Testing of new wild yeast, I'm so happy.

I'm very excited about my new yeast, see here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/can-i-culture-yeast-juniper-berries-169156/

However, when I added it to beersmith I realized I don't really know much about it yet, does anyone have detailed procedures/guidelines of officially determining:

1. Flocculation, Do I time it? How? When do I know to stop the timer?
2. Attenuation, Anything different than this: From FG = OG - (OG x %) => % att. = (OG-FG)/OG)?
3. Alcohol tollerance, I guess this is obvious? Is there a standard for wort when testing this?
4. Ideal temperature, Again, may be obvious but is there a standard wort to use?
5. Anything else I forgot, lag time? etc?

I've already started testing as you can see in the thread, however I can see it taking many different batches with many different variables to determine all this. Is there a source that will officially test this yeast for a small fee? I presume someone somewhere has already propagated this yeast from juniper berries before, it is perhaps an ale yeast already on the market?

Keep on yeasting my friends

Any tasting notes yet?

Even if it only the starters. Very cool project my friend.

BW

I think it would be hard to do an absolute measurement of any of those things. It would be easier to do a comparative experiment using another yeast as a control. I..e, S-05 in an identical wort. Then, daily notes and pictures.

B-Dub said:

Any tasting notes yet?

Even if it only the starters. Very cool project my friend.

BW

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Tasted the starter before pitching, it was pretty "fruity" and surprisingly clean, it hadn't flocculated yet, but I also had some unknown hops in it, it tasted like beer. I believe I noticed some banana esters coming from one last night, this is probably because of the 80F temp. When I start more testing I'll use some known hops and take more notice of everything.

passedpawn said:

I think it would be hard to do an absolute measurement of any of those things. It would be easier to do a comparative experiment using another yeast as a control. I..e, S-05 in an identical wort. Then, daily notes and pictures.

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That's a good idea, I'm pretty certain its going to be an ale yeast as it was slow in the starter/culture at ~65F, however, it is quite fast in the wort at 80F. That may have been just due to the building/propagation phase in the cellar I guess. I'll be washing all the yeast from this first batch and will do some at lagering temps, as well as other temps next time. Will eventually use this on the Poor scots strong ale experiment assuming it will ferment to ~11%, I think it will.

Keep on brewing my friends

Edit: I noticed when I split the 1 gallon batch that some of it was already flocculated pretty tight, it took quite alot of "swirling" to get it all off the bottom.

Update please................

Well, I'm still testing but so far I've determined:

1. It's pretty clean. Floculates well (used irish moss in the original 80/ wort), attenuates well (80/ 1.054 OG finished at 1.012FG, 11%test from 1.116 OG finished at 1.010 FG so actually ended at ~13.96%, 17% test from 1.173OG finished at 1.060FG making it 15.05% so I'm estimating appx. 15% is the yeast tollerance). Have yet to see any sour type yeasts whatsoever. So I guess it's Saccharomyces "something"? More info and pics here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/can-i-culture-yeast-juniper-berries-169156/index5.html

2. No off flavors detected from the yeast(s). The batches I've tasted are the 80/, the 11% test batch, and the 17% test batch. Each batch tasted how I expected for a normal fermentation, I have saved bottles of each batch for future notes. Each of these batches were from the original 80/ wort and brown sugar was added in steps to the 11% and 17% tests, see above link for details/pics.

3. So far has been tested at 75-80F and worked well with no esters detectable, also testing in cherry wine fermentation (second gen from washed yeast out of 80/ batch) alongside an 1118 batch at 68F which is still fermenting and just got pressed a couple days ago, future testing will be beer at saison temp's and lager temp's.

I've been washing all the yeast from these batches so I will be able to tell it's generational longevity as well. I've added the yeast to my beersmith software and will be updating notes there as well as handwritten notes.

I'm calling this a success so far, what else can we test?

Keep on yeasting my friends

COLObrewer said:

I'm calling this a success so far, what else can we test?

Keep on yeasting my friends

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Maybe you could evaluate the trub production of this yeast. Again, I think a comparative analysis with a known standard would be the best way (maybe against S-05 or -04).

Up to half the trub you find at the bottom of a fermenter can be fatty lipids, which can cloud a beer and significantly reduce the head retention. Also, they can quickly oxidize and result in off flavors in the beer (it's one solid argument for using a secondary). Different yeasts produce significantly different amounts of lipids, and different type of lipids too.

Just a thought.

really cool experiment, nice work. i agree that you should compare it against s-05 or 1056 to compare attenuation and flavor production with a consistent mash temp and ferment temp, more like 65 deg to see how it does at a lower temp.

I just replied to the "juniper berry" thread then found this one so I will ask my question here!
As I am new to the world of propagation would I be safe in adding the berries/fruit to my starter then putting it all on the stirplate before decanting and stepping up?

KevinW said:

I just replied to the "juniper berry" thread then found this one so I will ask my question here!
As I am new to the world of propagation would I be safe in adding the berries/fruit to my starter then putting it all on the stirplate before decanting and stepping up?

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I believe passedpawn is doing exactly that, go for it:rockin:

I just stepped up my juniper starter from about 250ml to 2L this weekend. It's been on a stir plate the whole time. I've got a nice 1/4" of yeast on the bottom of the flask now. I'll post a pic soon.