How to verify the SG potential of grain

I think I may have some subpar pilsen malt and I'm looking to verify this by mashing 1# of this pils for 60 minutes.

When I plug this into BeerSmith it wants me to sparge with 1 qt. of water then actually boil down to 1 gallon to hit an OG of 1.027. I'm not going to do a boil for this little experiment, so the preboil gravity estimate of 1.025 seems like a reasonable goal to me.

Am I doing this even remotely correctly? Any recommendations?

What is your standard brewhouse efficiency? What % are you assuming for this test?

Evan! said:

What is your standard brewhouse efficiency? What % are you assuming for this test?

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75% is my standard and is being assumed in this experiment.

how much would you normally loose to evaporation?

If you really want to see what the potential is, don't sparge at all. Take your gravity reading right from the first runnings and use your strike volume as the preboil volume or just do the math on paper. You should get close to 100%. It will say nothing about your ability to sparge effectively but then again, that wasn't your intent.

Donasay said:

how much would you normally loose to evaporation?

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Beersmith wants me to sparge with .25 gallons then boil for 60 min to get to 1 gallon.

Bobby_M said:

If you really want to see what the potential is, don't sparge at all. Take your gravity reading right from the first runnings and use your strike volume as the preboil volume or just do the math on paper. You should get close to 100%. It will say nothing about your ability to sparge effectively but then again, that wasn't your intent.

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This sound about right?


Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 1.00 gal
Boil Size: 1.11 gal
Estimated OG: 1.027 SG
Estimated Color: 2.4 SRM
Estimated IBU: 0.0 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
1.00 lb Pilsner (Briess) (2.0 SRM) Grain 100.00 %

Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, No Mash Out
Total Grain Weight: 1.00 lb
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Medium Body, No Mash Out
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
40 min Step Add 1.00 gal of water at 158.8 F 155.0 F


I guess I'm too thick headed to understand why BeerSmith says that this wort should be 1.027, then the potential yield for the malt is 1.036.

ohiobrewtus said:

I guess I'm too thick headed to understand why BeerSmith says that this wort should be 1.027, then the potential yield for the malt is 1.036.

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What percentage of 36 is 27?

There's your answer.

"potential yield" is just that: potential. In other words, if you were able to somehow get 100% efficiency, then your OG would be 1.036. That's the total possible yield. At 75%, you'd get 1027.

<shakes head and smacks forehead> DOH!

Screw beersmith...

Mash 1lb with 1 gallon of water for 60 minutes. Pull a sample out and measure. Whatever gravity you get is the 100% PPG (in theory).

ohiobrewtus said:

<shakes head and smacks forehead> DOH!

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+1 !
Now this is a key I have been looking for, first runnings should be the a damm- good indication of mash extraction as long as you wait long enough for diffusion to work if you mash out.
- HOMER - DOH..... I got to brew more and taste less at very select times, or at least if I'm dealing with math.

I conducted my experiment tonight. 1# of the pils in question was mashed in 1 gallon of water at 155 for 60 minutes. I then chilled the wort in an icebath until it was 60F so I did not have to make any hydrometer adjustments. The potential gravity of this malt (it's from Briess) is 1.036. Here is my result:



1.016. Houston, we have a problem. No wonder I missed my OG by so much on my Belgian Dark Strong Ale! I'm about to go ballistic on my vendor... can anyone convince me that I should not do so?

Bobby_M said:

Screw beersmith...

Mash 1lb with 1 gallon of water for 60 minutes. Pull a sample out and measure. Whatever gravity you get is the 100% PPG (in theory).

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At what temperature?

If you want a description of 200 analytical methods you can buy the ASBC Methods of Analysis, 2008 Edition CD-Rom published by the American Society of Brewing Chemists for only $650.

ohiobrewtus said:

I conducted my experiment tonight. 1# of the pils in question was mashed in 1 gallon of water at 155 for 60 minutes. I then chilled the wort in an icebath until it was 60F so I did not have to make any hydrometer adjustments. The potential gravity of this malt (it's from Briess) is 1.036. I'm about to go ballistic on my vendor... can anyone convince me that I should not do so?

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how do you know it's potential is 1.036? do you have the paperwork from the batch that gives the laboratory numbers?

BeerSmith has it as 1.036. I went to their website and found this, although I'm not quite sure how it translates.

http://www.brewingwithbriess.com/Assets/PDFs/Briess_PIS_Pilsen_Malt_WK.pdf

My mistake. I wasn't thinking and said one gallon instead of one quart. 4qts/lb is way too loose (diluted) for the enzymes to convert. Try it again with 1 quart and divide your SG reading by 4 to get the PPG.

Bobby_M said:

My mistake. I wasn't thinking and said one gallon instead of one quart. 4qts/lb is way too loose (diluted) for the enzymes to convert. Try it again with 1 quart and divide your SG reading by 4 to get the PPG.

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1# of pils mashed with 1 qt. of water at 155 for 60 minutes yielded a wort with an OG of 1.061 at 60F. THis, unfortunatley is right in line with the experiment I did with 1 full gallon of water. That came out to 1.016. This yields 1.015. I believe that I have confirmed that the problem is with the grain.