeast? It certainly smells good :)

If the Sg is 1.056, that means fermentation never started. You need to repitch. When you do, get three packages of yeast so that you're not underpitching so much.
 
Also, what temp should I pitch at? Can I keep it around 52 where it is now or do I need to bring the temp back up first?
 
Rehydrate two dry yeast packets of SafLager 34/70, it's the easiest thing to do. And yes, 52 or lower.

:mug:
 
I went to my local homebrew shop on Friday to pick up some more lager yeast to repitch and told them my problem. Everyone there suggested giving it a little more time, so I did. Sure enough, I noticed some activity in my airlock Saturday evening! So I think I'm on track now, just gonna be patient and let it be.

I also picked up another fermenting bucket so I could start another batch since the pilsner isn't going to be ready for a couple months. Brewed a Dale's Pale Ale clone yesterday, checked it this morning and that airlock was already going crazy! I'm excited now!

Thanks everyone for all your suggestions!

One more quick question. The Dale's clone is supposed to be dryhopped. Any suggestions on the best way for doing this? Can I leave it in the primary and just drop the hops in? Should I put the hops in my boil bag and then put them in? Should I go to the secondary for dry hopping? How long should I leave them in? I just realized that my one more quick question turned into about a half a dozen questions, oh well!
 
You still might want to pitch a pack of dry lager yeast to make sure they yeast are up for the task. But that window is closing fast.

For your follow up dry hop question. Many people dry hop after racking to secondary (carboy) or in the keg. I've done it that way and have also done it in the primary after fermentation was complete. I would not dry hop with active fermenation as the CO2 escaping would carry away your delicious aroma.

If you are using leaf hops, theres really no need to bag them. If you are using pellet hops I would buy one of these small hops bags with really fine mesh. Keeps your beer clearer as you rack into your keg or bottling bucket leaving the hops behind. The bag you use to steep grains in is not fine enough to contain pellet hops. Just dip the bag in StarSan sanitizer solution beforehand.

As to length, most people dry hop for 7-10 days at room temp. You can go longer (up to 3-4 weeks) if you dry hop in a refrigerated keg.

image_1882.jpg
 
You still might want to pitch a pack of dry lager yeast to make sure they yeast are up for the task. But that window is closing fast.

To be honest, I think it's too late. If fermentation has (I'm assuming) started then they are past the reproductive phase and pitching more yeast would be pointless.

I believe any damage that is going to be done already has been done. Yeast reproduce until they are at an optimal concentration for the environment and if they have to work harder (i.e. underpitching) they throw off more off-flavors. And it will probably be worse seeing as they're doing it in 70*F conditions.
 
To be honest, I think it's too late. If fermentation has (I'm assuming) started then they are past the reproductive phase and pitching more yeast would be pointless.

I believe any damage that is going to be done already has been done. Yeast reproduce until they are at an optimal concentration for the environment and if they have to work harder (i.e. underpitching) they throw off more off-flavors. And it will probably be worse seeing as they're doing it in 70*F conditions.

It was only at 70* for about 24 hrs after pitching. It's been sitting at about 52* for a week now. So I'm just gonna let it do it's thing from here and see how it turns out.
 
Alright, so I'm three weeks in and this is what it looks like now. Seems to be doing it's thing slowly but surely. I know it's just one picture but does everything look ok to you guys? I was planning to transfer to a carboy after 4 weeks for lagering. Is this what I should be doing? Any other tips/suggestions?

I finally got a second fridge so no more frozen water bottles! Just need to get the fridge at the right temp.

IMG_20120624_161102.jpg
 
I looks fine but you'll never know how it's really doing unless you take a hydrometer reading. Once it's hit close-to FG you should taste it. It's it tastes butterscotchy or has a slick feel on your tongue then bring it to 60-65°F for a day or two.

Then, once you hit FG, start your lagering and proceed as normal.
 
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