Aerating Wort

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philjohnwilliams

philjohnwilliams

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Hi everybody. This is my first post here and I hope this isn't too stupid a question. I have been having trouble with my fermentation that I have been told is probably due to under aerated wort. I have been using the plug the carbouy and shake method, but have heard that this isn't the most effective method. Somebody at my local brew store suggested using an aquarium air pump and diffuser stone to aerate my wort. I was wondering if this works, has (or does) anybody do this, and how long should I aerate using this method? Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.

-philjohnwilliams
 
it works but you need an inline air filter and it takes about 30 min. I recommend a oxygen bottle ($10 at hardware store). I use a propane valve b/c it was free and a sterile aquarium air-stone with fishtank tubing...the whole thing costs 20 bucks and each tank will oxygenate 25-30 batches.

I do (2) 30 second bursts of O2...so 1 minute total. Search the threads as there is a lot of info in past threads...
 
That just sounds like a really complicated way of introducing more chances for infection. What is this trouble you've had with fermentation? What kind of yeast are you using? What kind of OGs have you been working with? What temperature are you pitching at?
 
itsme6582 said:
That just sounds like a really complicated way of introducing more chances for infection. What is this trouble you've had with fermentation? What kind of yeast are you using? What kind of OGs have you been working with? What temperature are you pitching at?
Click to expand...

Oxygenating wort is actually a process done by nearly every AG brewer and many partial mash/extract as well. O2 tanks are pure so as long as you sterilize the tubing and stone you should be good...

If you are doing full boils, this is very likely your problem as a 60 minute boil will remove all of the o2 from the wort...If you are filling your fermenter 1/2 way with unboiled water, there should be enough o2 to get the job done...
 
I agree with itsme on this.....I only use the pouring my work into primary and the giant plastic stirring stick with holes that came with the kit to kick it up again once in primary. I then pitch the yeast as it's spinning around the bucket, top and air lock and with in 5 to 6 hours or so It's bubbling then around 12 to 14 it's taking off.
 
The trouble i have been having is that the fermentation goes so far and then it sticks. I have used dry yeast in the past, but for the last two batches i have used Wyeast smack packs (I don't recall the specific strain). My OGs are usually in the 1.040 - 1.050 range, and the fermentation seems to crap out in the 1.025 area. I usually pitch at 25c

-philjohnwilliams
 
Fermentation Temp? I had one batch that seem to stick but warmed it up a few degrees and bam she was kicking down to 1.15ish and I'm good with that on an Extract I think.
 
I keep my frementation between 19-21c. On a friends suggestion I tried bumping the temp up a few degrees, but that didn't seem to help.

-philjohnwilliams
 
Are we into AG or Extract or in between? I only have experience with extract & inbetween. So if it's AG I'm might not be much help as I have only done the research on that side of the house...still working on getting euipment before my first AG deal.

If it's on extract side I'm stumped as to the issue? What dry yeast did you use? What is the pitching temp of the wort?

Ton's of questions I guess so that everyone on here can nail down your process and I'm sure if I can't help someone will see what they need to tell you the issue.
 
Extract brewing with some use of specialty grains (no more than 1# per recipe) I am doing a roughly half wort boil, starting with about 2 1/2 gallond and boiling down to 2 gallons. I was using Coopers dry ale yeast, which for the longest time was all i could find in my area. Dry yeast was rehydrated for 30 minutes prior to pitching. Yeast was pitched around 24c and fermentation was done in the 19-21c range.

-philjohnwilliams
 
Have you calibrated your hydrometer? It is not uncommon for them to be a few points off, so perhaps you don't even have an issue (other than a bad hydrometer).
If you are doing extract brews, some extracts ferment lower than others. In particular, using Laaglander extract results in a very high FG.
If you are doing all grain, the fermentability of the wort depends on the mash temperature, mash thickness, mash duration, and grains used.
Can you post a recipe that you have used, listing the grains and/or extracts, and the variety of yeast, and fermentation temperature (and mash temperature and thickness if doing all grain).
As for aeration of the wort, I believe that this if very necessary for liquid yeasts, but not so much for dry. I use an O2 bottle which provides enough oxygen in about 90 seconds. See http://maltosefalcons.com/tech/yeast-propagation-and-maintenance-principles-and-practices for details of how to aerate and build up an adequate supply of yeast for pitching.

-a.
 
I've never used coopers but if it wasn't okay to do the job, there'd be a post on it here somewhere.....

Hmmmmmm. I normally do a extract with specialty grains and I used one liquid (WL) and since I have used same brand of dry yeast (nottingham). that stuff takes off.

Shouldn't matter much on the yeast so I read these days we got better batches than in past....

I'm not that great with c degree stuff but it appears to me the parts I know of your process seem okay. I have never had to rehydrate the dry stuff I have used yet. I just sprinkle on top while wort is spinning from a good stirr and she is good to go....

I do partial boils as well, the kits or recipe calls for 2 gallon or so but I have been doing 4 gallons since I read more the better... I should just move to doing 5 so my top off is just a little....(I'm considering that) I'm not sure on the half biol whether it could be part of issue as I said most kits and recipes I read say that.....

I hope somone else on here picks this up and can help more than I.

I'd only ask that you go thru a complete brew day from top to bottom and talk about any change points in fermentation time so that someone on here can help
 
goose1873 said:
it works but you need an inline air filter and it takes about 30 min. I recommend a oxygen bottle ($10 at hardware store). I use a propane valve b/c it was free and a sterile aquarium air-stone with fishtank tubing...the whole thing costs 20 bucks and each tank will oxygenate 25-30 batches.

I do (2) 30 second bursts of O2...so 1 minute total. Search the threads as there is a lot of info in past threads...
Click to expand...

I second this one. I have the same setup that I bought at a homebrew supply. It came with a disposable oxygen tank regulator, sterile inline filter, a .5 micron stainless steel oxygenation stone and tubing. Just needed to buy a disposable oxygen tank at my local hardware store.

I just sanitize it in my bucket of Star-San before using it. Place it in my fermenter full of cooled wort, 60 seconds and I'm done.

Do you think though, that you are pitching enough yeast cells??
 
Wyeast has done some testing on this subject. Thier results seem to suggest that the best way to aerate wort is through an oxygen pump and stone. But the interesting thing was that the second best way was simply to shake and slosh the wort for about a minute. Granted labor intensive, but effective.
 
BigB said:
Wyeast has done some testing on this subject. Thier results seem to suggest that the best way to aerate wort is through an oxygen pump and stone. But the interesting thing was that the second best way was simply to shake and slosh the wort for about a minute. Granted labor intensive, but effective.
Click to expand...

I second the sloshing :rockin:
 
The problem is clear. Your thermometer is wrong. You need to measure in degrees Fahrenheit for beer to work.

Goose: I think it's safe to say that all home brewers aerate their wort. Some more effectively than others. I bet many don't even know they're doing it but it's happening at least to a certain extent. At the same time, the assumption that nearly all AG brewers are using an air pump or O2 tank is a little far fetched. Logic would say the majority of the brewers here are using the simplest of setups with a minimum of equipment. As simple as an air pump would be, it's well beyond the scope of the majority here. That would be like assuming that since there are so many posts with extravagant brew sculptures that nearly all brewers are using these rigs.

From an expert...
"Apparent Prematurely Stuck Fermentation - More often than not you're worrying. Many malt extracts are designed and produced to have a dextrin (unfermentable) content. This gives body to the beer. Some very fine all-malt extract beers will begin fermentation at 1.038 and finish as high as 1.013. Other high-gravity recipes will begin at 1.055 and be ready to bottle at 1.028. Aeration of the wort and choice of yeasts will make some difference, but usually minimal. Roll with the punches and bottle when fermentation has stopped or is negligible." - Papazian; The Complete Joy of Home Brewing, 3rd Edition; pg 359
 
itsme6582 said:
The problem is clear. Your thermometer is wrong. You need to measure in degrees Fahrenheit for beer to work.

Goose: I think it's safe to say that all home brewers aerate their wort. Some more effectively than others. I bet many don't even know they're doing it but it's happening at least to a certain extent. At the same time, the assumption that nearly all AG brewers are using an air pump or O2 tank is a little far fetched. Logic would say the majority of the brewers here are using the simplest of setups with a minimum of equipment. As simple as an air pump would be, it's well beyond the scope of the majority here. That would be like assuming that since there are so many posts with extravagant brew sculptures that nearly all brewers are using these rigs.

From an expert...
"Apparent Prematurely Stuck Fermentation - More often than not you're worrying. Many malt extracts are designed and produced to have a dextrin (unfermentable) content. This gives body to the beer. Some very fine all-malt extract beers will begin fermentation at 1.038 and finish as high as 1.013. Other high-gravity recipes will begin at 1.055 and be ready to bottle at 1.028. Aeration of the wort and choice of yeasts will make some difference, but usually minimal. Roll with the punches and bottle when fermentation has stopped or is negligible." - Papazian; The Complete Joy of Home Brewing, 3rd Edition; pg 359
Click to expand...

:rockin: Nice book reference........ I have How to Brew 3rd edition....I guess I should consult Mr. Palmer this subject. I'll do so tomorrow and post what I find out.....
 
Good, good. More expert opinions will help. Hopefully they won't be as contradictory as the opinions on this site can be sometimes.
 
I never aerate... and I have crazy fermentations... I mostly use dry yeast (S-04 or US-05) and handle gravities up to 1.060
 
itsme6582 said:
Good, good. More expert opinions will help. Hopefully they won't be as contradictory as the opinions on this site can be sometimes.
Click to expand...

1 + I agree but I'd rather have these contradictory opinions than just some basic research because most speak from experience....:rockin:
 
400d said:
I never aerate... and I have crazy fermentations... I mostly use dry yeast (S-04 or US-05) and handle gravities up to 1.060
Click to expand...

Can they support high gravities? I use dry and I did my biggest beer todate on Saturday Night.....1.85ish so I at recommendation from LHBS pitched two packs Dry Nottingham...
 
itsme6582 said:
The problem is clear. Your thermometer is wrong. You need to measure in degrees Fahrenheit for beer to work.

Goose: I think it's safe to say that all home brewers aerate their wort. Some more effectively than others. I bet many don't even know they're doing it but it's happening at least to a certain extent. At the same time, the assumption that nearly all AG brewers are using an air pump or O2 tank is a little far fetched. Logic would say the majority of the brewers here are using the simplest of setups with a minimum of equipment. As simple as an air pump would be, it's well beyond the scope of the majority here. That would be like assuming that since there are so many posts with extravagant brew sculptures that nearly all brewers are using these rigs.

From an expert...
"Apparent Prematurely Stuck Fermentation - More often than not you're worrying. Many malt extracts are designed and produced to have a dextrin (unfermentable) content. This gives body to the beer. Some very fine all-malt extract beers will begin fermentation at 1.038 and finish as high as 1.013. Other high-gravity recipes will begin at 1.055 and be ready to bottle at 1.028. Aeration of the wort and choice of yeasts will make some difference, but usually minimal. Roll with the punches and bottle when fermentation has stopped or is negligible." - Papazian; The Complete Joy of Home Brewing, 3rd Edition; pg 359
Click to expand...

OK so I understand most don't use forced aeration but most are not doing AG either. Boiling all of the wort for 60 min+ removes ALL oxygen and I bet if we took a poll of All grain (or full boil) brewers, the majority (aka - most) will say that they aerate via air pump or O2...

this is not as big of an issue without full boils, but if you re-read my post I said majority of "all-grain" brewers...

On that note, I do agree most home-brewers just use the shake like hell method...if that :)

I'm done with this post as there is no need to keep repeating the same thing...and it doesn't matter and has nothing to do with the OP anymore...

If you do full boils, don't aerate, and never have a long lag time till fermentation begins...Kudos to you!...you've managed to overcome simple physics :mug:
 
I suggest using a Mix-Stir or paint stirrer on a drill to aerate your wort in your case. Just stir it up until you have a nice frothy head.

Also, keep in mind that you need to use the freshest, highest quality DME/LME you can get your mitts on. If you're not getting down to your expected FG, it may be an issue with the fermentability of your Extracts, or even that you're not pitching enough yeast.
 
I've been using an aquarium pump with a cheap, disposable airstone that I soak in star-san for about 40 minutes and flush with said star-san before use. I do not use an in-line filter , but I DO soak the air pump and it's filter in star-san before use.

Total cost for my rig: $25 Disposable airstones are about 70 cents each (or less)

My fermentation has been massive since I started using it, and no issues with infections. Oh, and I just switched to AG from using extracts.
 
goose1873 said:
it works but you need an inline air filter and it takes about 30 min. I recommend a oxygen bottle ($10 at hardware store). I use a propane valve b/c it was free and a sterile aquarium air-stone with fishtank tubing...the whole thing costs 20 bucks and each tank will oxygenate 25-30 batches.

I do (2) 30 second bursts of O2...so 1 minute total. Search the threads as there is a lot of info in past threads...
Click to expand...

how do you use a propane valve? Propane tank threads are right hand and O2 tanks are left hand thread.

OP you don't need anything special to aerate the wort the shake method works and has been used by thousands of homebrewers. If you are using dry yeast like Notty Danstar says areation is no needed since you are pitching the proper amount of yeast. If you are using liquid you need to make a starter.
 
muthafuggle said:
I've been using an aquarium pump with a cheap, disposable airstone that I soak in star-san for about 40 minutes and flush with said star-san before use. I do not use an in-line filter , but I DO soak the air pump and it's filter in star-san before use.

Total cost for my rig: $25 Disposable airstones are about 70 cents each (or less)

My fermentation has been massive since I started using it, and no issues with infections. Oh, and I just switched to AG from using extracts.
Click to expand...

i do the same, except i use a sterile inline air filter. was only like 5 bucks. i've used the same 'disposable' stone for the past 5 or 6 brews without any detrimental effects, so I think i'll keep on using it until it looks like it's getting wear and tear. works great every time. i only run mine for 15 minutes though after listening to the 'brew strong' on aeration. seems like more than 15 could potentially affect the head retention and 15 seems like plenty to me with the amount of foam that gets produced and i don't like cleaning it off the carboy.
 
For the last couple brews, I have done a slightly modified shake method.

I simply shut down the kettle draining after about a gallon to 1.5 gallons has drained into the carboy. Then I shake the crap out of the sucker! Judging by the 6 inches or so of foam on top, I can say that gallon has all kinds of air in it. Then I continue draining as normal. Doing it this way, it is much easier to get a good shake on the wort with less risk of dropping or breaking something.

The fermentations have always taken off very quickly.
 
As mentioned, no need to aerate with dry yeast. The yeast mfr has already jam-packed it full of all the nutrients it needs for a full fermentation. A stone with an air pump is about the same as shaking the carboy but takes longer and adds risk of contamination. A stone with pure O2 gives those other two methods a swift kitn.

The fermentations have always taken off very quickly.
Click to expand...
If anything, more dissolved O2 in wort extends the lag time because the yeast are still busy taking in the O2.

I often use a funnel with strainer on the carboy. You practically cannot get the wort into the carboy this way without aerating it very well. I do that and don't even shake it and the fermentations are fine. If I do a whirlpool and use a ball valve then I just let the tube barely protrude the neck of the carboy and let the wort drop the full height of the carboy (and hitting the bottom, i.e. not hitting the sidewall first). Again, almost impossible to NOT get it aerated that way.

Cold liquid can hold more O2 than warm so, to a point, the cooler the better.
 
springer said:
how do you use a propane valve? Propane tank threads are right hand and O2 tanks are left hand thread.

OP you don't need anything special to aerate the wort the shake method works and has been used by thousands of homebrewers. If you are using dry yeast like Notty Danstar says areation is no needed since you are pitching the proper amount of yeast. If you are using liquid you need to make a starter.
Click to expand...

I actually thought that until i bought a red O2 tank and the threads are the same...any propane nozzle will fit on an o2 tanks.
 
pump $10

o2 tank $10

besides the valve which is <10 bucks or free if you own a propane tank everything else is the same...and you should actually have an in-line air filter for the pump. This makes the cost very similar (w/in 5 bucks) if you DIY.

I just like 1 minute vs. 30 and the tank lasts 20-30 batches, so additional tanks will eventually cost you another 10 bucks a pop.

both work, i just wanted to say my O2 system is under 20 bucks and therefore very affordable...
 
oh, and just toss a couple stainless steel washers on the hose before connecting the air-stone and it will keep it in on the bottom..

I actually found a 30" ss tube for $4.50 at the hardware store and now just thread the airhose through it and connect the air stone on the other side. just a way of making a cheap wand but the washers work very well and are the least expensive way.
 
400d said:
I never aerate... and I have crazy fermentations... I mostly use dry yeast (S-04 or US-05) and handle gravities up to 1.060
Click to expand...

That's because dry yeast does NOT require oxygen, as liquid yeast does. It's one of the biggest myths in homebrewing.

"No, there is no need to aerate the wort but it does not harm the yeast either. During its aerobic production, dry yeast accumulates sufficient amounts of unsaturated fatty acids and sterols to produce enough biomass in the first stage of fermentation. The only reason to aerate the wort when using wet yeast is to provide the yeast with oxygen so that it can produce sterols and unsaturated fatty acids which are important parts of the cell membrane and therefore essential for biomass production.


It doesn't hurt, but is absolutely unnecessary.
 
There is another post around hear that talks about using an in-line pipe (I use a broken bottling wand) with holes melted in it placed in your siphone hose. The venturi effect along with splashing always gives me 3 inches of foam. I don't have any issues with my AG fermentations
 
At the Soggy Bottom Brewery we just whip the wort into a pre-fermentation frenzy in the boil keggle while at the same time whirlpooling the hops and break material to the center of the pot. During the cool down phase I use our paint paddle (vertical paddle type, not screw kind) to maintain movement in the wort over the chiller coils. I use a 1/2 drill that runs slow and easily avoids introducing air to the wort (reason I don't use screw stirrer). When we hit 70 degrees the chiller comes out and the drill goes to full speed. It literally whips the wort up into a frothy mass with a high speed whirlpool at the same time. We then let the keggle sit for 30 minutes while prepping yeast before draining into our two fermentation buckets. We use dry yeast now, but used liquid in the past and have had vigorous fermentations requiring blow-off tubes.

We tried the air pump, sterile filter, SS aeration stone route and it was just a hassle. It took longer, and the damn stone kept clogging up for some reason. At this point we don't see any reason to do more than required to make great beer.

On another note, the weather is almost right for us to get our bottom's soggy again. That is what we do in Texas to stay cool, sit in a tube in a river and watch the bikinis float by. The next challenge is to get the brewery on the river with us...
 
Just get yourself one of these and stick it to the end of your hose when you're racking. It aerates like mad!
phpThumb.php
 
Frank99 said:
http://www.williamsbrewing.com/22_AERATION_WAND_P490C106.cfm

Get this and a $10 aquarium pump at Walmart.

I don't think you need an oxygen tank. It's just another added expense IMO
Click to expand...
Just to reiterate: Using an aquarium pump with a stone is pretty much a waste of time and money. You get the same amount of oxygen in the wort by just shaking the carboy and it doesn't take nearly as long. Pure O2 with a stone gives both other methods a kitn (kick in the...). They've done studies on this.
 

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