Nugget Nectar Clone

NervousDad said:

I'm heading to Troegs Monday to pickup a case or two It's released early this year! Can't wait.

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Please let me know if you were able to get it and the cost. Will drive to PA this weekend to get it if necessary.

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I was there Saturday, excitedly got 2 growlers of it without trying it because I had my kids with me. I got home, poured a glass, and...... I was disappointed.

The caramel flavors don't come through, the bitterness is there but hop flavors are not there.... It really was not that great.

I have been drinking NN for a long time and it is always a number one beer.

Last year's was not as good as the previous and this one is even worse.

Hopefully since they are making several batches this year, the other batches will be better.

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So in looking at several of the threads regarding this clone, we have Natron008 telling us that his friend who works at the brewery recommends 2/3 pilsner while we have the Trogner bros on record as saying its 80% Vienna. Some kind of smoke screen here? For those that have tried several different grist bills, can we come to any kind of consensus?

For what its worth, we have brewed this about 4 times and won a competition of over 50 other beers and get a bunch of rave reviews. Basically we do 9.5 Pils, 2.5 lb Vienna and Munich and .5 C-120, love this beer.

Sheldon

Sheldon said:

For what its worth, we have brewed this about 4 times and won a competition of over 50 other beers and get a bunch of rave reviews. Basically we do 9.5 Pils, 2.5 lb Vienna and Munich and .5 C-120, love this beer.

Sheldon

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Sheldon,

What hop schedule? Is it the one I used?

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reddskinnfan, we chatted on hbt a long while back when we first were putting together our recipe. This is what we did last time and we did not enter any competitions, but really got some sweet reviews.

Nugget 35.7 IBU FWH (90 minute boil)
Warrior 28.8 FWH
Columbus 15.7 15 min
Simcoe 16.1 10 min
Cascade 2.8 5 min
2 oz Nugget Flame out
.5 Warrior Flame out
2 oz Nugget Dry hop
1 oz Warrior Dry hop

We had approx 99 IBU;s, 7.2 ABV and use a packet of Notty and a packet of Bry-97. Basically the same hop sched for all our versions. Just noticed the last version we had 1 lb Carapils and .5 lb c-60 instead of the c-120. I use the hop age tool in BS to get the appropriate amount of hops to hit the IBU's ive been using.

Sheldon said:

reddskinnfan, we chatted on hbt a long while back when we first were putting together our recipe. This is what we did last time and we did not enter any competitions, but really got some sweet reviews.

Nugget 35.7 IBU FWH (90 minute boil)
Warrior 28.8 FWH
Columbus 15.7 15 min
Simcoe 16.1 10 min
Cascade 2.8 5 min
2 oz Nugget Flame out
.5 Warrior Flame out
2 oz Nugget Dry hop
1 oz Warrior Dry hop

We had approx 99 IBU;s, 7.2 ABV and use a packet of Notty and a packet of Bry-97. Basically the same hop sched for all our versions. Just noticed the last version we had 1 lb Carapils and .5 lb c-60 instead of the c-120. I use the hop age tool in BS to get the appropriate amount of hops to hit the IBU's ive been using.

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I do remember, but forgot the hop schedule. I agree with the 2/3 Pils and Vienna/Munich split for the last 1/3. However on my next attempt, I am going for a 3.5# Vienna and 1.5# Munich 10L, as I think there is more Vienna (color and flavor) than the Munich (aroma).

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we may not have a perfect match, be we do have a really good beer let me know how it turns out. We just bottled a Pliny clone 10 days ago, so prob not gona keg another IPA until we are at least half way done.

Sheldon
(Giants Fan)

Sheldon said:

we may not have a perfect match, be we do have a really good beer let me know how it turns out. We just bottled a Pliny clone 10 days ago, so prob not gona keg another IPA until we are at least half way done.

Sheldon
(Giants Fan)

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Thanks for your (you and reddskinnfan) work on this one. I'm going to be brewing up a 3 gal batch this weekend using a recipe that borrows from a few of the iterations mentioned. Will post recipe later for those that may be interested. Even though we have many fantastic beers available in VT, Nugget Nectar has been sorely missed since I left PA. I'll be hoping this batch satisfies my cravings. Otherwise, will have to trade for Heady Topper et al!

I'm going to try and submit my clone attempt to the midwest competition. I can't imagine that it will fit in the Amber category, but I'm curious to see how it does.

Good luck with the competition.

Sheldon said:

Good luck with the competition.

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Yes, good luck!

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Just got two cases of the real deal for many, many side by side comparisons!

Prost!

reddskinnfan said:

Just got two cases of the real deal for many, many side by side comparisons!

Prost!

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Not sure what an earlier poster was talking about, but the Nugget Nectar I got is FANTASTIC! If you can get it, GO BUY IT!.

brewed a version of this today. used a lot of learning from your posts about the grain bill @reddskinnfan so thanks for that!
used a good amount of learning from the Zymurgy recipe as far as the hops go, but went heavier on the nugget at the end.
also did a hop stand to hopefully emulate some of the hop flavor that troegs gets from their hop back (or that's what I've read they use).
cheers, will report back when I try the first pint!
recipe here:
http://beersmithrecipes.com/viewrecipe/989712/nugget-nectar-clone

poured the first pint from this today! awesome beer! easily the best IPA I've ever brewed (and I brew mostly IPAs).
I think I need to be more diligent with purging everything with CO2 since the aroma from the pint was a lot less than what I smelled from the fermenter.

Had NN for my first time this past weekend and after my first sip had the thought of "Where has this been all my life!!" Tasted like apricot/mango hops with a touch of resiny pine, and caramel backbone throughout the whole sip. I'm not a huge hop bomb fan, I like a good balanced, IPA, Double IPA, etc, but things like Ithaca Flower Power, Stone Ruination, etc aren't my thing.

So, now I'm putting this in the pipeline for the next one or two brews. I am wondering a couple things about the hop schedule that seems to be used the most, see questions below.

Also, with this hop schedule I'm only seeing it work out to 84 IBU's, for a 5.5 gal batch at 75% efficiency. I'll have to play with the numbers for my efficiency and possibly for a 4 or 4.5 gal batch since I do BIAB and am not sure all of this will fit in my 11gal kettle.

FWH 1oz Nugget - I calculated this as a 30 min addition, given that it's a FWH being added to a 90 min boil, correct me if this should be different
FWH .05oz Warrior - I calculated this as a 30 min addition, given that it's a FWH being added to a 90 min boil, correct me if this should be different
20 min 1oz Columbus
10 min 1oz Simcoe
5 min 1 oz Palisade
Flame Out 1oz Nugget
Primary 1oz Nugget - when are these being added, 48-72 hrs into fermentation or when fermentation has a few gravity points left to go?
Primary 0.5oz Warrior - - when are these being added, 48-72 hrs into fermentation or when fermentation has a few gravity points left to go?
Dry Hop 1oz Nugget - how long have most been dry hopping for? Lately I have read any more than 3 or 4 days can lead to grassiness
Dry Hop 0.5oz Warrior - how long have most been dry hopping for? Lately I have read any more than 3 or 4 days can lead to grassiness

I would dump the primary hop additions. I would add those at flameout. Do your normal whirlpool, and chill. You could drop your temp to 170 and add those primary hops too. Would save some added IBU, and retain a little aroma. I normally don't do many 30 minute additions anymore. I add my FW-60 minute additions and add some at 5 and a bunch at flameout. I fee like my beers have improved. Adding hops in primary gave me less than stellar results. If your set on primary addition I would do it when fermentation is 80% complete. I would raise the temp to excellerate terminal gravity and hep scrub some of the O2 introduced by the hops.

I normally dryhop for 5 -7 days.

I'm not sold on doing the primary additions for this, I think they're better suited for NE IPA's more than anything else given what I've read on some new research regarding the yeast/hop interaction during fermentation.

My concern with dropping the FWH hops is that with the grain bill this needs some bitterness to balance out the sweetness coming from the malt. Troegs shows this carrying around 93 IBU's and while some newer research shows that there may not be much value in IBU's above 80, for my first go around I'd like to see how it turns out keeping close to what they specify. I don't have any 30min additions, like you, I have found that anything before 20 pulls out too much flavor/aroma and might as well just be figured into the 60min/bittering addition.

I am willing to go with the following for a simplified hop schedule, but am more tempted to go with what others have tried since it seems they have gotten very very close to the real thing. I wouldn't be upset with something slightly different but would like to end up with something very close and don't want anymore in the way of pine/resin than what NN has, it's enough to play a supporting role and coat the mouth a little but far from really tasting like pine at all.

Potential Hop Schedule:
FWH 1oz Nugget
FWH .5oz Warrior
10 min 1oz Columbus
10 min 1oz Simcoe
10 min 1 oz Palisade
Flame Out 1oz Nugget
Dry Hop 2oz Nugget
Dry Hop 1oz Warrior

To me NN doesn't have a massive amount of aroma from the hops, some slight floral and tropical like smell (maybe mango/apricot). Very similar in taste, it hints at being bitter, then quickly turns to tropical fruit and supporting malt backbone, caramel like, but never becomes cloyingly sweet. All the time there's a slickness to the mouthfeel that keeps the carbonation in check as it never becomes prickly nor too thick. It's very well balanced, maybe slightly leaning towards sweet/malty.

Bottled this past weekend, smell was very very close out of the fermenter, really couldn't tell you what was different, but there seemed to be a slight difference from the real NN. Could just need some carbonation to open it up.

Taste I would say is very close, but might be a little less fruitiness than NN has when really fresh. Mine had a somewhat lingering bitterness quality that NN doesn't have but hopefully that will fade or go away with some carbonation. Other than those two things I would say the recipe is about as close as you can get.

I'll give it a week and a half or so then throw a couple bottles in the fridge. I have one can of NN left and once I've had a couple of the clone and it shows it's carbonated fully I'll do a side by side.

The color is spot on with the real thing. Mine is more bitter and needs more of the fruity hop flavor. I carbonated to 2.2 Vols and think it's to high, I think shooting for 2.0 would be ideal, might be a little different pulling from a keg.

Forgot the pic in the last post, mm one was only in the fridge for 3 days, still somewhat cloudy:

View attachment 1491853949833.jpg

bkboiler said:

brewed a version of this today. used a lot of learning from your posts about the grain bill @reddskinnfan so thanks for that!
used a good amount of learning from the Zymurgy recipe as far as the hops go, but went heavier on the nugget at the end.
also did a hop stand to hopefully emulate some of the hop flavor that troegs gets from their hop back (or that's what I've read they use).
cheers, will report back when I try the first pint!
recipe here:
http://beersmithrecipes.com/viewrecipe/989712/nugget-nectar-clone

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I attempted your recipe BIAB style with minimal changes last night (had to boil pretty long to achieve desired OG, ended up with 1.074). Will let you guys know how it turns out if you're still interested in this old thread.

I picked up ingredients for another batch today. Only change I'm going to make is lessen the FWH Warrior, not sure how much yet though, I'm still playing with the numbers. I also realized that I got Munich 20L instead of 10L this time, hopefully it won't change the end product too much.

I rushed the fermentation, dry hopping, and bottling this time. Gave it 14 days to ferment, added dry hops, then bottled on day 18. The smell was definitely stronger than my last batch.

Another day or two and I'm going to throw a couple bottles into the fridge, that should about 22-23 days grain to glass.

So, I've gotten through drinking about half of this batch and am not impressed. Not sure if it's because of rushing things or the grain change but it's not as smooth or bright as the last batch. Definitely somewhat of a grainier finish, more bite in the finish as well, and the hop flavors aren't there. It also seems to be lacking the Vienna sweetness that IMO is part of what makes this beer what it is. Again, not sure if the darker Munich is he cause for this or the rushed fermentation and dry hopping.

In the end, I certainly wouldn't tinker with the simplistic grain bill and you need stick to a sound fermentation cycle.

I would like to brew this but only have 1318 London III.
would it be a big mistake to use this instead of an American ale yeast?
I just want to brew a good beer it doesn't have to be an exact clone.
I don't have access to the original to compare it anyway

Might finish a little higher but it will still be a good beer, imo.

bolus14 said:

Might finish a little higher but it will still be a good beer, imo.

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Thanks for your reply.
I forgot also have a pack of Nottingham but that might have the opposite effect.

Little revival to this thread since NN has been out for a couple months. I feel that this year's NN is a big disappointment, so much so that I'm thinking of making this clone again to fill what I was hoping for. This clone is almost spot on to the 2016 store version in my opinion.

This year's store bought lacked the mango/apricot taste I like and almost comes across dry instead of the sweeter finish I like about it.

I saw that this year Troegs will be releasing a version that they replace the Warrior and CTZ with Simcoe in their dry hops. I'm thinking of making this again and try the same thing with Simcoe cryo hops.