can cider be made without yeast using whole apples with skin left on?

I read about someone using whole apples cored I imagine mashing them up and putting them in the keg to ferment. Is this really possible? Cheers from DownUnder!

The short answer is: yes it is possible, there are wild yeasts on the skins.

However, it is pretty difficult to produce any kind of predictable results without some considerable experience. Beginners should start with a simple juice recipe, like Ed's Apfelwein.

Yes possible. I'd imagine the apples were pressed with skins and seeds whole. I fermented a batch of cider myself that way but threw in some potassium metabisulphite to suppress the native bugs and threw in some lavlin K1116 yeast along with some raw honey. I ended up with quite a nice cyser.

I think you would get unpredictable results with the wild yeast. Might be very good or very bad.

Now I'm not positive...but I thought leaving the seeds and or stems of apples could be poisonous.

There's cyanide in small amounts in the seeds

nukinfuts29 said:

There's cyanide in small amounts in the seeds

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Only if you are grinding them up. A cider press wouldn't break the seeds open.

Sure you can. I know all these people are saying that it is unpredictable, and yes it is, but what you CAN do that won't be unpredictable would be using the skins of apples and starting a sort of Wild Yeast Farm Test.. thing, and have many very small batches of wild yeast cider, and picking out the best strains to use over and over again in your batches. Just an idea though. I'm sure somebody already thought of it lol.

dethip said:

I read about someone using whole apples cored I imagine mashing them up and putting them in the keg to ferment. Is this really possible? Cheers from DownUnder!

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That sounds like compote.

My first wild yeast fermentation is doing fine. (Using fresh pressed juice )

I tried taking some crab apples left on the tree with a good quantity of white yeasty powder and starting a couple yeast cultures. 1 Culture was about a half dozen crab apples in a clean glass with sugar water and nutrient. The other was a half dozen crab apples in a clean glass with a nice non-fungicidal juice that I'd used for simple cider, and nutrient. I stored both at around 64-65 degrees w/ aluminum foil over the top.Both produced massive mold colonies (MASSIVE) after several weeks (3-4 or so). I ended up dumping them both.

I know that's how traditional cider was made (yeast on the skins), but I didn't have any luck. I'd really like to try native yeasts but my experiences so far have been less than inspiring.

Thanks for the feedback it seems to b what everyone else is saying!

I made some really good wild yeast fermented cider this year. I didn't rely on the yeast on the skins though--just about anything can end up on an apple skin. The yeast you want are inside core of the apple.
I cleaned my whole apples in a mild sulfite wash (about a tsp in 6 gallon of wash water)for maybe a half-hour, then mashed the apples and pressed. Added an eighth-tsp of sulfite to the cider. Then seal it up in a vented polyethylene bucket and keep it at about 60 degrees F.
Make sure the pH of the cider is 3.5 or lower. This is what protects the cider while it waits for the right yeast to build.

If you don't want to risk five gallons of cider to this, try creating a half-gallon batch. If you like the results-pitch the yeast cake into a larger batch.

Inside the core, you say... Interesting...

You ever wonder why some years of old wines are better than others?? You know how someone my say "the 47 is better than the 46"?? There are many things that cause this including the quality of the fruit that year, BUT one of the biggest difference is the wild yeast that happened to make the wine that year. Each year the wild yeast was often a little different. Some were way better than others, and because of that science was used to cultivate yeasts from some of the best years and locations and that is now what we have to pitch in our brews. With that said why would you risk using wild yeast that may or may not produce a quality beverage when you can pitch a high quality yeast for about $.75 that will result in a quality produce every time. I would be willing to bet that a quality "wild yeast" cider would be indistinguishable from a "modern" yeast cider.

Daze said:

With that said why would you risk using wild yeast that may or may not produce a quality beverage when you can pitch a high quality yeast for about $.75 that will result in a quality produce every time. I would be willing to bet that a quality "wild yeast" cider would be indistinguishable from a "modern" yeast cider.

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A good wild yeast produces a completely different product from commercial yeast in the same way a champagne yeast and a lager yeast will be different. Additionally, I'm only aware of a single yeast strain specifically for cider (notty) everything else was developed to be better suited for a different beverage entirely, giving cider makers a disadvantage from the get go. We're constantly working to keep everything in balance by cold crashing, back sweetening etc to make up for it.

Has anyone tried fermenting on the skins like you would with wine grapes? I am thinking about mashing my apples, letting them sit in a fermenting bucket and then pressing them after 5 days of primary fermentation on the pomace. Has this worked for anyone?

I was looking to update this thread if anyone has tried this lately.

oulous said:

Has anyone tried fermenting on the skins like you would with wine grapes? I am thinking about mashing my apples, letting them sit in a fermenting bucket and then pressing them after 5 days of primary fermentation on the pomace. Has this worked for anyone?

I was looking to update this thread if anyone has tried this lately.

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If you do that you run the risk of something other than the yeast going to work and ruining the entire batch. Not saying there is not just as good of a chance or even better that it will work with no problems. Just saying that is the risk you take. I would recommend only using a few apples and creating a starter that way after your primary fermenting you will know if the yeast have taken hold or if the batch has gone bad. If the culture is live and well use it to start the rest of your cider. if it has gone bad throw it away and try again. By doing it this way if it fails you are only out a few apples not an entire batch. just m2¢

Ive read about making wild yeast starters using whole unwashed apples then harvesting and washing the yeast before starting a batch. Search on-line.

I just bottled a gallon of wild cider from apples that were quickly washed in water. With 2 cups of sugar added, it tasted pretty weird and sour at 6 weeks, went still at 10 weeks, and yesterday at 11 weeks I bottled it, and other than being very wild it flavor, it was very *good*.

--SiletzSpey