Let me get this straight?

OK, all you experienced brewers...

The difference between an IPA and APA:
The IPA is generally stonger and has more IBUs. And the type of hops used is different between the two. APAs go with the hops like cascade that have citric and pine characteristics. I have never really done an IPA...is there more to the difference? Do the malts differentiate the two as well? This is all coming about after drinking the Ninkasi Total Domination IPA last night...that may be the best beer in the world. I am trying to figure out why it is so good.

Thanks!

IPA: BJCP 2008 Style Guidelines - Category 14

APA: BJCP 2008 Style Guidelines - Category 10

Same hops (for the most part)

It's mainly a difference of strength. The IPA is both higher gravity and more bitter than an APA.

The only thing that separates the malt or hops is the distinction between English or American.

For me, Pale Ale is always English (thence not APA). And IPA is always American. then again that is just MY preference and not a beer "rule".

Otherwise, the distinctions just mean more (or less) of everything.

GilaMinumBeer said:

And IPA is always American. then again that is just MY preference and not a beer "rule".

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IPAs come in both American and English varieties. Ameican IPAs are an American "interpretation" of the English IPA - different hops, perhaps higher IBUs and ABV as well.

I've always looked at it this way - "traditional" or English IPAs are hopped up versions of "traditional" or English Pale Ales; American IPAs are hopped up versions of American Pale Ales (APAs). The main differences between IPAs and Pale ales are IBUs and ABVs. The main difference between American and English beers are ingredients (mainly hops, though malt to a lesser degree)

My guess is that "Total Domination" is an American IPA (brewed in the Washington, right?) - using American "C" hops with an IBU of 60 or so and an ABV on the order of 6 or 7%.

GilaMinumBeer said:

The only thing that separates the malt or hops is the distinction between English or American.

For me, Pale Ale is always English (thence not APA). And IPA is always American. then again that is just MY preference and not a beer "rule".

Otherwise, the distinctions just mean more (or less) of everything.

Click to expand...

JLem said:

IPAs come in both American and English varieties. Ameican IPAs are an American "interpretation" of the English IPA - different hops, perhaps higher IBUs and ABV as well.

Click to expand...

But thanks for playing.

GilaMinumBeer said:

But thanks for playing.

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I realize you were giving your opinion - I just wanted to make sure the OP realized that all IPAs are not of the American variety.

Though now that I look at the OP's signature, I'm thinking he's got things pretty well figured out!

JLem said:

I realize you were giving your opinion - I just wanted to make sure the OP realized that all IPAs are not of the American variety.

Click to expand...

aight!

JLem said:

IPAs come in both American and English varieties. Ameican IPAs are an American "interpretation" of the English IPA - different hops, perhaps higher IBUs and ABV as well.

I've always looked at it this way - "traditional" or English IPAs are hopped up versions of "traditional" or English Pale Ales; American IPAs are hopped up versions of American Pale Ales (APAs). The main differences between IPAs and Pale ales are IBUs and ABVs. The main difference between American and English beers are ingredients (mainly hops, though malt to a lesser degree)

My guess is that "Total Domination" is an American IPA (brewed in the Washington, right?) - using American "C" hops with an IBU of 60 or so and an ABV on the order of 6 or 7%.

Click to expand...

Thank you much....both of you.

Ninkasi Brewery is in Eugene, OR ...go Ducks!

APA
Vital Statistics: OG: 1.045 – 1.060
IBUs: 30 – 45 FG: 1.010 – 1.015
SRM: 5 – 14 ABV: 4.5 – 6.2%

American IPA
Vital Statistics: OG: 1.056 – 1.075
IBUs: 40 – 70 FG: 1.010 – 1.018
SRM: 6 – 15 ABV: 5.5 – 7.5%

English IPA
Vital Statistics: OG: 1.050 – 1.075
IBUs: 40 – 60 FG: 1.010 – 1.018
SRM: 8 – 14 ABV: 5 – 7.5%

so, technically you could have a 1.057, 40 IBU beer that fits the categories for all three...

AZ_IPA said:

APA
Vital Statistics: OG: 1.045 – 1.060
IBUs: 30 – 45 FG: 1.010 – 1.015
SRM: 5 – 14 ABV: 4.5 – 6.2%

American IPA
Vital Statistics: OG: 1.056 – 1.075
IBUs: 40 – 70 FG: 1.010 – 1.018
SRM: 6 – 15 ABV: 5.5 – 7.5%

English IPA
Vital Statistics: OG: 1.050 – 1.075
IBUs: 40 – 60 FG: 1.010 – 1.018
SRM: 8 – 14 ABV: 5 – 7.5%

so, technically you could have a 1.057, 40 IBU beer that fits the categories for all three...

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10 SRM too! Ayup.

Which is where ingredients help to make some, albeit minimal, distinction.

GilaMinumBeer said:

10 SRM too! Ayup.

Which is where ingredients help to make some, albeit minimal, distinction.

Click to expand...

Sorry, but I have to jump in again -

Two IPAs with all the same vital characteristics (IBUs, SRM, ABV) but one made with American hops (e.g. Cascade, Chinook, Centennial, Amarillo, Summit) and one with English hops (e.g. Kent Golding, Fuggles, Challenger) are going to be VERY different. The flavor and aroma differences are substantial - and given the amount of and timing of hop additions in IPA, these differences will be magnified. English IPAs (and Pale Ales) tend to lack the citrusy/grapefruity flavors that American IPAs and APAs have.

This hops chart may help formulate your recipe - Brew Your Own: The How-To Homebrew Beer Magazine - Comparing and Selecting Hops

JLem said:

Sorry, but I have to jump in again -

Two IPAs with all the same vital characteristics (IBUs, SRM, ABV) but one made with American hops (e.g. Cascade, Chinook, Centennial, Amarillo, Summit) and one with English hops (e.g. Kent Golding, Fuggles, Challenger) are going to be VERY different. The flavor and aroma differences are substantial - and given the amount of an timing of hop additions in IPA, these differences will be magnified.

This hops chart may help formulate your recipe - Brew Your Own: The How-To Homebrew Beer Magazine - Comparing and Selecting Hops

Click to expand...

Yes. But this does not ring true for a APA and an IPA with the same vitals. Which is where diffrences in grist composition and hop charge do make minimal changes.

GilaMinumBeer said:

Yes. But this does not ring true for a APA and an IPA with the same vitals. Which is where diffrences in grist composition and hop charge do make minimal changes.

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sure, I wasn't considering this. I think there is really more of a continuum between Pale and India Pale ales so that a beer with the above "vitals" could be labeled as an "intense" pale ale or a "mild" IPA.

JLem said:

Two IPAs with all the same vital characteristics (IBUs, SRM, ABV) but one made with American hops (e.g. Cascade, Chinook, Centennial, Amarillo, Summit) and one with English hops (e.g. Kent Golding, Fuggles, Challenger) are going to be VERY different. The flavor and aroma differences are substantial - and given the amount of and timing of hop additions in IPA, these differences will be magnified. English IPAs (and Pale Ales) tend to lack the citrusy/grapefruity flavors that American IPAs and APAs have.

Click to expand...

agreed; hence the reason the BJCP has the categories 10A, 14A, and 14B - the #'s may be the same, but they are different beers.

p.s. I must confess that I once entered the same beers in both the 10A and 14B categories since technically it fit both to style...

I actually made an IPA that was 1.056 with 50IBU and about 7 SRM, it is more of a pale ale though after I tasted it. Albeit very bitter, but an APA

In my taste buds, an IPA is going to have more late hop additions to it. I believe most IPA's are dry hopped, while many APAs are not, or at least not as agressively

For me APA's need to be more of a hop presentation in terms of flavor. I want to taste those hops and not get a lot of malt profile in the way. IPA's while more agressively hopped will have the malt profile to help balance it out.

In my opinion it is primarily a difference in balance. I'll only address the American versions since that was the OP's question.

APA's especially have a very good malt to hop balance. Hop character is evident, and important, but not the showcase it would be in an AIPA.

AIPA, is less about the malt, more about the hops. Usually higher in ABV, but the styles can overlap on that.

The grist for both, could potentially be identical, as can the hops used, but not the hop schedule.

Most importantly - there is no 'right' answer.

If you are speaking in terms of BJCP guidelines, we don't even need a debate - Just read the description. It is clear.

But the BJCP is only a set of just that - GUIDELINES. Beer styles haven't been codified in law (except where codified in law!!! Kolsch, for example). You can make something and call it whatever you want. That's what Bass did, and that's Russian River Did. The BJCP has gathered examples of beers, and specific qualities of beers, and put them in a named group that they feel best represents the best qualities of the best beers that exist within that group.