Red Chair NWPA Clone

I know there are a few threads about this beer already but I have yet to find one where anyone says "This is it! This is as close as it gets!" Does anyone have a tried and true recipe? Or a link to a successful recipe? Here is what Deschutes website says. Note that they say the temps, times and weights are the challenge.

Red Chair NWPA Clone

SPECIFICS
Recipe type: All grain
Batch size: 5 U.S. gallons
Original gravity: 1.060-1.065
Final gravity: 1.015-1.019
Boil time: 95 minutes
Fermentation temp: 65°

Yeast type: English Ale

MALT
NW 2-row Pale Malt
Crystal Malt
Carastan
Carapils
Munich
Pilsner

HOPS
Cascade
Centennial

**Note: Temps, times and weights are the challenge. Happy Brewing!

I think they give you a fair bit to work with. They also mention it's 60 IBU's and 6.2%, so it's in lighter IPA territory. You can pretty accurately guess the SRM by taking a close look at a poured bottle into a clear glass which would give you a place to start in adding the darker malts. Deschutes uses their own in-house strain of yeast, but if you used a 1056 or S-05 you'd likely be close to what they use. 95 minutes seems like a long boil.
I'd bitter with Centennial and use more Cascade for late additions. Dry-hopping would likely be Cascade also, but a Centennial/ Cascade combination is nice too in dry-hopping.

Here's my attempt with some notes...

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f66/red-chair-nwpa-clone-360189/

humulene said:

I know there are a few threads about this beer already but I have yet to find one where anyone says "This is it! This is as close as it gets!" Does anyone have a tried and true recipe? Or a link to a successful recipe? Here is what Deschutes website says. Note that they say the temps, times and weights are the challenge.

Red Chair NWPA Clone

SPECIFICS
Recipe type: All grain
Batch size: 5 U.S. gallons
Original gravity: 1.060-1.065
Final gravity: 1.015-1.019
Boil time: 95 minutes
Fermentation temp: 65°

Yeast type: English Ale

MALT
NW 2-row Pale Malt
Crystal Malt
Carastan
Carapils
Munich
Pilsner

HOPS
Cascade
Centennial

**Note: Temps, times and weights are the challenge. Happy Brewing!

Click to expand...

I love this beer...please let us know if you come close. I'm not sure where to start...
Blend of 2-row and pils. Not much more than a pound of crystal? I've never brewed with Carastan so I don't know what kind of flavors it contributes. What crystal? Which Carastan...light, medium, or dark? Maybe a couple pounds of Munich. Centennial for bittering, Cascade for late additions. That us pretty low attenuation...maybe WLP002 and mash high, around 154-155?
Discuss!

I used AZ IPA's recipe as a starting point. He did good work. I just tweaked some of the quantities and changed the yeast. I am also unfamiliar with Carastan but I've read that it's similar to Crystal 30 so I used that. Let me know what you think!

Red Chair NWPA Clone
American IPA

Recipe Specs
----------------
Batch Size (G): 5.0
Total Grain (lb): 12.500
Total Hops (oz): 4.00
Original Gravity (OG): 1.064 (°P): 15.7
Final Gravity (FG): 1.016 (°P): 4.1
Alcohol by Volume (ABV): 6.29 %
Colour (SRM): 6.4 (EBC): 12.6
Bitterness (IBU): 59.7 (Tinseth)
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 70
Boil Time (Minutes): 90

Grain Bill
----------------
9.500 lb American 2-Row (76%)
1.000 lb Munich I (8%)
1.000 lb Pilsner (8%)
0.500 lb Carapils (Dextrine) (4%)
0.500 lb Crystal 30 (4%)

Hop Bill
----------------
1.00 oz Centennial Pellet (9.7% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) (0.2 oz/Gal)
1.00 oz Cascade Pellet (7.8% Alpha) @ 30 Minutes (Boil) (0.2 oz/Gal)
1.00 oz Cascade Pellet (7.8% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil) (0.2 oz/Gal)
1.00 oz Cascade Pellet (7.8% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Aroma) (0.2 oz/Gal)

Misc Bill
----------------
0.02 oz Irish Moss @ 15 Minutes (Boil)
0.02 oz Yeast Nutrient @ 15 Minutes (Boil)

Single step Infusion at 152°F for 60 Minutes.
Fermented at 65°F with WLP002 - English Ale

Have you brewed this^^^^?? I looked up some of the other recipes and this looks similar. One thing I don't get is the 1lb of pilsner. I just don't think they would even bother with that small amount of base malt. I think it was on BTV that they were talking about the sack rule--big brewers want to keep recipes simple and don't want to use less than a sack of grain in their ratios so they can maintain consistency without measuring. I have no idea how to scale this for a big system but maybe someone out there with more commercial experience or even understanding could help. I would think pilsner should be at least a third of the base if not closer to half. That makes way for a couple pounds of Munich. I like the hops and yeast.

I haven't brewed it. I was just tinkering. It is similar to the other recipes. I adjusted it until the OG, FG, IBUs and ABV matched the original exactly. I have only one all grain batch under my belt so I am not sure how pilsner malt will affect the outcome but what you say makes sense. Anyone have input?

humulene said:

I haven't brewed it. I was just tinkering. It is similar to the other recipes. I adjusted it until the OG, FG, IBUs and ABV matched the original exactly. I have only one all grain batch under my belt so I am not sure how pilsner malt will affect the outcome but what you say makes sense. Anyone have input?

Click to expand...

Thank you for doing all the work to nail the numbers! That's a great place to start. If you have a total of 12 lbs base (including Munich) I think I will try 6lbs 2-row, 4 lbs Pilsner, and 2lbs Munich. I will try to find Carastan but I wish we knew which one. I have seen threads where people posted blends of crystal to approximate the Carastan but not sure how close it is. And the site says Deschutes uses both crystal AND Carastan... lot of room in there! 1/2 lb of Carapils seems right.

Here's a post I found about Carastan (seems like a complicated way to basically get C30/40):

"Postby timatn » Wed Nov 19, 2008 12:41 pm
I use Carastan 30/37 quite regularly and like it very much, it is different from American crystal malts in that it does have a more pronounced toffee and melanoidin character with a light toasty note. I put it in my amber, brown, and imperial amber ales. Pretty much any place that calls for Crystal 40.

To substitute for 1 lb. of Carastan: mix 8 oz. Crystal 20, 7 oz. Crystal 40 and 1 oz. Crystal 120.

My LHBS does carry it, but because of the distance between and my work hours, I often order it online. Generally from MoreBeer.com, but there are others, just Google it.

I've not used the lighter version yet, but have tasted it, and it doe have pleasant raw sugar flavor. Definitely European in origin. I plan on substituting it for Crystal 15 in my recipes when my stash runs out."

Heads up, when they say NW pale malt, I'm pretty sure they mean Great Western Malting NW 2-row which is around 3 srm. A lot of breweries up here in the PNW use this malt.

This is from GWM's website:

"Northwest Pale Ale Malt (2.6-3.0°L)
A slightly darker base malt than our Premium 2-Row, our Northwest Pale Ale Malt is produced from well-modified, Western-grown 2-Row barley, with a kilning regimen based closely on traditional British Pale Ale malting practices. Contributes a malty complexity to beer flavor and aroma. Excellent in American Pale Ales and American versions of British beer styles."

Heads up, when they say NW pale malt, I'm pretty sure they mean Great Western Malting NW 2-row which is around 3 srm. A lot of breweries up here in the PNW use this malt.

Click to expand...

Sounds similar to my main basemalt but mine is from the Canada Malting Company and is called Superior 2row.

Thank you everyone for the great input! When I get home from work I'm going to mess around with the recipe again. I'll up the pilsner and munich and I'll see if I can change the 2 row to something resembling the NW malt. I'm going to brew the final draft soon which will probably be the best way of determining if its accurate.

Any chance you could substitute some Marris Otter if you didn't have access to the NW Pale?

tinytowers said:

Heads up, when they say NW pale malt, I'm pretty sure they mean Great Western Malting NW 2-row which is around 3 srm. A lot of breweries up here in the PNW use this malt.

This is from GWM's website:

"Northwest Pale Ale Malt (2.6-3.0°L)
A slightly darker base malt than our Premium 2-Row, our Northwest Pale Ale Malt is produced from well-modified, Western-grown 2-Row barley, with a kilning regimen based closely on traditional British Pale Ale malting practices. Contributes a malty complexity to beer flavor and aroma. Excellent in American Pale Ales and American versions of British beer styles."

Click to expand...

hillhousesawdustco said:

Any chance you could substitute some Marris Otter if you didn't have access to the NW Pale?

Click to expand...

humulene said:

Thank you everyone for the great input! When I get home from work I'm going to mess around with the recipe again. I'll up the pilsner and munich and I'll see if I can change the 2 row to something resembling the NW malt. I'm going to brew the final draft soon which will probably be the best way of determining if its accurate.

Click to expand...

In BeerSmith Belgian Pale malt and Maris Otter are both 3 SRM. Colorado Malting Co. (my local maltster =] ) has Colorado Base Pale at 2.5-2.9 L and Belgian Style Pale malt at 3-4 L. I think any of these would be closer than your average 2-row, with Maris Otter as the most widely available substitute. I will try this with the Co. Base Pale and Colorado Pilsner plus Carastan, Munich, etc.

Yeah MO is probably closer than your average pale malt, but its almost twice as expensive.

tinytowers said:

Heads up, when they say NW pale malt, I'm pretty sure they mean Great Western Malting NW 2-row which is around 3 srm. A lot of breweries up here in the PNW use this malt.

This is from GWM's website:

"Northwest Pale Ale Malt (2.6-3.0°L)
A slightly darker base malt than our Premium 2-Row, our Northwest Pale Ale Malt is produced from well-modified, Western-grown 2-Row barley, with a kilning regimen based closely on traditional British Pale Ale malting practices. Contributes a malty complexity to beer flavor and aroma. Excellent in American Pale Ales and American versions of British beer styles."

Click to expand...

Not sure about that. GW has two products base malt products on the hbs shelves here. One is called 2-row and the other pale. I think the 2-row is around 2 and the pale around 3.

one thing i liked about red chair was the bitterness, it very smooth. it made me wonder if the avoided the 60 min addtion

Glynn said:

one thing i liked about red chair was the bitterness, it very smooth. it made me wonder if the avoided the 60 min addtion

Click to expand...

Several techniques could be employed to get that smooth bitterness. First Wort Hopping seems to result in a smoother profile. Even though the hops are in contact longer they start at mash temps and get to lounge a while before you start to boil. Whirlpool hopping or hop stands have a similar result. Less contact time than boiling but you still get extraction of hop oils and alpha acids without isomerization...or something like that! There is an article on it in the latest BYO magazine and I remember an episode of BTV that discussed it too. Very common in commercial brewing, just getting play in the homebrew world.

StMarcos said:

Not sure about that. GW has two products base malt products on the hbs shelves here. One is called 2-row and the other pale. I think the 2-row is around 2 and the pale around 3.

Click to expand...

GWM Pale=NW Pale Malt...same thing.

any updates on this? too many red chair fans to have not come solid. somebody out there must have done a dead ringer by now!

lets hear it!

p.s. im enjoying a fresh red chair right now. yes, please.