First AG (ended up not so AG)

So I was pumped today to do my first AG. I have three batches to brew this weekend for the upcoming HbT competition. Today was the dunkelweizen! Everything went just perfectly, couldn't have asked for all my new equipment to work better. I used my new 8 gal Megapot with weldless fittings installed, heatstick, and IC. Pot didn't leak, heatstick helped the boil amazingly and didn't pop the GFI, and the IC cooled it all down super quick. My boil off rate was even just about dead on.

My only problem was that I ended up with 55% efficiency I mashed everything for 90 mins at 153F. My temp at the end of the mash was 149, so I lost a little (probably took the lid off a few times too many to stir), but still not horrible. I sparged twice with 2 gal each time at 168F. My mash pH was between 5.2 and 5.5, which is the best I could measure with my strips. I did an iodine test from the mash water and it came up nice and light brown.

So no idea how my efficiency sucked so much, but hopefully it's better for tomorrow's batches. I had the foresight to add an extra pound of wheat DME at the end of boil based on my pre-boil gravity, so my SG was OK when all was said and done.

Did you take SG readings from each runnings.
How much do you usually boil off?

I just did a Crystal wheat, target was 6 gallons.
22:20 First runnings 2.3gal, SG 1.068
22:28 Bed 158F Second runnings 2.5gal, SG 1.028
22:35 Bed 168F Third runnings 2.5 gal, SG 1.012
It's cooling now, got a little more volume than I had planned, missed the temps by a few degrees, etc. It's kind of humid here so it did not boil down as much as normal.
It took me a few times to get the volume and process down and still I'm off at times.
Just take lot's of notes and it will help you work it out.

How many pounds of grain and what size MLT?

Maybe the grains weren't crushed enough.

How long did it take you to sparge??

I just did my first AG and it was recommended that you allow you sample to cool significantly before taking any S.G. readings. If you did not do so, did you correct your readings for the temperature of the sample? BeerSmith has an option to correct your readings. My initial reading was 1.06 @ 118 degrees and a corrected reading was 1.07. My second or post boil reading was 1.057 @ 86 and was corrected to 1.058 using BeerSmith. I believe these numbers can significantly change your efficiency, so you need to have accurate readings.

My first AG efficiency was 85.6% based upon the adjusted numbers. I was quite amazed that I got such results on my first attempt. I am probably black catting myself, but I sure hope I can keep up with these kinds of results.

I also stirred my mash several times (lightly) during the 90 mash period. My temp during the mash maintained 150 -151. I sparged with 169 degree water.

Good Luck with your brew. I am sure it will be very good.

Salute!

Try sparging with hotter water.

It was 9.75 lbs of grain (~65% wheat), which should have come to about 1.055 with 75% effciency. My MLT is a 5 gal round drink cooler and I used 1.25 qt/lb and made sure to stir the bajesus out of it before letting it sit.

I didn't take gravity from each run off, I only have a hydrometer and don't want to mess with it. I did take a pre-boil gravity after combining it all, and that was what got me to add the DME. I put it in the freezer to bring the temp down, measured it when the sample was about 84 degrees and made the appropriate calc with my hydrometer. I ended up with 1.053 including the DME.

As for the crush, I milled it at the store and it seemed pretty well milled, but I don't really know. I don't remember seeing any whole grains in there.

To sparge, I added the water, stirred it all around, vorluafed 4-5 times with about a gallon each pass through. Did that twice. I never left the sparge water to sit, should I? I will try hotter water, maybe 170F this time.

By hotter, he means like 185F. Don't worry about letting the sparge sit, just make sure you stir it in well, vorlauf a couple quarts, then drain.

Did you see any dough balls? A little round cooler is hard to stir, particularly when loaded with a large grain bill.

Sorry to hijack this thread, but I thought 185 would cause astringency. I have a stuck sparge going right now. I've been lautering for two hours. Are you suggesting I should just heat the rest of the sparge water up to 185, stir, vorlauf, and lauter the rest? Last time I did that without letting the sparge sit, I got terrible efficiency.

Heat the watter to whatever will raise the grain bed to ~168. I mash out so 180 works out about right for me.

So you want the grain bed to get to 168, not add water at 168? Hmm, wonder why BeerSmith told me to add at 168?

I don't think that sparge temp played a big part in your low efficiency. Kaiser has used plan tap watter and not seen a big hit. I can only think it could have been a terrible crush or dough balls.

tight crush, slow, hot sparge.

blackwaterbrewer said:

tight crush, slow, hot sparge.

Click to expand...

You saying that is good or bad?

I emptied out the MLT and didn't see any dough balls, all the grain looked pretty damp. Still unsure on the sparge temp thing. Should I add sparge water at 180-185, whcih in theory should bring the grain bed to about 168-170?

Batch sparging you can let it run off as fast as possible without compacting the grain bed too much. Slow sparge is for fly sparging. I sparge with the mash at 165-168f.

I have to use Like 190 degree water to get the grain bed at about 167

OK, so the consensus seems to be I need to add water that is much hotter than I am. I did some reading around, and this also seems to be general opinion everywhere. Not sure why BeerSmith is set for me to add sparge water heated to 168F. I see I can alter that, but I would think it would calculate it for you if you want the grain bed to be X temp. Am I missing something there? I'll try adding at 185F and my next batch and see what temp that gets me. Does the second sparge addition need to be cooler since the grain bed will already be closer to temp? So something like 1st sparge = 185F, 2nd sparge = 175F?

You guys rock, my batch today is damn near spot on 75% efficiency based on my pre-boil gravity reading. The only thing I changed was my sparge strike temps. I did 180F for the first as I was concerned I'd go over temp, but I ended up at 165F in the grain bed. The second sparge I bumped the strike temp to 185F and was at about 170F in the grain bed. I did my 'gravity dance' for SWMBO when I got my gravity results (she wasn't too impressed, but feigned happiness anyway).

What were your final numbers, pre-pitch? Did you hit there too?

I was more like 72% than 75% in the end, but I'll take it! It's still in range for the style, I shot for the high end of the style just in case I was a little low. My final volume was a little over 5 gal, about 5.1 gal. I ended up with 1.056 as my pre-pitch gravity. That just means I was a little off in my volume estimate when I took my pre-boil gravity. I'm working on getting the sight glass on the pot calibrated properly. I did it a little hastily to be ready to brew this weekend.

I'm just speculating, but the reason BS probably comes with a default sparge temp of 168F is because they assume a mash out addition. There are so many distinct processes but here's a general summary:

Fly Sparge - mash out infusion or direct heat the grain bed to 168f PRIOR to any runoff. Sparge with 168F to maintain that temp.

Batch Sparge - mash out infusion or direct heat the grain bed to 168f PRIOR to any runoff. Sparge with 168F to maintain that temp.

OR

Run off first runnings at mash temp. Sparge with hot enough water to ultimately get the bed up the high 160's.

NMOBS (No Mash Out Batch Sparge) is the way to go in my opinion. I'd recommend getting a refractometer also. They make taking your first runnings and sparge gravities so much easier.