Should i ditch my SS braid for a manifold?

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javajo91

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10 gallon Gott MLT with SS 16" braid.

OK - 4 batches in to my AG brewing.
3 troublesome runoffs..

Not sure if its just my lack of experience, my technique or my milling...
Using MaltMill set at .045.

English style bitter - no issues with runoff
Cream ale - nightmare runoff
Wit - bad but not too bad..
Oatmeal Stout - bad until i added boiling water and gave a good stir.

I think a big part of my problem may be not mashing out at a high enough temp...especially when using alot of adjuncts. I never reach 170 before sparging..

I'm sure that technique is everything with sparging to prevent a stuck runoff.
And I'm sure a bottom slit manifold while giving up a bit of efficiency would provide more trouble free runoffs...

I built my current setup and would like to keep it but I'm starting to get frustrated with sparging..

Can anyone chime in with their opinions as to braid vs. manifold?
 
I've never had trouble with my braid. I would doubt it's your crush or sparge temp. Might I suggest using a handful of rice hulls in your mash. They're cheap and, in my experience, prevent slow runoffs.
 
Thanks shecky - I've heard that rice hulls should be used when using lots of adjuncts..
What ratio do you use?
Ratio, shmatio. I just grab a handful, rinse them off in a colander (those suckers are dusty) and throw them in.

I'm doing a pumpkin ale sometime next week. I think I may throw close to a pound in for something like that. Wheat, rye, throw a good bit in.
 
Thanks tdavisii -

Just trying to see where i may be going wrong here..
Do you mash out at 170?
Do you use rice hulls when using lots of adjuncts?
 
shecky - Pumpkin huh?
I'd love to make that but i've heard nightmares with using pumpkin...
How do u plan on using it? In what form?
Canned pumpkin. 60 ounces of it in the mash. It will be very, very sticky. Rice hulls will help immensely, though I still expect it to be slow.
 
Anything with more than say 10% non barley grains should get a handful of rice hulls. If you're batch sparging, use 185F sparge water. If you fly, mashout with boiling water at a volume that gets you to 170F before sparging.
 
10 gallon Gott MLT with SS 16" braid.

are you absolutely sure it's SS? We've had posts in the past where the person thought they had SS, but it was something else - and they all had run-off problems.

Also, did you use a support tube inside of it? Or just using the braid? If you're using a support tube - maybe you need more holes?
 
+1 on no problems with runoff using a SS braid. You could still be getting compaction problems, etc. regardless of whether you're using a SS braid or a manifold. Are you just cranking the valve open when you vorlauf/sparge?
 
AZ_IPA
Yep - ordered from McMaster Carr - Stainless Steel. This is my second design that i got from another member on this site. 16" SS braid and compression spring inside to keep from collapsing. No need to punch holes in it...
My first design was 12" SS braid from Home Depot that i had to pull the inside out of. That collapsed on me although my stirring and whacking the thing did not help..
For all you guys that use a SS braid and do not have stuck runoffs are you mashing out at 170 or somewhere around there? I think that's what I'm missing in my process...
 
weirdboy -

Hmm - compacting...perhaps I'm using too much initial strike water...and it's too heavy initially.
Nope - opening valve VERY slowly..
 
For all you guys that use a SS braid and do not have stuck runoffs are you mashing out at 170 or somewhere around there? I think that's what I'm missing in my process...

No mash out for me - no rice hulls either, but I also do mostly all barley beers.

I also open the valve wide open.

do you have a hose coming off your spigot? If so, how long? I think the consensus is you need a long hose to really get a good suction going.
 
I use a SS braid with no support.Bought it from HD.The first one I got was was some sort of synthetic grrr.Never had a stuck sparge.I just did a pumpkin 2 weeks ago with a handful of rice hulls.And an oatmeal stout this past weekend with 2lbs. oats and no rice hulls.I can squish the crap out of that thing and it wont collapse.If you have a good seal(no grains going into the ball valve) then I don't know what to tell ya.Try going to HD or lowes or where ever and get a "flood safe" hose.
 
Az ipa
Yep. I have about a five foot hose coming off the valve. I am afraid to to open my valve up to quickly for fear of compacting the bed....but this is what u do?
 
yes, I open it full throttle - vorlauf until clear (usually 1/2 gallon or so); close the valve; add the vorlaufed liquid back the HLT and let 'er rip.
 
AZ_IPA
Yep - ordered from McMaster Carr - Stainless Steel. This is my second design that i got from another member on this site. 16" SS braid and compression spring inside to keep from collapsing. No need to punch holes in it...
My first design was 12" SS braid from Home Depot that i had to pull the inside out of. That collapsed on me although my stirring and whacking the thing did not help..
For all you guys that use a SS braid and do not have stuck runoffs are you mashing out at 170 or somewhere around there? I think that's what I'm missing in my process...


Sorry...but this type of braid is too fine...the build post finally closed by saying that the sheathing type braid is perhaps too fine a filter. I had a hunch that this build was a "better mouse trap", of course you needed a spring inside a piece of finely woven soft SS sheathing.

Switch it out for a water heater supply braid and report back...those things are bullet proof!

Sound to me perhaps you had an inferior braid both times.

post 44...see link below
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/mlt-cooler-conversion-crushproof-braid-122433/index5.html
 
Sorry...but this type of braid is too fine...the build post finally closed by saying that the sheathing type braid is perhaps too fine a filter. I had a hunch that this build was a "better mouse trap", of course you needed a spring inside a piece of finely woven soft ss sheathing.

Switch it out for a water heater supply braid and report back...those things are bullet proof!

Sound to me perhaps you had an inferior braid both times.
I think Wilser hit the nail on the head, I was using a braid that was too fine also, it was strong as heck, wouldnt collapse, but it would not let the liquid through, I second the other opinion, go to lowes and get a standard water supply line in ss, take out the hose inside, and dont put a thing inside it, it will not collapse, crimp the end real good, and you will be worry free, good luck.:mug:
 
I had braid problems, HAD. Instead of straight braid, i ended up using a longer piece of supply hose and now my braid runs the inner circuference of the mash tun. I brewed a wheat beer that consisted of 60% wheat, 40% pilsner, and a handful of rice hulls and the wort was flowing strong! Do a search for "circular braid"
 
I thought everyone used a circular braid. When I designed my MLT it didn't even occur to me to use a straight one. Maybe that's the difference. Although, I am conscious about not opening the valve too wide right away. I open it a little, let the grain settle a bit, and then gradually open it wider as it goes along.
 
I use a copper manifold and have only had one stuck sparge in the last 20 AG batches. I think it was due to starting the sparge too quickly, causing the suction to clog the holes before a filter bed could be achieved. I recommend mashing out with boiling water to 170F and then starting the sparge slowly. I am switching to a 15 gal keggle as my mash tun with a false bottom, which I'm sure will be a whole new ballgame.
 
my cpvc manifold cost me maybe 8$ i just did the biggest cover for the bottom of my mlt (igloo 5 gal) and cheaply connected it to the valve ..


i have maybe 5 feet of cpvc left so i can just reuse for my bigger future mlt build

i cut many slits with a dremil tool aboiut every 1/4 inch apart

never a stuck sparge o anything i get good flow and good effencensy
just get the connector pieces you need and cut the pipe and never used anything to bond the pieces i have no plan to ever go ss braid or copper cpvc is so easy and cheap to work with
 
FWIW, I subscribed to the crush proof braid thread, and like someone earlier stated the mesh is too fine.

Personally, I went with the 3/4" SS water heater supply braid, and I put a 3/4" copper pipe cap in the end. I placed a hose clamp to close it off and weight it, as well as, "crimp" or close off then end, works freakin great!

I would go w/ 3/4" SS braid if you are going the braid route.

If it is relevant, I got 81% brewhouse efficincy on my first AG with my mash tun and process.
 
Thanks to all! I'm sort of glad that its not my technique. I actually have another SS braid that was for some sort of water supply that i bought at homedepot but it's only 1/2 inch. I'm going to take the advice here and buy a nice long 3/4" SS peice of water heater supply tubing.
Jagg - any harm in still using my SS spring to help keep a bit of the stability?


Thanks to everyone! Next batch soon so I'll report back after i use my new gear.
 
To those who have posted that the braid from the crushroof thread is too fine, I disagree. I've used that exact config on 8 straight batches, and have had great success. I did have one stuck sparge, but that was due to it being the first time I used a march pump, not the braid.

It definitely is finer than the supply lines you get at HD, but it is definitely useable.
 
To those who have posted that the braid from the crushroof thread is too fine, I disagree. I've used that exact config on 8 straight batches, and have had great success. I did have one stuck sparge, but that was due to it being the first time I used a march pump, not the braid.

It definitely is finer than the supply lines you get at HD, but it is definitely useable.

what type of beers are you brewing? Are u using alot of wheats, flaked grain?
I think that's the combination that is causing slow runoffs.
I agree that it definetely is usable but it's probably better - at least for me -to just run to Lowes and go with the more porous braid.
I'm sick of holding my breath every time i turn that valve for the first time :)
 
10 gallon Gott MLT with SS 16" braid.

OK - 4 batches in to my AG brewing.
3 troublesome runoffs..

Not sure if its just my lack of experience, my technique or my milling...
Using MaltMill set at .045.

English style bitter - no issues with runoff
Cream ale - nightmare runoff
Wit - bad but not too bad..
Oatmeal Stout - bad until i added boiling water and gave a good stir.

I think a big part of my problem may be not mashing out at a high enough temp...especially when using alot of adjuncts. I never reach 170 before sparging..

I'm sure that technique is everything with sparging to prevent a stuck runoff.
And I'm sure a bottom slit manifold while giving up a bit of efficiency would provide more trouble free runoffs...

I built my current setup and would like to keep it but I'm starting to get frustrated with sparging..

Can anyone chime in with their opinions as to braid vs. manifold?

I've done all my AG batches (only 6, to date) with nothing but the braid that came with my Bargain Fittings MLT conversion kit. It's large diameter braid, maybe 8-9 inches long. It works fine, lauters like a storm drain, wort is plenty clear. All I can say.
 
what type of beers are you brewing? Are u using alot of wheats, flaked grain?
I think that's the combination that is causing slow runoffs.
I agree that it definetely is usable but it's probably better - at least for me -to just run to Lowes and go with the more porous braid.
I'm sick of holding my breath every time i turn that valve for the first time :)
Here are the styles I've brewed with that setup:
pale ale
saison
calif. common
pumpkin ale
dark mild
american wheat
esb
ipa

I used rice hulls in the pumpkin, but not in the wheat.

It definitely is a fine weave, much finer than the one I had preivously. It may be too fine for some people, but is working fine for me. I'm not special or have better technique than others, I just haven't had an issue with that braid.

Even if you replace the braid ith one that is't as fine, keep the spring. That is a great aspect of the design.
 
How fast are you opening your outlet valve for vorlaufing? If you open the valve too quickly too soon, you can create a strong suction that compacts the grainbed too much.

Edit: Sorry, I missed that this was already addressed.
 
AZ_IPA
Yep - ordered from McMaster Carr - Stainless Steel. This is my second design that i got from another member on this site. 16" SS braid and compression spring inside to keep from collapsing. No need to punch holes in it...
My first design was 12" SS braid from Home Depot that i had to pull the inside out of. That collapsed on me although my stirring and whacking the thing did not help..
For all you guys that use a SS braid and do not have stuck runoffs are you mashing out at 170 or somewhere around there? I think that's what I'm missing in my process...

30" braid (HD), never had a stuck sparge. Have had all sorts of wheat, rye, corn/rice (shhhh), etc.

Rice hulls anytime I use non-barley grains.

I always mash out with 200-ish water to get the whole mash up to 170, then "sparge ho!"
 
Thanks everyone! Great bunch here.
Well - might as well go out and buy the more porous braid and a 3/4 in dia.
I honestly think my issues are a perhaps a combination of the very fine braid and the fact that i rarely ever hit 170 when i mash out (lack of experience)
I may use the new braid then switch back and forth once i increase my experience a bit and see which rig gives the best performance.

Thanks everyone!
 
less than a quarter pound rice hulls. if your getting stuck sparges/mashes, it is either your braid holes are too big, your not letting your grain makes its bed properly, or your crush is too fine.
 
I personally wouldn't trade my manifold for any braid. Brewed 10 gallons of hefe two weeks ago. I ground the wheat reeeeally fine, and didn't use any hulls and didn't have any stuck sparges at all.

Hope you get yours to work.
 
I use a 3/8" braid. It runs the length of my cooler now, but it's been as short as 6 in. I never use hulls, and I've never had a stuck runoff in 354 batches with it. There is no spring or anything else inside of it.
 
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