How much yeast in my Ball Jar?

So this may be any unanswerable question:

I have a ball jar with washed yeast in it. After settling for a few days the yeast is at the 250 ml mark. Is there a non-technical way to guesstimate how many billion cells I have in there? I want to make a starter for a 3 gallon batch of Barleywine with an OG of 1.130 and I am trying not to over pitch.

Maybe I should make this a contest. How many yeasties in the ball jar?!

Thanks for the help.

Use the MrMalty Calculator slurry tool. For a 3 gallon batch OG of 1.130 you'd probably want about 125ml of that condensed yeast, however, depends on how long you have had it? Maybe the viability has gone down...

http://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_pitchrates.cfm

Scroll to the bottom of the page.

Great information. So assuming this is what I have. I am guess in 10% solids @ 18 billion cells per ml and I need to pitch twice the recommended rate? This yeast is 3rd gen and was harvested this past Sunday. Sound about right?

Woodland has been suggesting typical concentration is 1-2 billion per ml, depending on the strain. I think Wyeast says 1.2 billion per ml in their FAQ.

I've heard jamil say the default rate for yeast slurry on mrmalty is really fairly accurate...especially looking at what you have there. Looks like you did a killer job rinsing the yeast.

What's your process for rinsing? Just interested to hear how you do it

thirstyutahn said:

I've heard jamil say the default rate for yeast slurry on mrmalty is really fairly accurate...especially looking at what you have there. Looks like you did a killer job rinsing the yeast.

What's your process for rinsing? Just interested to hear how you do it

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For this particular batch I had a very large cake as I had pitched a IIPA on top of a APA. I boiled the jars/lids and chilled with the sanitized water. Because of the size of the cake I used (4) 1/2 gallon jars and 4 pint jars. I dumped 1/2 gallon of sanitized water on cake and mixed. Poured off into the (4) 1/2 gallon jars. Let sit ~30 minutes to separate. Then I decanted into the 4 pint jars. Next I decanted the remainder into a 1/2 gallon jar. Fairly simple.

Rehlgood said:

For this particular batch I had a very large cake as I had pitched a IIPA on top of a APA. I boiled the jars/lids and chilled with the sterilized water. Because of the size of the cake I used (4) 1/2 gallon jars and 4 pint jars. I dumped 1/2 gallon of sterilized water on cake and mixed. Poured off into the (4) 1/2 gallon jars. Let sit ~30 minutes to separate. Then I decanted into the 4 pint jars. Next I decanted the remainder into a 1/2 gallon jar. Fairly simple.

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Good process, and I am being nit-picky, but the word sterilized in your post should be "sanitized" - Unless you used a pressure cooker/canner the water is sanitized, not sterilized. I don't think people have had infection issues with this process, so like I said "nit-picky"

brettwasbtd said:

Good process, and I am being nit-picky, but the word sterilized in your post should be "sanitized" - Unless you used a pressure cooker/canner the water is sanitized, not sterilized. I don't think people have had infection issues with this process, so like I said "nit-picky"

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Edited for your reading enjoyment.

Rehlgood said:

For this particular batch I had a very large cake as I had pitched a IIPA on top of a APA. I boiled the jars/lids and chilled with the sanitized water. Because of the size of the cake I used (4) 1/2 gallon jars and 4 pint jars. I dumped 1/2 gallon of sanitized water on cake and mixed. Poured off into the (4) 1/2 gallon jars. Let sit ~30 minutes to separate. Then I decanted into the 4 pint jars. Next I decanted the remainder into a 1/2 gallon jar. Fairly simple.

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Aren't you worried that your yeast from an IIPA would be stressed out, especially if you are going to use this on a barleywine?

Hadn't really thought about it. I was hoping that they would be in good shape since I pitched onto such a large cake.

FYI, the title of this post made me LOL like a school child...guess I never completely grew up...

If you washed, then your non-yeast % should be low. I'd go with about 2b/ml concentration. You may want some nutrient.

thirstyutahn said:

I've heard jamil say the default rate for yeast slurry on mrmalty is really fairly accurate...especially looking at what you have there.

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Well I would assume he would say that, considering MrMalty's is based off his own work. YeastCalc too.

Yeah but at the same time he doesnt benefit from you using it. A lot of people switch the bars all the way to thick yeast and 0 non yeast and it would be a mistake. They think well I rinsed it and it looks really solid and then end up underpitching by a good amount.

thirstyutahn said:

Yeah but at the same time he doesnt benefit from you using it. A lot of people switch the bars all the way to thick yeast and 0 non yeast and it would be a mistake. They think well I rinsed it and it looks really solid and then end up underpitching by a good amount.

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That's true. I end up looking at the yeast and how gritty it is, plus take into account what beer it came from. Light beer w/o much hops? Probably less non-yeast %. Dark, hoppy beer w/dry hops? A lot of non-yeast. Thick slurry if it's been settling for a week or more, if it was a cake.

Simple answer? As much as will fit after your ball(s) are in it. Sorry. Childish but couldn't resist.

tre9er said:

That's true. I end up looking at the yeast and how gritty it is, plus take into account what beer it came from. Light beer w/o much hops? Probably less non-yeast %. Dark, hoppy beer w/dry hops? A lot of non-yeast. Thick slurry if it's been settling for a week or more, if it was a cake.

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Don't forget, non-yeast % also includes liquid (wort) between the yeast cells, so it's really asking about compaction as well.

No way do you have 18 billion cells/ml...it's impossible!

1-2 billion cells per ml is what most sources are saying.

I use 1 billion/ml so I find that in 1 cup of slurry I have around 230 billion cells which is more than enough for a 5 gallon batch of medium gravity beers without a starter. I use a starter if the yeast is over 1 week old.

thadius856 said:

Don't forget, non-yeast % also includes liquid (wort) between the yeast cells, so it's really asking about compaction as well.

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Well, I take that as thickness of slurry, actually, or concentration of yeast in what I'm calling the slurry (the "solids" at the bottom). If I've just had it sitting a few days I know it's not very compact. After a few weeks or more in the fridge it tends to compact down nicely and I call that somewhere in the 3/4 or 2/3 "thick slurry", so around 3b cells/ml.

The non-yeast % to me is trub and hops, which again, based on what beer I harvested from, were there dry hops, how much grit is there in the slurry, what color is the slurry, etc. I try to come up with that. I think that I get close enough to what's "actual".