Berliner Weiss, many ways

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Well, I picked up a couple more packets and pitched them before I saw all the posts here (thanks for the suggestions) and it's percolating away in less than 12 hours.

I was a little concerned with some of the growths on the top of the mash. Kind of white fuzzy clumps seen in the pictures below
The mash smelled like cooked corn and that was it, no other rancid smells. I batch sparged with 4 gallons at 175 and skimmed the white fuzzys off. Then finished the as normal.
After 20 min boil and I had 1.037 cooled to 75 and pitched the three packets of S05.
I realize this is a low SRM but never seen a wort this gray grey before. It tasted fantastic with the perfect amount of sour for me.
Really hope this turns out.

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My sour mash had great sourness but some vomit smell to it. I boiled for 90 minutes but the vomit was still there. I wen't ahead and pitched a pack of 05 into it and let it go 3 weeks. The finished beer has excellent flavor and no vomit taste, but still has a faint vomit aroma. I decided to pitch brett into it to see if it would clean up the aroma. Pitched dregs from an Orval and 3 Jolly Pumpkin La Rojas into it and stuck it in the closet. It will be a while but I will update with the results.

I also made a sour wort version, but it's moving along slowly. It may be another couple of months before it sours to my liking.
 
What is the general consensus on going to secondary vs. bottling out of primary?
I'm 12 days in primary and krausen just dropped a couple days ago. Has a nice cloudy light gold apperence and smells great. Should I bottle or rack to a secondary ?
This was the sour mash process.
Thanks!
 
Wow!! this tastes wonderful!
So excited to try it carbed.
Racked 1 gal on tart cherries
1 gal on blackberries
The other three were corked in Belgian bottles at 3.5v
Finished at 1.004 so a little high at 4% abv.
 
so.. i cant read through 40+ pages, was there a consensus? or is it that they all work and choose what works for you (a la BIAB vs 3 vessel)?
 
I'm about 24 hours into my first BW fermentation and its taken off really well it seems. I did a Mash hop with Saaz leaf, 15 minute boil, chilled to 120 & pitched 2 tubes of wlp677. I have it sitting in my shed outside right now wrapped in a blanket. It's got to be about 90-115 in there.

I'm thinking about taking a sample tonight to see how much sugar the wlp677 is consuming and to gauge the acidity level. I plan on moving it to room temp when its acidic/sour enough and hopefully before too much sugar is consumed then the plan is to pitch 1 tube of Yeast Bay's Brett Blend and some Cascade dregs.
 
I'm thinking about taking a sample tonight to see how much sugar the wlp677 is consuming and to gauge the acidity level. I plan on moving it to room temp when its acidic/sour enough and hopefully before too much sugar is consumed then the plan is to pitch 1 tube of Yeast Bay's Brett Blend and some Cascade dregs.

Unfortunately wlp677 is capable of producing alcohol and will eat through all the sugar. I had the same thought when I used it, only to find out it's more than capable of fermenting the entire thing without producing any initial sour...just tons of sulfur tasting beer. Mine is now about 6 months in with a slight sour and is starting to taste really nice. Ph is currently at 3.8. Was 4.4 after 8 days above 90* and 1.009 with only wlp677.

Did you buy it because it was half the price of wyeast? That's the reason I did and it was a big mistake for the quick bw I was going for.
 
I bought it because my lhbs doesn't carry wyeast. I could've ordered it but didn't realize I was gonna do. BW til last Thursday night, & I didn't want to wait. Grain bill was about 7.5% acid malt fwiw was thinking maybe that would help. Gonna check on it tonight and see.


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Keep us updated. I'd love to hear your results with the acid malt and the gravity. Do you have a ph meter?
 
Keep us updated. I'd love to hear your results with the acid malt and the gravity. Do you have a ph meter?


I do, however I did not realize I needed to buy 2 different buffer solutions to calibrate it. It did come with a piece of paper that looks like someone from the factory calibrated the ph10 anyway, so I dont know how accurate it would be if I used it now.

Just pulled the first sample, even at the warmer temps its reading 1010. I think I'm gonna pull it inside and pitch the Brett and Dregs.
 
I did my first Berliner with the acid malt method. It will lower the PH of the mash to sour levels, but it's a MUCH different sour taste than getting real lactobacillus to create lactic acid in a sour mash/starter, or for brett to create a sour in an extended sour fermentation.

The sour of an acid malt mash is thin and sharp. Trust me, it's the lowest quality of all of the ways to sour a beer. There's more to a good sour than just low PH.

**just to clarify, that's if you are ONLY using acid malt. I think the poster who mentioned acid malt is also planning on extended fermentation with Brett.**
 
So I just got done reading the May/June issue of BYO and the suggestion in there for a Berliner Weisse is to pitch the saccharomyces at 60F first and let go for a day and then to pitch Brett and Lacto and leave at 60F for 3-4 weeks then bottle....Any thoughts on this? Seems backwards from everything that I am reading here. Thanks!
 
So I just got done reading the May/June issue of BYO and the suggestion in there for a Berliner Weisse is to pitch the saccharomyces at 60F first and let go for a day and then to pitch Brett and Lacto and leave at 60F for 3-4 weeks then bottle....Any thoughts on this? Seems backwards from everything that I am reading here. Thanks!

Are you sure that's what it says? You are not going to get a noticable sour in 4 weeks at 60F. It's just not going to happen. It's going to take more like 4 months at that temp to even start to be sour. Alternately, you could do it in 3 days at about 100-120F.

Are you sure that BYO method doesn't include a sour starter? That would make more sense.
 
Are you sure that's what it says? You are not going to get a noticable sour in 4 weeks at 60F. It's just not going to happen. It's going to take more like 4 months at that temp to even start to be sour. Alternately, you could do it in 3 days at about 100-120F.

Are you sure that BYO method doesn't include a sour starter? That would make more sense.

I haven't read the article, but Topher is right and it will take at least 4 months to sour, probably closer to 8. BYO articles seem to have lots of little issues and misinformation, which is why I canceled my subscription.

To get a quick sour you'll either need to do a sour mash or pitch wyeast lacto and hold above 90* until it's sour enough. White Labs lacto takes months, but pretty sure wyeast is pure and won't ferment down the beer.
 
I've used this method twice with fantastic results.
Sour Mash with 2 handfuls of unmilled grain. Stick under heat lamp for 5 days, use saran wrap to keep oxygen out. Collect wort and boil, finish with US-05.
The sour it creates is awesome.
 
Thanks for the response guys! Ya I keep re-reading the article and I'm pretty sure I'm reading it right. You do make a brett and lacto starter but it says to be done the same day as the brew day off off some extra wort so its only going for 24 hrs tops. Its funny because the article even highlights that you have to let the sacc get a head start on the brett and lacto. Unless I'm reading something wrong I think I will just stick with the info I'm pulling from HBT. :mug:
 
It is vague on specifics, but basically, BYO says pitch the yeast a couple of days before the lacto, and to maintain temperatures about 60 F. The lacto is started at the same time as the yeast in a separate 2L starter.

I have never tried this method, but would expect, like others, that this will result in little souring, if any that is noticeable.

I like to sour my wort first at 100 F for several days, and only when it is sour enough, do I add the yeast.

If you have a heterofermentative lacto (makes alcohol, and reduces gravity), you shouldn't worry. It is making alcohol (doing what the yeast would do) while making lactic acid. I have found that it needs to get down to below 1.010 to be decently sour with that type of lacto before adding any yeast. Assumes a low OG of around 1.035. With homofermentative lacto, the OG barely changes because the lactic acid has a similar gravity to the sugars.

I generally have my BWs in the bottle in 4 weeks and drinking at 6.

Question: has anyone done a BW the way BYO suggests? What were the results?
 
Update:

I confirmed the "over 10 IBU keeps lacto in check" rule. My lacto culture did almost nothing to my sour wort BW. It has had a month and a half to work on it and there is only the faintest hint of sour. I'm going to add lactic acid at kegging to compensate, but I won't be making that mistake again.
 
Update:

I confirmed the "over 10 IBU keeps lacto in check" rule. My lacto culture did almost nothing to my sour wort BW. It has had a month and a half to work on it and there is only the faintest hint of sour. I'm going to add lactic acid at kegging to compensate, but I won't be making that mistake again.

If you're good with having twice as much, I was in a similar situation with a gose that wasn't souring. I just made another batch but sour mashed and made it a bit more sour than I'd want. I then blended the batches before bottling. It came out great.
 
Update:

I confirmed the "over 10 IBU keeps lacto in check" rule. My lacto culture did almost nothing to my sour wort BW. It has had a month and a half to work on it and there is only the faintest hint of sour. I'm going to add lactic acid at kegging to compensate, but I won't be making that mistake again.

Some lacto can't tolerate any hops at all. I've used Lacto Acidopohilis (probiotics) a couple of times. In wort with zero hops it works great. In wort with 'a hint' of hops (starter wort boiled for a few minutes with a couple of pellets) it did nothing.

The only hops I use in my BWs these days are dry hops (after all the souring is done).
 
Some lacto can't tolerate any hops at all. I've used Lacto Acidopohilis (probiotics) a couple of times. In wort with zero hops it works great. In wort with 'a hint' of hops (starter wort boiled for a few minutes with a couple of pellets) it did nothing.

The only hops I use in my BWs these days are dry hops (after all the souring is done).

Dry hopping is a good idea, what hops do you use?
 
I just did a no-boil psuedo-BW (the yeast bay's funktown pale ale yeast, so I don't really count it as a BW) with 0.5oz of 5.1 AA (though, they have been in my freezer for a while, so they are probably closer to 4.8 by now) Fuggle hops in the mash.

I'll post back how this turns out sour-wise later so say if those hops inhibited too much or too little.
 
Dry hopping is a good idea, what hops do you use?

I've used a couple of experimental hops that have been ok, but I have mostly used Nelson Sauvin, which has turned out great. Only need about an ounce in 5 gallons; don't want anything overpowering.
 
Recently tried my first berliner. Did DME of wheat mix, tossed 1 lb unmilled grain and kept in a cooler at roughly 110 degrees for three days. I bought a CO2 charger for purging hoping to not lug my 20# tank from fridge to fermentation vessel twice a day. CO2 charger worked poorly but had enough to purge the co2 until the last look in. I never had anything but a creamed corn smell until I couldn't purge anymore. Started to get the rancid diaper smell and tossed into carboy with a liter starter of white labs california ale. (needed a very quick turnaround to be ready on-time for some friends visiting.) after three days fermenting cooled for a day in kegerator, then force carbed and served 6 days after starting. decent sour taste though young. after a couple of days sour came along nice and is really starting to age well. I can't believe how well this thing turned out with dme and such a short time table. i am churning through this keg and cant wait to brew another berliner
 
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