Open Fermentor question

I am doing my first lager (using Czech Pils Wyeast) on the balcony using a Coopers 10 gallon fermentor with loose fitting lid. Here's a pic: http://www.stompthemgrapes.com/Buckets_and_Carboys-10_GALLON_PRIMARY_FERMENTER_and_LID.html

Because I'm supposed to leave it in primary for at least 14 days I'm confused. Isn't the beer going to get contaminated or oxidized? I usually leave it in there for 3-5 days only because its not an air tight system.

I'd prefer to transfer to carboy any time now, but this will mess with the fermenting process, diacetyl, etc right?

I had the same questions a few weeks ago about brewing with a loose lid. What transpired:

a) Relax, bacterias/wild yeast aren't ninjas, they need to drop into the fermenter to do their thing. Just like brewer's yeast. The lid blocks them from entering.

b) Unless you mess with the beer and splash it around, the CO2 barrier will stay where it is. It is heavier than air after all. You can take gravity readings fine if you are careful.

c) You don't have to leave the lid loose all the way around. Clip it in place but just be sure you have a little space for the excess gas to escape. Once fermentation is over, just clip it and watch for temperature swings that could knock the Co2 out of solution. You don't want that. If it does happen, just "burp" the lid and seal it back. Voila.

Now, you are doing this outside and I'd be a bit concerned about the possibilities of the wind blowing the lid off or fruit flies/insect crawling into the fermenter. Plus fermentation temperature control isn't eactly good right now with sunny days and freezing nights. Maybe it's better in BC ? I'd try putting a saran wrap layer on top of the lid so that nothing can get in easily.

I have exactly same 10 gal fermenter that came with my brewing kit. I on my first batch and I already don't trust it at all. When I was fermenting my first batch all went good in first couple of days, there is plenty of head room for krousen to form but I siriously would not leave it there for more than a week, its plain dangerous and it can ruin your beer. On day 5 I noticed some fruit flies around and inside of my brew bucket and noticed some sort of infection as white spot, I immediatelly racked it in 5 gal glass carboy (also came with the kit) and after 2 weeks in sealed secondary all looks good, my beer is not infected I purchased second glass 5 gal carboy from Save-on for $19.99, can't go wrong with that. I just don't trust plastic anymore. Its hard to clean and get rid of smells from plastic fermenters, the lid is so loose that flies literally can crawl inside, thats scary. I never seen fruit flies around my house before but as soon as you start fermenting, smell attracts them and they apear from no where! I now converted this plastic fermentor into lagering station. Its big enough to fit glass carboy inside and I insulated it with spray foam on outisde to help with temperature control. I will put glass carboy inside, fill with water and throw some frozen water bottles to keep temperature around 50 F for lagering, should work like a charm. I love lagers and pilsners and don't have a room for dedicated lagering fridge. No plastic for me anymore, in glass you can safely leave it there for weeks without any worries

paraordnance said:

I I now converted this plastic fermentor into lagering station. Its big enough to fit glass carboy inside and I insulated it with spray foam on outisde to help with temperature control. I will put glass carboy inside, fill with water and throw some frozen water bottles to keep temperature around 50 F for lagering, should work like a charm. I love lagers and pilsners and don't have a room for dedicated lagering fridge. No plastic for me anymore, in glass you can safely leave it there for weeks without any worries

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Seems like we have the same Canadian Coopers kit equipment. You're right about the flies hovering around there, but I wouldn't worry too much as I have never seen them in my primary after doing so many batches. When there's a lot around they sometimes get into the primary or carboy at bottling time anyways, I wouldn't worry about it.

Thats a really good idea to use the primary for a cooling benefit. With the smaller amount of water touching the carboy, the ice should go a long way it seems. Whats your ambient temps, how much ice do you add and how many times a day do you add it?

On my balcony I am doing the opposite: using a 120 litre Rubbermaid tote full of water and one carboy inside. This larger amount of water keeps the temps swings down, ie. if its 12 at night and 18 in the day then the swing to those temps inside the carboy is slower, hopefully allowing the yeast time to adjust even though 18 is too warm.. I just wish it wasnt sunny, I have one carboy inside a cardboard box, completely tarped off for the rain. Pretty ghetto.

jfr1111 said:

I had the same questions a few weeks ago about brewing with a loose lid. What transpired:

c) You don't have to leave the lid loose all the way around. Clip it in place but just be sure you have a little space for the excess gas to escape. Once fermentation is over, just clip it and watch for temperature swings that could knock the Co2 out of solution. You don't want that. If it does happen, just "burp" the lid and seal it back. Voila.

Now, you are doing this outside and I'd be a bit concerned about the possibilities of the wind blowing the lid off or fruit flies/insect crawling into the fermenter. Plus fermentation temperature control isn't eactly good right now with sunny days and freezing nights. Maybe it's better in BC ? I'd try putting a saran wrap layer on top of the lid so that nothing can get in easily.

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I'm not really sure how to clip the lid, maybe I will try to get some saran wrap for it to ensure the rim really connects with lid fully. Thats such an excellent and simple idea, I think you saved me from buying a couple more carboys! Thanks.

There are pretty big temp swings here too, but thankfully the lowest its been is 10 in the last week. More like 12-20, but only 20 for 4-5 hours a day so not too bad. It must be hard when you're swinging from 0-20 everyday?

Ummmm read around a guy just posted about having maggots in his "loose lid fermenter" We have airlocks for a reason guys!

That fermenter is meant to be used with wine. Wine can be more openly fermented because it has a higher alcohol content.

I have found the dead bodies of fruitflies in my airlock, how they got in the microscopic holes in the lid of the airlock I have no idea, but the airlock kept them out of my beer.

Beer is a big bucket of sugar and yeast, it will attract insects.

If you insist upon using that fermenter I would drill a hole in the lid and install an airlock and either duct tape the lid down or use clamps and keg lube to secure the lid.

Unless you have an ultra clean airtight environment like a brewery does you are asking for trouble not sealing lids and using airlocks.

HighGravity said:

Seems like we have the same Canadian Coopers kit equipment. You're right about the flies hovering around there, but I wouldn't worry too much as I have never seen them in my primary after doing so many batches. When there's a lot around they sometimes get into the primary or carboy at bottling time anyways, I wouldn't worry about it.

Thats a really good idea to use the primary for a cooling benefit. With the smaller amount of water touching the carboy, the ice should go a long way it seems. Whats your ambient temps, how much ice do you add and how many times a day do you add it?

On my balcony I am doing the opposite: using a 120 litre Rubbermaid tote full of water and one carboy inside. This larger amount of water keeps the temps swings down, ie. if its 12 at night and 18 in the day then the swing to those temps inside the carboy is slower, hopefully allowing the yeast time to adjust even though 18 is too warm.. I just wish it wasnt sunny, I have one carboy inside a cardboard box, completely tarped off for the rain. Pretty ghetto.

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I think my was Spargolis kit but bucket is identical. I just starting homebrewing so have no experience so far, will be lagering my next batch of Stella clone from Austin's and have more questions than answers. Here the link to some photos of my ghetto lager station Hope it works

Lagering without fridge

If the lid cannot be closed and stays loose all the time, duct tape will probably do the trick. I'm not a fancy man.

I'd also be worried about glass shattering outside if the wind picks up. Before anyone argues with me on this point, my barbecue jumped the railing on my second story balcony last Halloween due to strong winds.