bleach in homebrewing

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vicmick

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g/day all have just joined so hello to everybody .i have just read a book that says you can use household bleach to sterilise brewing equipment wont this leave a taste in the fermenter.i use brewshield but its dear so if theres something cheaper i would like to know.vicmick:
 
sudsmonkey said:
They say not to use bleach on stainless steel, as it's corrosive. For glass or plastic, it's great, just rinse well.

I completely agree

homebrewer_99 said:
I've used bleach a lot in the past. Just be sure to rinse the item for a minute or so under hot running water.
I'd agree with this if you live in America, where the water heater is fed directly from the water supply to the house. If your water heater is fed from an open storage tank (like mine was in England), then it will not be sanitized, and could cause problems with bacterial infection.

homebrewer_99 said:
If you don't your beer will end up tasting like vinegar and will be undrinkable.

I respectfully disagree with this. Vinegar is caused by a bacterial infection (which the bleach should kill), but not rinsing excess bleach will certainly cause off flavors.

There are other sanitizers that do not require rinsing. They cost more than bleach, but are still not excessive.

My favorite is Iodophor. It sanitizes very quickly, and doesn't require rinsing.

-a.
 
vicmick said:
i have just read a book that says you can use household bleach to sterilise brewing equipment
You can't use bleach to sterilise anything, but you can use it to clean, and even sanitize your brewing equipment (except for stainless steel, as previously noted). To use bleach as a cleanser, mix two oz. bleach to 5 gallons of water and let set overnight. As others have noted make sure to rinse, rinse, and rinse some more.

To use bleach as a no rinse sanitizer, mix 1 teaspoon of bleach in 5 gallons of cold water, and immerse the items in this solution for 1/2 to 1 hour.

The above from Papazian, for what it's worth.
 
I respectfully disagree with this. Vinegar is caused by a bacterial infection (which the bleach should kill), but not rinsing excess bleach will certainly cause off flavors
I no longer use Bleach, failure to properly rinse resulted in 35 of 52 bottles having almost no carbonation and a "soapy" taste (undrinkable).. the bottles that were rinsed well yielded a very tasty Bitter Ale.

If you use Bleach rinse rinse rinse then rinse a few more times.

There is nothing Cheaper than Bleach, but at about 12 cents US (thats $50 Canadian) a gallon Star San is a good way to go considering it can last up to 4 weeks. Idophor is good but after a few hours it loses potency.
 
My problem with Iodophor is that you can actually use too much. I'm not much of a measurer, so I like one step. I probably make it more work than it needs to be, I do an Iodophor soak and follow it up with a rinse in one step. I just do that to make sure I don't have any Iodine left on my stuff. Sounds like I could just rinse with hot water from the faucet, though. I always thought you had to boil rinse water...

What is this star san you speak of? I don't think I've noticed it in my LHBS. Can you use too much of it?
 
God Emporer BillyBrew said:
What is this star san you speak of? I don't think I've noticed it in my LHBS. Can you use too much of it?
Star-san is another no-rinse (that I use). It comes in a handy bottle with a measuring chamber so it's pretty much impossible to FU. 1oz/5g water == no-rinse heaven. It also lasts around a month and can be re-used, so 5g will generally last for one entire brewing cycle.
 
God Emporer BillyBrew said:
My problem with Iodophor is that you can actually use too much. I'm not much of a measurer, so I like one step. I probably make it more work than it needs to be, I do an Iodophor soak and follow it up with a rinse in one step. I just do that to make sure I don't have any Iodine left on my stuff. Sounds like I could just rinse with hot water from the faucet, though. I always thought you had to boil rinse water...

True you can use too much Iodophor, but if it is measured you can really stretch it because you don't need alot of it. The amount of residual iodine won't impart the flavor of your beer. I think you may be more at risk by rinsing the bleach solution off of your equipment with hot water.

Besides, Iodophor really only requires a 30 second soak.
 
Baron von BeeGee said:
You're not a real homebrewer if you use bleach.

I was SO waiting for someone to say that. :ban:

For the star -san questions--you guys really need to listen to the sanitation show from thebrewingnetwork.com for some fascinating info about that product. You name it, it does it. It cleans (kind of) sanitizes, and helps your plants grow. I'm not kidding. Listen to the show and be amazed.

I'm using the stuff from here on out.
 
budbo said:
Idophor is good but after a few hours it loses potency.

Dunno about that. I recently switched to Iodophor from bleach(got sick of rinsing) and have found that it will last literally for months in a covered plastic bucket. I mix up about 3 gallons and reuse it no infections yet........
 
Dude said:
Cause they get cloudy?

And slippery as well.

Dude, you baiting him?

forgot to mention that the san-star lasts indefinately, not the 4ish weeks that most people think.
AND you can drink the stuff!!... need be.:drunk:

by the way, I hope none of you start listening to the show, so I can keep sighting it in an informative yet friendly manner.
 
ablrbrau said:
Dunno about that. I recently switched to Iodophor from bleach(got sick of rinsing) and have found that it will last literally for months in a covered plastic bucket. I mix up about 3 gallons and reuse it no infections yet........

Did it permenantly stain your bucket? It did mine, which is why I used to use bleach in plastic...
 
I used Bleach the first couple of times I brewed, (After reading Charlies book),
Ruined two batches and decided there and then that the bleach should stay in the laudry area of the basement and NOT around anything to do with brewing. I use Iodophor for sanitizing and Oxy Clean for cleaning( it is cheap too, but like other things you have to RINSE WELL) I haven't had an infection or off flavored beer since. That is my two cents worth
PS I'm so happy, it's brew day:ban:
 
ablrbrau said:
Dunno about that. I recently switched to Iodophor from bleach(got sick of rinsing) and have found that it will last literally for months in a covered plastic bucket. I mix up about 3 gallons and reuse it no infections yet........
Comment was Based on a study of Idophor I found

However, the activity of iodophor solution decreases with time and in the presence of protein. As shown in this study, when iodophor solution was exposed to protein its antimicrobial activity was neutralized.

Guess it depends on how you store it
 
I used bleach for my first batch (primary, secondary, and bottles) and got very tired of rinsing. The patch came out excellent, but have absolutely no regrets switch to star-san after that point. The amount of time and hassle it saves is well worth it.
 
Baron von BeeGee said:
You're not a real homebrewer if you use bleach.












I keed! :mug: :tank:

After reading all the posts above, I decide to give my 2¢ worth. First, nothing wrong with using bleech as a cleaner as long as you rinse well with HOT water. The heat will get rid of the chlorine smell and taste.
icon14.gif

Second, star-san is about the best sanitizer I have found and can be used indefinately as long as the PH of the solution is below 3.
Third, Idophor sucks... the staining ability of Idophor that is.:mug:
 
ablrbrau said:
Dunno about that. I recently switched to Iodophor from bleach(got sick of rinsing) and have found that it will last literally for months in a covered plastic bucket.
Got to disagree with you on this one dude...unless by months you really mean hours.
 
Cause they get cloudy?

And slippery as well.
Naw that's easy to rinse off..

I think some type of cleaning stuff got spilled in reacting with the star-san.. Reminds me of the stupidity I displayed when without thinking I used an oxygen based cleaner, ran short, so put another cleaner in the mix (which created a cool looking reaction) When the reaction stopped it looked to be cleaning fine.. took me about 2 hours to ask myself "WTF am I doing soaking an aluminum pot in an Oxygen based cleaner?" By that time I had nicely oxidized my pot.
 
I use bleach at 2 cups per 5 gallons in my plastic primaries and secondaries. soak for 1 hour prior to batch and after. rinse well with HOT water and seal up for cool wort or air dry if storing. I figure at that ratio NOTHING can get into the plastic and live. same buckets for 20+ batches not a single problem. they are a little stained and have a hint of brew but no issues. I use one-step and san-star for everything else.
 
.... and just when I was going to go with Iodophor... It looks like it's be star san instead... I'm all about EASY...

Ize
 
Baron von BeeGee said:
Hmmm...I use 2 Tbsp per 5g when I sanitize with bleach...seems to work.
And Papazian says 2 teaspoons per 5 gallons for sanitizing. I wonder sometimes if the whole problem with bleach is that everyone just uses way to much of it.
 
El Pistolero said:
And Papazian says 2 teaspoons per 5 gallons for sanitizing. I wonder sometimes if the whole problem with bleach is that everyone just uses way to much of it.
Man, I've been spending 3x too much on bleach! Of course, I use Star-san 90% of the time, so I guess I'm not saving all that much, anyways. I do agree that people use way too much bleach for sanitation.
 
Baron von BeeGee said:
I do agree that people use way too much bleach for sanitation.

Any bleach is too much. Again, I'll have to interject. Rinsing with hot water defeats the purpose of sanitizing with bleach, I mean whats the point in rinsing the bucket out with hot water? Sounds like a potential recipe for disaster.

IMHO Idophor & Star San are much more user friendly to your eauipment.
 
El Pistolero said:
Got to disagree with you on this one dude...unless by months you really mean hours.
What data does anyone have on this? I've heard hours, weeks, and it's good if it's still amber. I'm wondering if we are all repeating what we have heard or basing comments on proven facts.

I'm going to switch to StarSan simply because Idopher stains plastic and rubber. It is also very messy. It's almost impossible to pour from the bottle without spilling every where and making a terrible mess. Other than that, I've had no problems with Idopher. (I've saved it up to two weeks and it worked great.)
I've got about a 50 years supply of Idopher so I'm deciding if I should just make the switch or use up what I have. (A pint bottle goes a LONG way!)
 
glibbidy said:
Rinsing with hot water defeats the purpose of sanitizing with bleach, I mean whats the point in rinsing the bucket out with hot water? Sounds like a potential recipe for disaster.
I've rinsed all my equipment in hot water and for 10 years I've never had a problem with infection.
 
RichBrewer said:
I've rinsed all my equipment in hot water and for 10 years I've never had a problem with infection.

Ditto. I am either really lucky or people give this way too much thought. For at least ten years now I have cleaned/sanitized plastic buckets, plastic tubing, plastic spoons, caps, airlocks and basically anything plastic in bleach (two tsp per 5 gallons), soaking anywhere from an hour to overnight, and rinsing with first hot and then cold tap water. I have never had an infection, flat beer, off-flavors etc.

Glass and stainless I sanitize with idophor. The day I empty a glass carboy I always soak it overnight in b-brite to lift off the deposits--nine out of ten times I do not even need to use a carboy brush--and then I sanitize with idophor on brew day.

The only problem I have is a mental one when I use idophor on plastic--I feel like if the stain can get into the plastic it can get into my beer, although that is probably not the case.

I've never heard of this other stuff but it sounds like it is worth trying.
Like all things in brewing, do whatever works for you. :mug:
 
RichBrewer said:
I've rinsed all my equipment in hot water and for 10 years I've never had a problem with infection.

Me too, until a PRO I know said why risk it ?

I never had a problem with bleach either. I decided to switch to Iodophor since it was more environmentally friendly then bleach. I guess I should consider migrating to Star-san since it is more environmentally freindly then both bleach and iodophor. It would be the Green thing to do.
 
glibbidy said:
Rinsing with hot water defeats the purpose of sanitizing with bleach,

Nobody said they were rinsing with DIRTY water, just HOT water.

If you boil your rinse water to sanitize it, then it can be QUITE useful for rinsing bleach off of your gear while not compromising the sanitation effort.

This is how I sanitized for over 7 years of brewing. I just eventually got sick of boiling water and rinsing and switched to Iodophor.
 
one question:

isn't star-san the stuff that can create noxious fumes if it comes in contact with bleach? (Granted, if you have star-san, you probably won't be using bleach for anything, but....)

This was the main reason I selected Iodophor over star-san. I've been known to get pretty tipsy while brewing (imagine that!) and I didn't trust myself enough to have two potentially reactive chemicals within arms reach.

My $0.02 on Iodophor: I love it and can't see myself switching to anything else. How long does it last? I have no idea, but I don't bother trying to re-use my sanitizing solution anyway... I mix it up and use it for everything I'm doing that day, then I toss it.

-walker
 
glibbidy said:
Any bleach is too much. Again, I'll have to interject. Rinsing with hot water defeats the purpose of sanitizing with bleach, I mean whats the point in rinsing the bucket out with hot water? Sounds like a potential recipe for disaster.

IMHO Idophor & Star San are much more user friendly to your eauipment.
I'm not following. :confused: Many, many homebrewers have used bleach for sanitation purposes for years without incident. I'd say the empirical evidence suggests there's a very valid point for using it.
 
Baron von BeeGee said:
I'm not following. :confused: Many, many homebrewers have used bleach for sanitation purposes for years without incident. I'd say the empirical evidence suggests there's a very valid point for using it.



where can u get star san and idophor in the uk........i only see vwp at the lhbs which is clorine based
 
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