Automated volume sensing idea/help

BenS said:

Stream does not (or should not) be seen by the sensor. I am more worried about debugging the sensor for the temp change and the nonreflective surface of the foam. Haven't gotten it yet...

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I have used ultrasonic for many years for measuring levels of various materials. Most are not affected by dust or turbulance. I would think that foam would not be an issue but if your using it to measure level in HLT or MLT, foam shouldnt really be an issue. Im in the process of puting mine together with a Micrologix 1500 PLC and plan on using ultrasonic for the HLT. Plus this is just my 2¢.

MagooBrew said:

I have used ultrasonic for many years for measuring levels of various materials. Most are not affected by dust or turbulance. I would think that foam would not be an issue but if your using it to measure level in HLT or MLT, foam shouldnt really be an issue. Im in the process of puting mine together with a Micrologix 1500 PLC and plan on using ultrasonic for the HLT. Plus this is just my 2¢.

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Nice. Micrologix! I know a professor who had one that wanted me to program it and build him an automated brewery. Unfortunately, at the time I knew nothing about that ladder logic programming language. Would love to have one of my own to play with.

MrNatural said:

Pretty slick, but datasheet specs only rate it to 150°F, so would probably fail in brewing conditions.

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I highly doubt the stream over 12" above the liquid is 150F in an atmospheric pressure.

Arduino ultrasonic volume measurement thingy:

http://www.jo3ri.be/arduino/blogduino/arduinodualtanklevelmeasuringhasbeenupdated

Maxkling said:

There are plenty of devices to measure level along an analog scale.

They are just very expensive.

http://www.omega.com/toc_asp/sectionSC.asp?section=K&book=green&flag=1

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Wondering if anyone has any experience with a proximity sensor strapped to siteglass?

http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSe...ch=1&WT.content=text&WT.source=google&cur=USD

Sometimes I think this get over engineered when they can be very simple. I know you said no float switch but it doesn't need to be attached to the pot. I attached it to my sparge arm so the whole thing comes out in one piece and is not part of the pot.

Monster Mash said:

Sometimes I think this get over engineered when they can be very simple. I know you said no float switch but it doesn't need to be attached to the pot. I attached it to my sparge arm so the whole thing comes out in one piece and is not part of the pot.

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Slick setup, with simple elegance! I'm guessing the whole assembly is vertically adjustable for different batch sizes? Do you have a source/price you can share?

Still interested in a way to set sparge volume, what is the range of sensing with that float?

Thanks, Dale

MrNatural said:

... Do you have a source/price you can share?

Still interested in a way to set sparge volume, what is the range of sensing with that float?

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eBay, search "Stainless Float Switch". There's plenty of different lengths, mounting options. I have a few of them for my rig, they were about $8 each.

Interesting ideas here! For those of you using pressure sensors (like with the Brewtroller), do you use this on a MLT? If so, wouldn't the suction from the pump during recirculation lead to inaccuracies during recirculation?

Brewer Gerard said:

It's just that i've done a very modest bit of research on this and i found even with far more sophisticated sensors there is a degree of tuning required based on the environment in question. That's not to say this approach can't work.

How about this thread be used to motivate us to be he first to find an actual practical use for this HC-SR04 module. Winner can prove that the module measures accurately enough to automatically deliver a specified volume of strike water to a mash tun. This means the system has to stop the HLT being filled at the desired volume, hit the desired strike temp and subsequently stop the pump to the mash tun when enough strike water has been transferred.

In case any one thinks i have a head start i still don't have power/water in my brewery

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Has anyone done it yet? I might embark on this mission as my first foray into Arduino programming. I'd hate to just replicate something that's already been done.

MrNatural said:

Ok, the folks in here seem more whack than the other forums, and I'm counting on that for ideas/feedback for optical volume sensor.

Did a thread search and found a bunch of float switch setups, but don't like the idea of having extra stuff hanging in my keggles and was concerned about accuracy when moving between keggles. And proximity and other sensors I found were major $$$$$.

Thanks, Dale

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Just saw this post when I was hunting for ideas. I also found a tape based volume sensor for use with Arduino. It's Teflon sealed and rated for use with foods. Was just toying with the idea so haven't explored it in depth myself. Here is the sensor http://www.adafruit.com/products/1786

Good luck

BlkWater_brewer said:

Just saw this post when I was hunting for ideas. I also found a tape based volume sensor for use with Arduino. It's Teflon sealed and rated for use with foods. Was just toying with the idea so haven't explored it in depth myself. Here is the sensor http://www.adafruit.com/products/1786

Good luck

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It's only rated to 150*F. mashes get hotter than that, and if it's to be mounted on the side of a pot, the tape could potentially be even hotter if gas-fired.

aangel said:

It's only rated to 150*F. mashes get hotter than that, and if it's to be mounted on the side of a pot, the tape could potentially be even hotter if gas-fired.

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Like I said, I stumbled across it before I saw your post - never looked at the details too closely. Back to the drawing board. How about an Arduino based flow control valve on the input side, measures vol. based on a turning paddle wheel valve. Originally was targeting it as means of monitoring how much beer was left in a keg.

I saw the strip sensor, as well, but the temp rating scared me off. I've already ordered the HC-SR04 ultrasonic sensors to see if I can get them to accurately measure mash and BK levels. I'll let you guys know if I have success.

Good Luck with those ultrasonic sensors!

Got the sensors in on Saturday, tested them out and they seem to be working reliably on the breadboard. Next step is seeing if they still work when they're firing into a closed kettle...

Would like to know how this works out for you.

Had another thought, but I'm a bit out of my element here. I have sight gauges on my tanks so how about a low pressure air sensor mounted on the top of the sight tubes? Could this work for 15 gallon batches or would it work on a 300 gallon system? Thinking that the pressure differential would be too small on 15 gallon volumes.

As a side note, here is an interesting page i found with the 12 main ways to measure volume and how they work.
From here its just a matter of figuring out which one is the easiest to implement.

http://www.sensorsmag.com/sensors/leak-level/a-dozen-ways-measure-fluid-level-and-how-they-work-1067

External temperature variations might make the reliability questionable. Are you building a 300 gal system?

Was looking at the MS5805 as way to measure volume.

Datasheet-http://www.datasheetlib.com/datasheet/1438323/ms5805-02ba01_msi-measurement-specialties-inc.html

Not sure of the sensitivity yet, but I was thinking of attaching via some sort of tubing to my existing sight gauge tube and connecting it via analog pins on my Beaglebone Black. The additional pressure in the sight gauge should be enough. Goal is to use on a 6 bbl system. I'm sure there are a number of reasons it won't work but.....

I am thinking of using optical sight glass sensors. They would not be analog, but I don't see that being an issue. Just set the height on the sight glass, and monitor when they switch.

-BD

BlkWater_brewer said:

Was looking at the MS5805 as way to measure volume.

Datasheet-http://www.datasheetlib.com/datasheet/1438323/ms5805-02ba01_msi-measurement-specialties-inc.html

Not sure of the sensitivity yet, but I was thinking of attaching via some sort of tubing to my existing sight gauge tube and connecting it via analog pins on my Beaglebone Black. The additional pressure in the sight gauge should be enough. Goal is to use on a 6 bbl system. I'm sure there are a number of reasons it won't work but.....

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It looks interesting, but there's only 2.5mbar per inch of water, so the full range of operation for a typical kettle is only going to be 25-50 mbar. I'd be worried about resolution on a sensor that has a range of 2000 mbar. The data sheet shows a resolution of 0.02 to 0.35 mbar depending on oversampling rate. I think it would be fine if that's the real resolution, but it seems like a pretty optimistic spec.

The digital pressure sensor was the right idea, just the wrong product, look at the LM series analog sensors with ss diaphragm and pvc body http://www.meas-spec.com/downloads/LM.pdf. When mounted away from the hot process they work well as the static fluid in the tubing cools to ambient and protects sensor. I use remote mounted pressure transmitters and software to correct density based on temperature of liquid in kettle and estimated SG. While not perfect it is usually very close across wide range of conditions in the automated system

JKoravos said:

Has anyone done it yet? I might embark on this mission as my first foray into Arduino programming. I'd hate to just replicate something that's already been done.

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I've been up to my eyes for the last few years but i'm back on this project now and am going to give a proper go.

It's been a while since you posted JKoravos. did you have any sucess?

Brewer Gerard said:

I've been up to my eyes for the last few years but i'm back on this project now and am going to give a proper go.

It's been a while since you posted JKoravos. did you have any sucess?

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I've got the code working for the sensor. It seems to work reasonably well. It's a matter of implementation now. I've been putting a lot of effort toward my brew system, in general, lately so I may get to the implementation soon, as well.

I think as long as the sensor is reasonably well protected from the hot, moist air over the liquid, it should work well enough. The trick is keeping it flushed with relatively dry, "cool" air.