wheel barrow full of hops at the end

In these forums, I repeatedly see recipes that call for ounces of hops thrown into the wort towards the end of the boil. 5-8 oz of different varieties of hops thrown in the last 15 min, many times with 3-4 oz thrown in at 5 min to shut off. I can only imagine the green goo that is in the boil kettle

However, looking at award winning recipes, commercial practices, and studies on the subject, this seems like a huge waste of money (and beer that's been absorbed). 0.5 oz of cascade, for example, thrown in at 10 and 5 min, when combined with dry hopping, will give plenty of hop flavor to an APA and more hop aroma then 3 oz of cascade thrown in at 5 min alone, imo.

Just looking for opinions on this. I also see large amounts for dry hopping. Since the leaves float, I find more than 0.5-1 oz of whole leaf hops to be overkill, since they float on each other and hardly contact the beer. That is in a large carboy too, dry hopping in a cornelius keg would probably only need .25-.5 oz of whole leaf hops. I see recipes where people are adding 4 oz of (whole leaf?) hops for dry hopping. Unless Of course, you really stir to get the leaves into solution (which causes other issues), I would say 3 oz must just be wasted. Pellets sink, but dry hopping with pellets is kind of a waste of time and money too (but that is a separate thread that has been dealt with before).

pkeeler said:

Just looking for opinions on this. I also see large amounts for dry hopping. Since the leaves float, I find more than 0.5-1 oz of whole leaf hops to be overkill, since they float on each other and hardly contact the beer. That is in a large carboy too, dry hopping in a cornelius keg would probably only need .25-.5 oz of whole leaf hops. I see recipes where people are adding 4 oz of (whole leaf?) hops for dry hopping. Unless Of course, you really stir to get the leaves into solution (which causes other issues), I would say 3 oz must just be wasted. Pellets sink, but dry hopping with pellets is kind of a waste of time and money too (but that is a separate thread that has been dealt with before).

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I would say that if you added your hops to a bag, or teaball/infuser and weighted it with glass marbles or SS ball bearings, and if you got the buoyancy just right your hops would sink enough to be fully submerged but not sink to the bottom.

Regardless, weighting them in a bag or infuser of some sort would solve any non-contact issues with the beer, w/o stirring or agitation.

I dry hop w/pellets all the time I never use more than 2oz in the primary after fermentation is complete, but I have had great results. They flaot for a while then sink to the bottom, after 2 weeks you don't have to really wory about getting that sludge into your keg or bottling bucket.

It seems like everyone over-hops these days. It actually keeps me from enjoying a lot of craft beer nowadays. To each his own I guess.

pkeeler said:

0.5 oz of cascade, for example, thrown in at 10 and 5 min, when combined with dry hopping, will give plenty of hop flavor to an APA and more hop aroma then 3 oz of cascade thrown in at 5 min alone, imo.

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How do you substantiate this opinion?

HokieBrewer said:

How do you substantiate this opinion?

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I'll top that. 1-2 ounces thrown in at flameout, (temps at 180f or below) pwns any amount of 5 minute additions.

Don't believe me, try it.

wildwest450 said:

I'll top that. 1-2 ounces thrown in at flameout, (temps at 180f or below) pwns any amount of 5 minute additions.

Don't believe me, try it.

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I can believe that more readily than the first statement.

wildwest450 said:

I'll top that. 1-2 ounces thrown in at flameout, (temps at 180f or below) pwns any amount of 5 minute additions.

Don't believe me, try it.

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HokieBrewer said:

I can believe that more readily than the first statement.

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To add to those statements, FWH additions are far superior to 15 and 20 minute additions as well.

I know of some people who only FWH, no late additions or DH.

wildwest450 said:

I'll top that. 1-2 ounces thrown in at flameout, (temps at 180f or below) pwns any amount of 5 minute additions.

Don't believe me, try it.

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+1 here! I have switched to flameout additions in all my recipes instead of 5 min, much better use of the hops. I also have been FWH-ing all my batches too instead of a 60 min add, I cannot pin down the difference, but my FWH beers seem smoother, less bitter hop pop then flavor, it seems to run together better if that makes sense.

I agree, I prefer dry hopping over flameout additions. Better use of hops in my opinion.

Hop backing is the shizznit for aroma and flavor!

0.5 oz of cascade, for example, thrown in at 10 and 5 min, when combined with dry hopping, will give plenty of hop flavor to an APA and more hop aroma then 3 oz of cascade thrown in at 5 min alone, imo.

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HokieBrewer said:

How do you substantiate this opinion?

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Well, "imo" sort of implies I have no empirical proof. However, does anyone know of a commercial APA brewer that throws the equivalent of hops at the end of the boil? I've drank plenty of hoppy commercial beers, but are they putting in 750 lbs of hop pellets at flame-out? That would be the equivalent of a 5 gal. batch with 3 oz with a 20,000 gal. brewery batch.

pkeeler said:

However, looking at award winning recipes, commercial practices, ...

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Take a look at the recipe for Pliny the Elder (one of the best commercial DIPA), 3.5 oz at flameout and 3.75 oz dry hop (over two additions). I’ve heard similar numbers for many other “top-shelf” IPAs (more than an ounce of dry hops per gallon for Sculpin for example), and the hop character I’ve gotten with additions in this ballpark are out of this world. I’ll agree that there are diminishing returns as you pile more hops in, but you are still adding hop aromatics.

That said, I think process issues like keeping oxygen out of the beer, getting the beer dry, using high quality hops etc… are just as important when trying to make a hoppy beer.