GroovePuppy
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Amen. I've been AG'ing for a year now using this method and made some delicious beers.
Easy Stovetop All-Grain Brewing (with pics)
- Thread starter DeathBrewer
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Amen. I've been AG'ing for a year now using this method and made some delicious beers.
OP
OP
DIAICYLF. Forever. 
Azharen
Active Member
@DeathBrew: That's the guy I meant. Been looking JT's Mother of Fermentation Chiller build. I suck at wood working, so I decided to buy a Utility Cabinet; insulate it and run the Temp Control through to the door. I'm thinking I may even be able to get lagering temps if I use water resistant paneling and caulking. I'd still have to test that theory during the summer. I should still be able to do standard fermentation all year round. But that's down the line. CO2 equipment for kegs and wort chiller are my short term projects.
HomelessWook
Well-Known Member
Amen. I've been AG'ing for a year now using this method and made some delicious beers.
just bottled my first brew (all extract) and i am going to my LHBS on Thursday to get ingredients for a pale ale partial - i am going to be using deathbrewers method :rockin:
agenthucky
Well-Known Member
DB, another great thread. Now, pardon me if you've answered it before, but I haven't finished this thread yet, and wanted to ask the question before I forget:
A) Is there a chart or formula for the volume of a certain amount of grain. I noticed you have 11.75 lbs of grain and it took .95 gallons. Is there a way to predict this impact, so better planning on what equipment to use.
B) You mentioned having less headspace helps keep your mash at temp. Is this true for headspace, or volume of mash water? You have just about 5 gallons of space occupied in the 5 gallon kettle. If you had the same 5 gallons in a 7 gallon kettle, would it cool quicker? It seems to me, knowing my limited physics, that it's just the amount of water that is slowing down the cooling, but I am not sure.
agenthucky
Well-Known Member
Also, I noticed your stove is off. When you hit your mash temp, do you turn your burner off, or leave it on Low. When I steep, to keep temp I turn it to a lower setting, if it's off, I loose temp.
OP
OP
Here are some good mash calculators that I use: http://www.rackers.org/calcs.shtml
If you are talking about absorption, then it is MUCH less than with mash tun. General rule is 0.125 gallons per pound of grain, but that drops to less than half that with the bag.
It's true for the volume of the mash and lowering the headspace also helps. Yes, I think it would cool quicker in a 7 gallon, but the amount and time would probably be negligible. It's fine if it drops a few degrees and if you insulate the vessel, it shouldn't drop at all...even with a bit of headspace.
It's about MASS. It matters little whether it's solid or liquid or a mixture thereoff.
Turn the burner off. You don't want your mash temp to get too high. If you're concerned about losing temp, wrap up the mash tun with some towels or blankets (off the burner, of course) but I do not advocate using a burner for temperature adjustment after you have mashed in.
agenthucky
Well-Known Member
In your experience, how much grain have you put in that bag at one time. I am going to try this tomorrow and I have 13.25 lbs of grain. This should take 5.2 gallons in a 5.5 gallon kettle I have. I just am wondering if the bag will hold up. Should I split it in half and do it twice? I do have all day...
agenthucky
Well-Known Member
Well, I did it anyway. 13.35 lbs and it came to the brim of the kettle. Just enough room to stir. Lost a degree or two, and spilt a little, but I reached 73% on my first try, so I'm happy.
Thanks again!
Thanks again!
OP
OP
I don't think I've done that much, but definitely had some small spillovers when I tried to push it. That's why I always recommend less until you get a handle on it and have the room to stir.
Glad it worked out!
I'm currently writing an all-grain tutorial for my roommate. We made his Black Lager tonight, but we didn't hit our numbers perfect and the brew session took longer than expected, so I'm going to do a step-by-step and see if we can nail it down next time. Hoping to use it so he can learn the process in and out...much detail. Coming soon!
Glad it worked out!
I'm currently writing an all-grain tutorial for my roommate. We made his Black Lager tonight, but we didn't hit our numbers perfect and the brew session took longer than expected, so I'm going to do a step-by-step and see if we can nail it down next time. Hoping to use it so he can learn the process in and out...much detail. Coming soon!
agenthucky
Well-Known Member
hey! i got stickied!
May I ask what this is? I read these forums a lot, but haven't posted until this one. I see various people saying it and also different descriptions under peoples name, like you are Lifetime Supporter. Can someone update me on the lingo?
QUOTE]
OP
OP
You see "Sticky"s at the top of the page. They are threads that are noteable enough to be referenced at the top ofthe page.
Lifetime Supporter means that I paid for a lifetime membership. See here:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/payments.php?
Lifetime Supporter means that I paid for a lifetime membership. See here:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/payments.php?
agenthucky
Well-Known Member
never used the strips. you can use iodophor to do a conversion test. me thinks there be a post about that in this thread, but i'm too druck right now to look for it. soryy
DeathBrewer,
I used some Iodophor as well, but I was suprised to see how dark red it is on its own. I've read about the iodine tests and people say that yellow means full conversion, red means partial, and black means too much startch. However, the Iodophor is red to begin with. When I did my test and swirrled it in a sample, it didn't get any darker, which I took as a good sign, but it was still red. I got 73% so I'm not complaining, but just wondering how you do the test.
agenthucky
Well-Known Member
When I was brewing extract recipes only, I was boiling about 3.5-4 gallons, and diluting it at the end. When boiling the 3.5-4 gallons, I would only notice a .5 gallon boil-off for around 60, and .75-.95 gallon for 90 (depending on a vigorous or low boil). When doing this BIAB method, I had to boil the full amount of water, so I estimated 5.5 gallons for 60 minutes. Low and behold when I finished I only had 4.5 gallons of wort. With the additional volume of wort, the more you lose. Next time, since I only have a 5.5 gallon kettle as of now (looking for a 10 gallon cooler) I will make the gravity higher, and dilute with cooled boiled water.
I always start my brew day the night before. Sanitize the carboy, and fill it with boiled water. Leave it outside and let it cool for the next day. This water can be used to dilute the wort, or just for cleaning up, rinsing StarSan or other cleaners.
agenthucky
Well-Known Member
How big of a size did you make (lbs of grain)? How long did it take you? I would LOVE to mill my own!
Was the grain to fine powder? Did it slip through the bag?
agenthucky
Well-Known Member
My method is not intended for doing bigger beers. If I were doing a bigger beer with this method, I would use extract and step it up over time (add extract after fermentation begins.)
I use my cooler for bigger beers
Why do you gradually put the extract in? Why not add it at the Start/End of boil?
agenthucky
Well-Known Member
DeathBrewer, How does it feel to be a celeb around these here forums?
agenthucky
Well-Known Member
I may not be married, but it sure is an obsession. I've come to the point where I brew more than I can drink, and it still isn't enough. I read these forums at work [I am right now] only to go home and play/tweak recipes. I cannot get enough, I listen to podcasts during the day and watch videocasts at night before bed. I cannot get enough. I have been brewing for just under a year and am already thinking about decoctions, and 100 lb bags of grain. If I keep this up I'm going to go crazy.
I second the obsession!
agenthucky
Well-Known Member
I certainly hope not
I'm sure you've made the beer by now, but in Extreme Brewing from Sam Calagione the recipe for the Dogfish Head IBA is in there and its tasty.
agenthucky
Well-Known Member
I was thinking about this when I did my first AG. Mashing at different temperatures results in different characteristics for the beer. Lower vs Higher gives you dry and more alcoholic vs more body and less alcoholic. I ended up loosing the 3-5 degrees like mentioned above and wondered what it would do to the final product. Would it combine both making a balanced beer, or does the hotter temp triumph? Couldn't really find much, anyone with experience have any input? Why don't you see that as a mash profile?
OP
OP
If it didn't get any darker, than you had conversion. Your 73% shows that. It worked fine, but I understand that it is a rather odd test and not as clear as it should be.
I hope you re-sanitize your carboy after you let it sit out overnight. Why do you fill it with boiling water? As long as it's clean, a little star san will take care of anything in there. I may be misunderstanding...explain this further to me so I can comment, because it looks like you have a carboy exposed to the elements before you use it. (and be careful with boiling water and glass.)
Because then you would have a high gravity wort and your yeast will have trouble fermenting through it. If you do it in steps, then the yeast are acclimated (not to mention their increase in number) so that they can handle the extra sugar. It works very well. My buddy made a 28% barleywine using this method...with nothing but extract!
Fun, sometimes...I really don't know anything about brewing...I'm just waiting for someone to call me out
Decoctions are fun, as long as you have the time. Try it out!
Though it might not be the best scientific description, think about it like this:
Lower temps (~145-153°F) - Extract simpler sugars and give you a dryer beer.
Higher temps (~155-158°F) - Extract more complex sugars and leave dextrins in the beer
Mash out temps (~162-170°F) - Denature the enzymes and stop conversion
It works forward to some degree. For instance, I could spend some time mashing at 148°F, and then raise the mash to 158°F to get some dextrins, then mash out at 165°F to stop conversion.
It doesn't work backwards. If you start at 158°F, you can't go back down to 148°F to get simpler sugars. However, conversion takes time, so if you miss your mash temp, if you correct quickly, you'll be fine.
Someone else may have a clearer explanation...but that's how I understand it.
agenthucky
Well-Known Member
I think because it is Iodophor and not Iodine. Iodophor says it's only 2% iodine, correct? Maybe the additives are darker?
I keep B-Brite in all my carboys when they are sitting in storage. At this point the top is covered with plastic wrap and the stoppers and airlocks over that so nothing gets in. When I get ready to use them I dump out the B-Brite into a big kettle to sanitize what I'm about to use (funnel or measuring glass). This leaves the carboy empty, I keep the plastic wrap over the top with the stopper and so on. I boil water, let it cool for a few minutes. The water is still piping hot when I add it to the carboy, but not boiling. Perhaps I should let it cool a little more. I quickly rinse the carboy out with a little bit. B-Brite says it needs to be rinsed after sanitization. In order to keep the sanitization you need to do it with clean boiled water. After rinising out lightly, I add the rest of the boiled, somewhat cooled water. I usually go with around 2.5 to 3 gallons, cover it with the pastic wrap and stopper and airlock, cover it with a towl and place it outside to cool. When I wake up I have cold boiled water to clean with and dilute the concentrated extract worts. With AG, I only need this for cleaning, so it's not important, it is just what I did to get cooled water to dilute with. Sometimes, if I am feeling thurough, I'll empty out the water into a clean vessle to use, and throw some no-rinse into the carboy since I need it for equipment anyway. But I don't think that is necessary.
WOW! 28%! That is insane. Sam Adams only goes up to 25%, Dogfish Head I think has 18%, this must have been some strong yeast. I know it's common for yeast to have 10% ABV tolerance. This means that for the high OG wort you have when it starts eating sugars and producing alcohol, it can eat enough sugar to have produced 10% ABV before the alcohol it's produced kills it off. Some yeast goes up to 12%, and High Gravity yeast can get up to 16% (From what I've seen). Now, did he do this by doing the step additions of extract to a normal yeast that has a 10-12% tolerance? Did you get special yeast? I thought that craft brewers raised generations of yeast that can tolerate anything above 16-18%, this can take some time. Kudos to your friend for pulling that off. I will have to try this for the sake of doing it (I'm not a huge fan of Barleywines).
Also, out of curiosity, is the extract boiled and added to the wort, or just added? That stuff is quite sticky!
I didn't think it would work backwards, but not much comes up when you google "What happens when you mash from a high temp to low"
I often like to blend characteristics in my beer. Continuous hop additions, and flavor profiles with grains. I couldn't find much on blending mashing temperatures. At least nothing like step mashing.
sp1365
Well-Known Member
I have made it and I am very pleased with it for a first attempt. I also have had DFH India Brown Ale and unfortunately I did not like it. Not enough hop and a weird after taste.
agenthucky
Well-Known Member
I know what you mean, it is a bit sweet, but I really liked it on draft. Browns are usually sweeter, so if I were to make an India Brown, I would add tons of hops, the DFH IBA just doesn't have that 'tons' feeling. The brown sugar is a nice addition though.
sp1365
Well-Known Member
The way I view an India Brown and the way I brewed mine would be an English Brown ale that finishes with good hop flavor over and above what a typical Brown Ale would be. DFH India Brown, at least the ones that I had, had no discernible hop flavor or aroma and had an almost cloying sweetness to it.
agenthucky
Well-Known Member
I agree, personally the brown ale (as a style) on its own is a little sweet for my taste. I really like hopping porters to give them a kick, the roasty hoppy flavor gets me every time. Browns seem more polarized. DFH IBA is like a cross with a brown and and a bock beer. Like I said though, it was tasty on tap.
OP
OP
I think the iodine is dark. Could be wrong, tho, never tried it.
Gotcha, covered will keep it sanitized. Never used B-brite.
As he stepped it up, he used different yeasts to complete it. He finished with champagne yeast and I know he used the super high gravity yeast for some of it (at low temps so as not to create unpleasant esters.)
It was really good...it was less barley wine, more like utopius...but better IMO.
Boiled. He originally did a 2.5 gallon batch, then added extract solutions with each step...he really paid attention the whole process. It only got like 70% attenuation or something like that, but the alcohol really balanced the sweetness...it was great (in small quantities, of course
)agenthucky
Well-Known Member
"Solutions of elemental iodine have the unique property of exhibiting dramatically different colors depending on the polarity of the solvent. When dissolved in nonpolar solvents like hexane, the solution appears deep violet; in moderately polar dichloromethane the solution is dark crimson, and in strongly polar solvents like acetone or ethanol, it appears dark orange or brown. "
Decided to look it up. The deep orange color is what describes it when I added it to my mash sample. Guess that's good, I've yet to see the deep purple that means you still have starch. I think next time I'm going to do it with a sample after 10 mins of mashing just to see the color.
OP
OP
Yeah, I've done that. It is dinstinctly different with starch. Throw some flour in there
agenthucky
Well-Known Member
DeathBrewer, you said you get better efficiency with the 10 minute sparge at the end. Since you were doing it the older way of dunking the grains have you noticed an increase in tannins? Or is 10 minutes a good midpoint? I forget if you've already addressed that.
Grimster
Well-Known Member
Ordered a premilled AG from AHS and one from BMW so I'll be doing my first AG probably this weekend or next weekend so just a note I'm bookmarking this thread and reading it again and again so hopefully I'm ready for it Thanks for the great write up!
Thanks for the great write up!
lady_brewer
Well-Known Member
Just a random (uneducated thought) - to get a blend could you just make two partial worts mashed at different temps and then mix them together? Obviously this would mean more time spent brewing, but if you wanted to try blending something different would this work?
OP
OP
Sure, that would work. You could blend to taste. Or make two different beers and blend after fermentation. Or do both
ecojack
Well-Known Member
I am ordering an all-grain kit TODAY just to try this method out.
agenthucky
Well-Known Member
DeathBrewer (or anyone with an opinion), have you done any step mashing with this method? I want to do a rest at 120, then raise it to 150. Any idea on the best way to do this? I was having a long discussion with the guy at the brew shop about the best way to do it with BIAB. Directly heating it might cause scorching unless I stir, which would lose heat, meaning I would have to put the burner on high...bad idea. I have almost NO room for infusion. I thought decoction would be best but he disagreed. And then I thought possibly removing the grains, and heating the mash water. This wouldn't burn the grain and I could heat it faster. He didn't really like that method either. He said the grains would get cold, and it would be like reusing a tea bag after it got cold and might get off flavors. I think I might try to get half of the mash water out and heat it up, leaving the grains still in some warm water.
What do you think? What have you done in the past?
What do you think? What have you done in the past?
OP
OP
I would go with decoction. That way you are not heating the mash itself and not worrying about stirring and ripping/burning with the bag...just scoop them into a smaller pot and boil it up. ProMash can help you with the quantity to pull, or you can google "decoction calculator" and it gives a ton of results.
Decoction is always my favorite way to go...as long as I don't have to worry about it getting overly malty. That's not always the case, either, as long as you don't boil for more than 10 minutes or so.
Why didn't he like decoction? Just make sure you stir that sucker well so the grains don't burn and it will be fine.
Decoction is always my favorite way to go...as long as I don't have to worry about it getting overly malty. That's not always the case, either, as long as you don't boil for more than 10 minutes or so.
Why didn't he like decoction? Just make sure you stir that sucker well so the grains don't burn and it will be fine.
agenthucky
Well-Known Member
I think he was worried about tannins, and the profile of the beer isn't overly malty. Although I've never had a good one, I decided to try my luck at a cream ale. A creamy pear ale to be exact. It was quite an interesting brew day to say the least.
I decided to do a little freestyle with my step mash. I started out at 121F for 20 minutes. While that was going I boiled 3/4 gallon of water. After the rest I removed the grains into the kettle I will soon be sparging in. I't didn't have the sparge water in it yet. As soon as I removed the grains I cranked the heat on the mash water, and added the boiling water. I just about hit my temp of 160 within 5 minutes. I made a miscalculation of the temperature of the grains when adding back in, and it brought the temp down to 145F (shooting for 150F). I added in the last bit of boiling water I had to raise it to 147F. Mashed for 50 minutes. I left it a little longer because I forgot to heat the sparge water. All this moving around, I forgot.
So a little of direct heating and a small infusion. I was at the TOP of the kettle during the boil. I think next time I need one, I'll do a decoction. Save time and effort. The beer itself was an experiment anyway. The brew store didn't have flaked corn, so the guy recommended to me that I get canned corn, drain it, and blend it lightly. That and I couldn't find a ripe pear anywhere. I got a little lucky at the local fruit market, but next time I will look in advance. It may not be the prettiest beer ever, but I went over my expected 68% and got 71% conversion. Not bad. I racked it on top of the Pacman yeast I had from the Dead Guy clone (man was there a lot of healthy yeast after that fermentation), and it took off vigorously within 2 hours.
My closet now smells slightly like vanilla and creamed corn. We'll see, the whole beer only cost $15 for 5 gallons!
OP
OP
I didn't think corn would work in the mash without first doing a cereal mash...did you include the corn in your efficiency calculation? Definitely sounds interesting...let me know how it tastes.
agenthucky
Well-Known Member
I didn't bother with the cereal mash, I just did a protein rest for the corn, wheat, and oats I had in it. I did calculate everything when I looked at the efficiency, beer alchemy says 71%. The corn did soak in a little cold water after it was blended, maybe the 30-50-65C did the trick. I wasn't too worried because I had some german malts and 2 row to back it up.
I am quite anxious to taste it, but it is a couple months away. I think I get more of a creamed corn smell because of the canned corn I used. It's fading as fermentation is slowing, but the smell might have something to do with the pear as well, so I can't know.
The guy at the brew store said one of the best cream ales he had was made with canned corn...we'll see.
lady_brewer
Well-Known Member
Just wanted to say that I have been rereading this thread... and it is awesome as always. I have yet to take the plunge and order some grains, but when I do this is the method I will be using. (Down the road I have my eye on a turkey fryer that is fairly reasonably priced)
I hope you will forgive me when I come back to double check all of my amounts... reading quarts is so foreign to me, I like litres... and all my beers so far have been 6US gallons, so more conversions necessary...
Anyway - a question... one thing I really noticed on this read through was the importance of water. I get why (more or less... did some university chem) but am not really sure how to go about gauging my water. We have an artesian well... I have been using it so far in all my kits with no issues... and it is great for drinking... what simple steps/ tests can I do and take just to get an idea of what it is really like? Or where can I send (in general) it to get tested?
I am sure I will have more questions later
Oh... and one more vote to have this stickied... maybe in the AG section? I always bump off the other sticky to grab DBs link in sig... (well not now since I have it bookmarked)...
I hope you will forgive me when I come back to double check all of my amounts... reading quarts is so foreign to me, I like litres... and all my beers so far have been 6US gallons, so more conversions necessary...
Anyway - a question... one thing I really noticed on this read through was the importance of water. I get why (more or less... did some university chem) but am not really sure how to go about gauging my water. We have an artesian well... I have been using it so far in all my kits with no issues... and it is great for drinking... what simple steps/ tests can I do and take just to get an idea of what it is really like? Or where can I send (in general) it to get tested?
I am sure I will have more questions later
Oh... and one more vote to have this stickied... maybe in the AG section? I always bump off the other sticky to grab DBs link in sig... (well not now since I have it bookmarked)...
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