Saisons

Are saisons brewed with regular yeast, or do they have buggies in them too. Been searching the google and have not come up with a concise answer.

They're brewed with Saison yeast..

Can be done either way. I've never used bugs in a saison, but there's a number of commercial saisons with Brett, and I've seen folks do 100% Brett saisons.

Funny, I was just reading up on this as well. Some are made using Brett, some have lactic acid added to give a tangy taste, and others use a bit of acidulated malt. None are required to make a saison a saison, but those are the ways to give them a tangy/sour taste.

For my personal tastes I wouldn't like a tangy/sour saison. I do like the esters that a good saison yeast imparts, though...
So, in my case I stick to making saisons with just saison yeast.

What WLP yeast uses strictly saccharomyces.

Saison is a wide style and originated as a farmhouse brew with variations between farms and a rustic edge. As others have stated, you can take them many directions. The originals were much lower alcohol than commercial saisons seem to be today as they were intended to be drank when working the field. The book Farmhouse Ales is great if you're looking for more details and history.

eobie said:

What WLP yeast uses strictly saccharomyces.

Click to expand...

They have both a french and belgian saison strain, netiher has bugs. The belgian strain is tricky...likes to be fermented hot, in the 90+ degree range. Its more fruity and better in my opinion but my last batch took almost 2.5 months to finish, and that was only down to 1.007. BTW - the belgian strain is said to be from Brasserie Dupont.

Not all Saison yeast need that kind of heat. There are several different ones on the market now. Saison can be made with and without bugs.
My Saison went from 1.057 to 1.005 in 2 weeks.

I'm fermenting with this one at the moment;
http://www.austinhomebrew.com/product_info.php?products_id=13303

I used white labs saison 2 in mine that I brewed memorial day weekend. Went hard for a day. 3 weeks later, and there are still small bubbles coming up. Thought this yeast would finish sooner..

Don't have a clue as to what the gravity is. Can't really check it but I hope it finishes soon. I can't wait for this beer. It was the first recipe I designed.

Thanks for your help guys!

Brew-boy said:

Not all Saison yeast need that kind of heat. There are several different ones on the market now. Saison can be made with and without bugs.
My Saison went from 1.057 to 1.005 in 2 weeks.

Click to expand...

posted in a different reply:

"June 6th, a 2-liter starter hit the wort in the fermenter. A 68F start, ramping
up to 80F a couple days later, then an aquarium heater set to 84F until
the 13th.

Seven days later, June 13th, the sg sits at 1.004. It was done.

The yeast cake in a 10.5 gallon batch was two inches thick.

Racked to two cornies. Carbing now. Dry hopped with Columbus
(love the grapefruit flavor) in one of the cornies.

I'll soon be sampling!"
---------------------

Today is the 17th of June. I've sampled and it tastes great.
It's clear, crisp, fruity, and just a very good beer.

Recipe: Saison wlp565
Brewer: art
Asst Brewer:
Style: Saison
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (40.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 12.55 gal
Post Boil Volume: 11.27 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 10.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.064 SG
Estimated Color: 9.4 SRM
Estimated IBU: 28.2 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 76.3 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
10.50 gal Reading, PA Water 1 -
3.00 g Calcium Chloride (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 2 -
21 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 3 86.6 %
1 lbs 4.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 90L (90.0 SRM) Grain 4 5.2 %
1 lbs Rye, Flaked (2.0 SRM) Grain 5 4.1 %
1 lbs Sugar, Table (Sucrose) (1.0 SRM) Sugar 6 4.1 %
1.05 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Boil 60. Hop 7 24.6 IBUs
2.00 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 8 -
1.00 oz Willamette [4.30 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 9 3.6 IBUs
1.0 liter starter Belgian Saison I Ale (White Labs #WLP565 Yeast )


Mash Schedule: BIAB, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 24 lbs 4.0 oz
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperatu Step Time
Saccharification Add 57.03 qt of water at 158.8 F 152.1 F 75 min
Mash Out Heat to 168.0 F over 7 min 168.0 F 10 min

Sparge: Remove grains, and prepare to boil wort
Notes:
Dry hop with 1 oz Columbus.
1 tblspn Hazelnut extract at flameout
------


Created with BeerSmith 2 - http://www.beersmith.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

engineer - what type of presence does the hazelnut extract bring? would you do it again? I can't imagine it working well, but you say it tastes great????

Stauffbier said:

I'm fermenting with this one at the moment;
http://www.austinhomebrew.com/product_info.php?products_id=13303

Click to expand...

how do you like it? I'd love to know how it compares to the more common saison strains. I'm a saison NUT- it will be most of the beer I brew this summer, so having some more variety in yeasts will be a big deal.

daksin said:

how do you like it? I'd love to know how it compares to the more common saison strains. I'm a saison NUT- it will be most of the beer I brew this summer, so having some more variety in yeasts will be a big deal.

Click to expand...

I really have no idea, yet. It's only been in primary for 12 days. I haven't checked gravity since I pitched. I can say it looked like a healthy fermentation, and krausen dropped after about 7-8 days. I started it at 69F and have ramped it up to 74F little by little since day one. It smells awesome out of the airlock. I'll probably check gravity in a few days. I'll let you know how well it attenuated and how it tastes....

daksin said:

how do you like it? I'd love to know how it compares to the more common saison strains. I'm a saison NUT- it will be most of the beer I brew this summer, so having some more variety in yeasts will be a big deal.

Click to expand...

Curiousity got the best of me, so I took a hydro sample today. It's sitting at 75F at the moment.
My OG was 1.049 and the reading I got today is 1.006. That's almost 88% attenuation. I'm very happy with that!

The beer is extremely clear and has a great amber color.
Taste is very nice. It has a subtle yeast flavor along with the spice tones you would expect from a saison. The rye malt and torrified wheat that I used play very nicely with the saison characteristics. I can see this being a great summertime brew. I might bottle it up this weekend!

Stauffbier said:

Curiousity got the best of me, so I took a hydro sample today. It's sitting at 75F at the moment.
My OG was 1.049 and the reading I got today is 1.006. That's almost 88% attenuation. I'm very happy with that!

The beer is extremely clear and has a great amber color.
Taste is very nice. It has a subtle yeast flavor along with the spice tones you would expect from a saison. The rye malt and torrified wheat that I used play very nicely with the saison characteristics. I can see this being a great summertime brew. I might bottle it up this weekend!

Click to expand...

Awesome! Thanks! Can't wait to try this one out myself- I prefer the fruitier saisons, but I need some variety in my summer beers. I like the use of rye- will have to try that out. Cheers:rockin:

tippetsnapper said:

engineer - what type of presence does the hazelnut extract bring? would you do it again? I can't imagine it working well, but you say it tastes great????

Click to expand...

Unfortunately, one tablespoon per 10 gallons is apparently not enough
extract, I can detect nothing of the hazelnut.

I will try again at a later date.

anengineer said:

Unfortunately, one tablespoon per 10 gallons is apparently not enough
extract, I can detect nothing of the hazelnut.

I will try again at a later date.

Click to expand...

Where did you get the extract? I was just looking at buying some from Austin. The stuff they carry is best used during bottling. I once put a bottle of chocolate extract I got from them in a 5 gal batch on bottling day, and it worked out very nicely...

Stauffbier said:

Where did you get the extract? I was just looking at buying some from Austin. The stuff they carry is best used during bottling. I once put a bottle of chocolate extract I got from them in a 5 gal batch on bottling day, and it worked out very nicely...

Click to expand...

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http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005BSYOM6/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Researching, I may have discovered a reason why I could detect no hazelnut in my recipe.

Apparently I should not have added the extract to a hot liquid... I added
at flameout.

There is a good chance a lot of the extract "boiled off" since many extracts boil
at less than the temperature water boils.

anengineer said:

--------------
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005BSYOM6/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Click to expand...

Thanks!
This is the one I'm looking at maybe buying;
http://www.austinhomebrew.com/product_info.php?cPath=178_21_74&products_id=13186

regarding saison brett, just be waery of how brettanoymes can change a beer over time as it continues to work in the bottle

I brewed a standard saison with the dupont strain last year and split the batch inoculating half with Brett C as an experiment.

after 2 months on brett, it tasted like a normal saison unchanged.

after 5 months on brett, it adopted a nice earthy funk to it

after 7 months it really developed some strong wild character to it

and a year in, the brett has pretty much taken over the profile of the beer, going as far as a beer judge claiming it was bordering on a lambic type profile.

Im letting this one sit out another year and see what happens to it.

burkecw - how far did you let the dupont strain go before you added the brett? Or did you do half of the batch with Brett only? Any chance you've been measuring the gravity each time you let is sit awhile? I'm curious how low brett will take a beer, and I'm assuming once it reaches that point, the profile shouldn't change toooo much. Thoughts?

hey tippetsnapper,

So i let the dupont strain go for 8 weeks until I hit my target at 1.006. I then pitched a vial of Brett C into 3.5 gallons and let it go taking taste samples every few months. it was only after 5 months that I saw a good pellicle covering the top of the beer took a reading and bottled. it had gone down to 1.000, and after 5 months in a carboy, I imagine its not going to drop significantly more, so I think I've hit the limit on this strain for this batch.

whatever flavors developed int he bottle over the past 6 months, it hasnt affected the body or carbonation level (im not getting gushers all the sudden where I wasn't before). if you plan on using brett, I'd personally go on the safe side and give it plenty of time in secondary to do its thing.