Yeast Concerns

Because of a faulty thermometer reading I pitched the yeast >90 degrees. Any advice?

Not much to do about it now. If it's not cooled down already, get it cooled down.

What did you pitch?

I guess if you've gotten it below 75*F, or to your intended pitching temp, by now it probably stands a good chance of going.

Cool in a water bath, wait a few days and check it, repitch if needed?

That's what I'd try

thanks, it was white labs home brew CA ale yeast. didn't think to put it back in a water bath. its in the low 80's now, should I still put it in a water bath? also, do you mean if there is no signs of fermentation in a couple of days re-pitch?

Smokedaddy said:

thanks, it was white labs home brew CA ale yeast. didn't think to put it back in a water bath. its in the low 80's now, should I still put it in a water bath? also, do you mean if there is no signs of fermentation in a couple of days re-pitch?

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yeah, it might have survived and be working away.

Give it a few days, like 2-3 and take a gravity reading if you don't see other signs of fermentation. If the gravity hasn't changed from the OG, repitch.

Again, this is just what I would do in this situation, it doesn't mean it's the RIGHT thing to do.

Good luck, interested to see what happens.

Yeast love temperatures around 90F. It's quite unlikely that your pitch population was damaged at all, but the unrestrained growth may or may not have produced some hot alcohols or other undesirable metabolic byproducts.

According to White and Zainasheff in the Yeast book rapid cooling has adverse affects on the yeasts ablity to grow and ferment.

Yeast pitched into liquids as hot as 105 will survive, but as MalFet pointed out, you get a lot of undesirable byproducts. Lager yeast are more high temp sensetive btw.

I'm of the 'lets see what happens' school. So I'd personally let it go, and given W&Z's statement, let abience take it down in temps.

First off, thanks for everyones comments. Everything seems to be OK, it's fermenting fine. I'm a little concerned about "undesirable byproducts" What would they be? And does the fact that its fermenting fine mean I might not get them?

hot alcohol flavors and some other by products, but most of them should be cleaned up by the yeast if you give it enough time in the primary. ~3-4 weeks.

Smokedaddy said:

First off, thanks for everyones comments. Everything seems to be OK, it's fermenting fine. I'm a little concerned about "undesirable byproducts" What would they be? And does the fact that its fermenting fine mean I might not get them?

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It's unpredictable, for better and worse. Fermentation temperature control is of course pretty much essential, but I've had majorly botched batches that were decent and minorly botched batches that bordered on undrinkable. Metabolic byproducts include hot alcohols, esters, phenols etc. You always have them to some degree, but they tend to be more prominent in hot fermentations. They tend not to decompose, either by yeast action or chemical process, but they may or may not be dominating, depending on style and luck.

Thanks for the advice, I understand that leaving it in the primary longer and some of undesirable byproducts will be taken care of during conditioning. the recipe Im doing calls for flavoring hops added during secondary fermentation. Do you think I would get a better product if I left it in the primary and forgot about moving it to secondary?

Thanks for the advice, I understand that leaving it in the primary longer and some of undesirable byproducts will be taken care of during conditioning. the recipe Im doing calls for flavoring hops added during secondary fermentation. Do you think I would get a better product if I left it in the primary and forgot about moving it to secondary?

Smokedaddy said:

Thanks for the advice, I understand that leaving it in the primary longer and some of undesirable byproducts will be taken care of during conditioning. the recipe Im doing calls for flavoring hops added during secondary fermentation. Do you think I would get a better product if I left it in the primary and forgot about moving it to secondary?

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This is a topic of religious wars around here. The upsides of leaving it is that you have one less transfer to make (with all attendant oxidation and contamination risks). Others feel it is good to get it off the cake, particularly when dry hopping. You can get fine results either way, and which method you prefer is ultimately between you and your Beer-Jesus.

Beer Jesus, love it!

D0ug said:

hot alcohol flavors and some other by products, but most of them should be cleaned up by the yeast if you give it enough time in the primary. ~3-4 weeks.

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In my experience, that's not so. Fusels and other by-products do not get better with time, nor do esters or phenols. Diacetyl does often get "cleaned up" by yeast activity, but not those other rather foul flavors.

Not much you can do about it now, but I'd never let an ale ferment at over about 70 degrees.

I guess I'm just confused.

I always thought the hot alcohol flavors in young high gravity brews were related to fusel alcohols. I know when I let the hot tasting drinks go for awhile those flavors seem to fade. And I had a wheat that I did with WB-06 that was real Banana-y after 3 weeks, but was much better after 6 or 7 weeks.

Of course, you certainly hit the nail on the head with that mead I screwed up.

Dunno, I still have a lot to learn.

D0ug said:

I guess I'm just confused.

I always thought the hot alcohol flavors in young high gravity brews were related to fusel alcohols. I know when I let the hot tasting drinks go for awhile those flavors seem to fade. And I had a wheat that I did with WB-06 that was real Banana-y after 3 weeks, but was much better after 6 or 7 weeks.

Of course, you certainly hit the nail on the head with that mead I screwed up.

Dunno, I still have a lot to learn.

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Fusel alcohols are the "hangover" hot alcohols. Sometimes a wine or mead (or high gravity beer) is "hot" just because it's over 13% ABV! In that case, sure, aging will mellow that. That's why my wines are almost always best at 2 years old or longer, or at least the higher ABV ones.

But fusels don't age out. They taste solventy and hot. They come from a too-warm fermentation, usually, but not always.

WB06 is an ester producer, but maybe carbonation and time balanced it.

This is a bit off topic since it's about off flavors as a whole, but here's a decent breakdown of off flavors and the causes:

http://www.kroc.org/Links/TroubleshootingGuide.htm

Fusels and esters will be the most likely 'off flavors' as previously stated. Fusels are represented in the guide under 'alcoholic' since some fusel oils are desireable. The guide also talks about the cause (high fermentation temps) and how to reduce the flavor (ferment cooler). Esters are represented in the 'fruity-estery' category. Same symptoms and causes there.

Yooper said:

In my experience, that's not so. Fusels and other by-products do not get better with time, nor do esters or phenols. Diacetyl does often get "cleaned up" by yeast activity, but not those other rather foul flavors.

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+1

Yooper said:

Not much you can do about it now, but I'd never let an ale ferment at over about 70 degrees.

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Unless it is style appropriate or you are looking for a specific flavor profile.

Just checking in and looking for more advice. Fermentation on the double IPA(OG 1.071) slowed down about day 3. I moved to a secondary fermentor (1.041) and it has been fermenting steadily ever since and shows no signs of slowing down. It's day 6 and slowly, steadily bubbling. It's been around 70 degrees after the temp stabilized. Everything I've read indicates it should be slowing down. Could this be an indication of the undesirable byproducts developing or be related to pitching the yeast too hot?

Smokedaddy said:

Just checking in and looking for more advice. Fermentation on the double IPA(OG 1.071) slowed down about day 3. I moved to a secondary fermentor (1.041) and it has been fermenting steadily ever since and shows no signs of slowing down. It's day 6 and slowly, steadily bubbling. It's been around 70 degrees after the temp stabilized. Everything I've read indicates it should be slowing down. Could this be an indication of the undesirable byproducts developing or be related to pitching the yeast too hot?

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if the gravity is at 1.041 i would have left it in the primary with all of the other yeast that it needs to finish out.