Yeast Washing Illustrated

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Reading the comments in another thread about yeast washing there were several brewers that are convinced that it is bad to use boilled (and then cooled) water for washing the yeast. Anyone else have an opinion on this? Has the thinking changed about the water we use?
 
Reading the comments in another thread about yeast washing there were several brewers that are convinced that it is bad to use boilled (and then cooled) water for washing the yeast. Anyone else have an opinion on this? Has the thinking changed about the water we use?

I believe they are saying there is too much chance for infection and don't think you should use any yeast washing at all. As far as washing goes, I use it to remove large amounts of grub. If you want to remove biological containments, acid washing is the way to go, but not something I will be investing in. I'll just buy a fresh vial of yeast if I have to many mutated cells or an infection is likely.
 
Yeast washing is completely fine as long as everything is sanitized. And you leave the beer/water mix that was in it in there to top off the jars. Just let the boiled water cool covered. Masybe even in the fridge till it gets down to a temp safe for the yeast.
 
I think it's worth reading the posts from EarlyAmateurZymurgist about why NOT to rinse yeast and store under boiled water. Even though he had rubbed some the wrong way, he seems to know his stuff.
 
So I was wondering that if you re-use yeast and find out later that the batch of beer that the yeast came with developed 'off-flavors' maybe due to ferm temps, will those 'off-flavors' follow the yeast when it gets re-used??
 
It is possible. If the yeast are stressed enough, they will not have the vitality for optimum performance in subsequent generations. But it depends on the strain and how much out of the optimum temp range they were fermenting in, other variables.
 
I think it's worth reading the posts from EarlyAmateurZymurgist about why NOT to rinse yeast and store under boiled water. Even though he had rubbed some the wrong way, he seems to know his stuff.

EAZ also thinks that using boiled water is a "poor brewery practice".... so I wouldn't listen to everything he says.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/saving-yeast-432059/index3.html

He does have a point about petites (mutants), but that's about it. He ignored the obvious data that says yeast stored in boiled water will last FAR longer than than yeast stored in the alcohol that it just created. If long term storage is your intent... then, short of freezing the yeasties, dropping them in some previously boiled water is your best bet.

In the last post of that thread, I clearly show Pros/Cons of rinsing yeast. And the cons are really not cons at all. The sanitation process should really be no different from the sanitation process of keeping your wort "pure".

Rinsing/Washing Yeast
===

PROS:
- Long-term yeast viability, particularly past one month or so.
- Ability to remove ALL prior beer flavors, trub, dead yeast from the prior recipe [particularly useful when making a new recipe].
- Better estimates as to yeast count for next pitch.

CONS:
- Virtually non-existant possibility of adding contamination (because you'll be sanitizing your autosiphon & sterilizing the water and jars).
- A matter of adding a couple extra minutes of actual work to your process, along with waiting time (hour for water to boil and cool, 30 min. for trub to settle, few hours to a day for yeast to settle; however, pitching yeast cake should preferably also wait few hours to a day for yeast to settle and pitch the top liquid with potentially respiratory deficiant mutants (i.e. - "petites")).
 
After a "batch" of rinsed yeast has been allowed to sit in the fridge for a few days, are people decanting off any of the brown layer (proteins and whatnot) on the top?

I wasn't planning on doing it due to risk of increased infection, but just figured I'd check and see.
 
I don't. It's either trub remnants or dead yeast cells, neither are going to hurt the living yeast that your saving. And like you said not worth the contamination risk, IMO.
 
If you are talking about the clear layer on top, yes I decant most of it off and leave a little so I can shake it with the yeast slurry so that I can pour it out of the container.
 
Just to be clear, I was only talking about the thin brown layer (which is above the clear layer which is above the yeast). Thanks for the responses.
 
Just to be clear, I was only talking about the thin brown layer (which is above the clear layer which is above the yeast). Thanks for the responses.

Are you saying you have a brown layer on top of the water? Might be worth taking a pic. If you have yeast, then clear liquid, then a brown layer you might want to toss the yeast. Others may know better then me, but if this is what you're saying i don't think thats normal.
 
Yeah there should be two layers - yeast and water. The jar should be completely full, so even if there is a layer you couldn't see it (but there shouldn't be). Sometimes there is a little trub that is below the yeast, but nothing above the yeast.

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Are you saying you have a brown layer on top of the water? Might be worth taking a pic. If you have yeast, then clear liquid, then a brown layer you might want to toss the yeast. Others may know better then me, but if this is what you're saying i don't think thats normal.

Sure, I'll show a pic. This effect is normal, but I'm hesitant to even call it a layer. It's a slight discoloration at the very very top of the jar. There's no harm in it - just some light proteins that didn't settle as fast as other trub from the initial harvest (which would have obviously been discarded).

Now that I've taken the picture, it's so small you can't even see it (please hold jokes).

hsjfb5.jpg
 
Looks good to me. Like you said I'm not seeing the thin layer you're talking about. But that looks like son fine yeast there

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Thanks to all who've posted to this topic it's now made me want to try re-using my yeast. I've never attempted collecting my yeast before but plan on giving it a try. I'm assuming that the majority of the yeast is collected after the primary? Is any of the yeast that settles from the secondary worth collecting or is it not worth it?
 
If you do primary/secondary, consider that harvesting from primary leaves some of the highest attenuating cells behind, and you keep the highest flocculating population. Which do you prefer?
 
If you do primary/secondary, consider that harvesting from primary leaves some of the highest attenuating cells behind, and you keep the highest flocculating population. Which do you prefer?


Think about harvesting from your starter - then you have all the flocculating and attenuating cells...
 
Made a rookie mistake. Didn't have time to do full wash, so just threw the slurry into two mason jars.

Left to settle over the weekend, decanted beer off, filled up with water and let it settle again for a few days.

Went back today to do actual wash + separate from trub, damn jars smelled sour and rancid.

Sanitation fail!

Really hoping that the infection wasn't present before I started my modified-lazy-man-wash.
 
Made a rookie mistake. Didn't have time to do full wash, so just threw the slurry into two mason jars.

Left to settle over the weekend, decanted beer off, filled up with water and let it settle again for a few days.

Went back today to do actual wash + separate from trub, damn jars smelled sour and rancid.

Sanitation fail!

Really hoping that the infection wasn't present before I started my modified-lazy-man-wash.
Bummer about the infection. My two cents: get your sanitation practices dialed in. Certainly. But then you may want to read the first post in each of these threads before you give washing another go:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/cold-hard-truth-about-rinsing-yeast-boiled-water-451925/
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/why-not-pitch-your-yeast-cake-166221/

I assume your slurry smelled fine when you decanted off the beer and didn't smell rancid until after a few days under water?
 
Used tap water (first fail)
Didn't starsan the lids (second fail)

Thanks will check articles, and yes you are correct that the smell only appeared after a few days under water.
 
Just a note, I tried using yeast that I washed 5 months ago, and it did not work. After 24 hours there was no sign of fermentation.
 
How does one go about harvesting yeast from a commercial bottled beer? I'm trying to clone a favorite but not sure how, or how long to step up to a proper amount for fermenting 5-6 gallons.
 
Here's what I've done:

*Chill the can or bottle at least overnight. This will help compact most of the the yeast at the bottom so you can keep it on the bottom as you pour out the beer.
*Make starter and cool (see table below for step sizes I used).
*Slowly pour the beer into a glass leaving some beer/yeast in the bottle/can.
*Swirl the can/bottle and pour the remaining liquid into your starter and aerate.
*Loosely cover and place in a warm location.
*Shake intermittently, I do not use a stir plate on my first two steps to keep growth rates controlled. *Depending on the age of the yeast, it could take anywhere from 1 to 4 days for you to see any signs of fermentation. If you don't see anything after 4 days, raise the temp to 70-75 degrees, shake hard, and let it sit 24 hours. At that point, the yeast usually kicks into action and you might see some yeast rafts in the middle of the wort and a tiny bit of krausen. If you still don't see anything, try proceeding to the next step anyway.
*Repeat steps making bigger and bigger starter to grow the yeast to a pitchable quantity.
*Let each step ferment for 2 days.
*If you have a big enough container, you can pour the current step into the next step (this is preferred).
*If you get to a size where you can't do that, chill your starter in the fridge for 2 days. Remove from fridge and decant the clear liquid on the top leaving a little behind. Swirl the container to get the yeast into suspension and all to warm up to the temp of the next step and then pitch that.

Here are the step sizes I used:
UAR9Suj.jpg
 
First time trying to save yeast... i didn't have any mason jars so i sanitized my Erlenmeyer flask, and got this... not sure what exactly I'm looking at... but it looks different than what I have seen everyone else have.

 
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