Brewtarget 2.0 Update

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Hey,

I did some research myself. I think it has to do with the fact that the extract displaces water. I think the system automatically adjusts for it. I found an old post regarding water displacement and the author was a Brewtarget guy.

Sorry, I tried to find the post but could not.
 
Thanks for the workaround. Good enough! Somehow, through trial and error, I got everything into my last batch, but it took a lot of attempts.
I like the new version. Keep up the good work!
 
I was having the same exact issue w/ the software on a couple partial mash batches. It makes sense that the extract displaces water. What is problematic is that I couldn't initially figure out how best to adjust the software to deal with it. Eventually I concluded the easiest thing to do would be just to subtract the displaced liquid amount from my sparge.

So after adding all my grains and extract and running the Mash Wizard I had...

Target Batch Size: 5.25g
Calculated Batch Size: 5.75g

And then in the mash tab...

Mash Conversion: 3.438g
Final Batch Sparge: 4.972g

Then in theory I could just sparge with 4.472g instead of 4.972g and I'd have my 5.25g at the end. I tested this in the software and the calculated batch size updates to 5.203 so there must be something else minor going on, but that seems close enough. Ideally the Mash Wizard would figure this out on its own in some future version, but this isn't too hard of a work around.
 
FYI - There doesn't seem to be any way within the GUI to import/restore an XML database from previous versions in Linux. I used this method to make it happen.

mikfire said:
Method 3
This is for the hard core. This will use some older code we developers used while working on all of this before we had the automatic import. This method isn't pretty, but it will work.

  1. Copy your XML files as shown in the previous two methods. This isn't required, but makes the command lines much shorter.
  2. Open a command window
  3. cd c:\program files\brewtarget-2.0.1\bin
  4. Run: brewtarget.exe --from-xml ..\data\database.xml
  5. Answer "yes" to include the new items
  6. Answer "yes" to save your changes
  7. Run: brewtarget.exe --from-xml ..\data\mashs.xml
  8. Answer "Restore"
  9. Answer "yes" to include the new items
  10. Answer "yes" to save your changes
  11. Run: brewtarget.exe --from-xml ..\data\recipes.xml
  12. Answer "Restore"
  13. Answer "yes" to include the new items
  14. Answer "yes" to save your changes
  15. Run brewtarget v2.0.1
  16. Answer "Restore" one more time

Mik
Click to expand...
 
I just updated from 1.2.4 to 2.0.1. I have both installed and have been exporting/importing recipes. I setup a new equipment profile (LOVE the new boil time in the recipe, was a pain maintaining so many copies just for boil time!). However, even though my equipment setup is identical in both versions, the calculated sizes are off initially, then I reset the equipment and mash, and calculated sizes are now "correct" but the strike temps are much higher - just leaves me wondering if this is going to work? Guess too high is not all bad as you can stir to bring the temp down before sealing it, but a 10 degree difference seems pretty extreme. I have been hitting very close for my mash temps, so I'm sure these temps will be too high. Any suggestions?

EDIT: I found if I reset the specific heat to 0, (instead of 0.359), the temps are closer (still not the same...) so this is the source of the difference.
EDIT: I found Tun Sp heat in the mash editor. Is is possible this is the problem (it is both in the equipment profile AND the mash editor)?
LAST EDIT: I think I have this figured out. All these recipes are ones that I exported/imported. If I reset the equipment to the new profile, remove all mash steps, reset the mash editor to "from equipment", it seems to work pretty good. I also really like the ability to play with the settings on brew day, dialing in the grain and tun temp (I pre-heat my tun, but it isn't always the same when it's time to add the water). Very nice feature and very nice to not have it tied to a specific equipment profile!!!

EDIT: I know I've asked this before, but is there any way to change the default steps? I have a pretty good system down now, and it would be nice to get the steps to match my setup, but I don't want to edit them every time. Thanks.
 
Error launching this on Mac 63 bit - version 2.0.0
Launch - brewtarget quit unexpectedly.
Re downloaded it. Tried running app from desktop and also user Application folder.
Version 1.2.4 runs just fine.

Some info that might be helpful from crash report

Process: launchd [95243]
Path: /Users/USER/*/brewtarget.app/Contents/MacOS/Brewtarget
OS Version: Mac OS X 10.7.3 (11D50)
Crashed Thread: Unknown
Exception Type: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (SIGSEGV)
Exception Codes: KERN_INVALID_ADDRESS at 0x00007fff5fc01028
Backtrace not available
Unknown thread crashed with X86 Thread State (64-bit):

And Console shows
8/28/13 1:25:48.520 PM com.apple.launchd.peruser.501: ([0x0-0x131f31e].brewtarget[95243]) Job appears to have crashed: Segmentation fault: 11
 
Wyrmwood said:
I just updated from 1.2.4 to 2.0.1. I have both installed and have been exporting/importing recipes. I setup a new equipment profile (LOVE the new boil time in the recipe, was a pain maintaining so many copies just for boil time!). However, even though my equipment setup is identical in both versions, the calculated sizes are off initially, then I reset the equipment and mash, and calculated sizes are now "correct" but the strike temps are much higher - just leaves me wondering if this is going to work? Guess too high is not all bad as you can stir to bring the temp down before sealing it, but a 10 degree difference seems pretty extreme. I have been hitting very close for my mash temps, so I'm sure these temps will be too high. Any suggestions?

EDIT: I found if I reset the specific heat to 0, (instead of 0.359), the temps are closer (still not the same...) so this is the source of the difference.
EDIT: I found Tun Sp heat in the mash editor. Is is possible this is the problem (it is both in the equipment profile AND the mash editor)?
LAST EDIT: I think I have this figured out. All these recipes are ones that I exported/imported. If I reset the equipment to the new profile, remove all mash steps, reset the mash editor to "from equipment", it seems to work pretty good. I also really like the ability to play with the settings on brew day, dialing in the grain and tun temp (I pre-heat my tun, but it isn't always the same when it's time to add the water). Very nice feature and very nice to not have it tied to a specific equipment profile!!!

EDIT: I know I've asked this before, but is there any way to change the default steps? I have a pretty good system down now, and it would be nice to get the steps to match my setup, but I don't want to edit them every time. Thanks.
Click to expand...

Are you using Windows? I am very close to actually making the upgrade process work. Upgrading to v2.0.2 should ask a one time question, and then we will do the right thing from there. Sorry for having to manually import all your recipes.

The way brewtarget is working under the covers leads to some confusion, and I think this is what is happening with your equipment profiles. The equipment profile on a recipe is actually different than the equipment profile in the tree. Editing one doesn't affect the other. To edit a profile that has been assigned to a recipe, you need to click the button on the upper right pane that has the profile's name on it.

As to your last question. If you are asking can you select "add grains to water" somewhere and have the intructions match it? Not yet. I've looked at doing that several times and it is a lot harder than you might think. Or I'm not clever enough to see the easy way of doing it. If you mean something else, I'm not sure what you are looking for.

Mik

PS - I liked the edit trail :)
 
digitalMessiah said:
Error launching this on Mac 63 bit - version 2.0.0
Launch - brewtarget quit unexpectedly.
Re downloaded it. Tried running app from desktop and also user Application folder.
Version 1.2.4 runs just fine.

Some info that might be helpful from crash report

Process: launchd [95243]
Path: /Users/USER/*/brewtarget.app/Contents/MacOS/Brewtarget
OS Version: Mac OS X 10.7.3 (11D50)
Crashed Thread: Unknown
Exception Type: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (SIGSEGV)
Exception Codes: KERN_INVALID_ADDRESS at 0x00007fff5fc01028
Backtrace not available
Unknown thread crashed with X86 Thread State (64-bit):

And Console shows
8/28/13 1:25:48.520 PM com.apple.launchd.peruser.501: ([0x0-0x131f31e].brewtarget[95243]) Job appears to have crashed: Segmentation fault: 11
Click to expand...

Can you try v2.0.1? There's been some wonkiness with the Mac builds and its the one platform I can't test or support. If v2.0.1 blows up on you, I will flag our Mac guy to see if he can help.

Thanks,
Mik
 
mikfire said:
Are you using Windows? I am very close to actually making the upgrade process work. Upgrading to v2.0.2 should ask a one time question, and then we will do the right thing from there. Sorry for having to manually import all your recipes.
Click to expand...
:drunk: Oh well - yeah, I don't really care too much about recipes, per se, but I do pretty much use brewtarget to keep track of my brews. In fact, it would be really nice to record all the brew day stuff ( volumes, calculated evaporation rates, gravity samples, calculated efficiencies, etc ) Giving me a printout isn't really keeping with the database concept :)
As to your last question. If you are asking can you select "add grains to water" somewhere and have the intructions match it? Not yet. I've looked at doing that several times and it is a lot harder than you might think. Or I'm not clever enough to see the easy way of doing it. If you mean something else, I'm not sure what you are looking for.

Mik

PS - I liked the edit trail :)
Click to expand...

yeah, that would be one thing (instead of add grain to tun), but reminders for like, take gravity sample, save x oz of gyle, etc would be nice for me. I assume these "steps" are going to be unique to each brewer, so having some control over what those steps are would be cool (like what's transfer to secondary for, really?)
 
Wyrmwood said:
:drunk: Oh well - yeah, I don't really care too much about recipes, per se, but I do pretty much use brewtarget to keep track of my brews. In fact, it would be really nice to record all the brew day stuff ( volumes, calculated evaporation rates, gravity samples, calculated efficiencies, etc ) Giving me a printout isn't really keeping with the database concept :)
Click to expand...

Sorry if I'm missing your point and you already know this, but you can right-click on the recipe in the main pane and select "brew it" from the menu to get an instance of a brew (day) where you can record initial/final gravities/volumes and other notes and have ABV etc calculated for you. :)
 
skunk27 said:
Sorry if I'm missing your point and you already know this, but you can right-click on the recipe in the main pane and select "brew it" from the menu to get an instance of a brew (day) where you can record initial/final gravities/volumes and other notes and have ABV etc calculated for you. :)
Click to expand...

Did not even know that was there! Thanks for the tip!
 
Wyrmwood said:
Is there any way to change the brew date? (So I can add notes from other files for historical brews?)
Click to expand...

Yes. In version 2 or later, select the brewnote from the tree and right click on it. There should be an option to change the date.
 
mikfire said:
Can you try v2.0.1? There's been some wonkiness with the Mac builds and its the one platform I can't test or support. If v2.0.1 blows up on you, I will flag our Mac guy to see if he can help.

Thanks,
Mik
Click to expand...

Boom - and there we go! Did not see 2.0.1 it on main download page but then found it on the list on launchpad.
Launched right away, imported my recipes. Now I just need to look into configuring brew in a bag for it.
 
I just downloaded 2.0.1 and am trying to merge my database from v2.0.0. I am selecting the default_db.sqlite file from the old version's data folder. When I do so, nothing happens, literally nothing. Am I selecting the correct file to merge or will I have to export each recipe individually as an .xml file?

Many thanks, and the software is great!
 
Ichthy said:
I just downloaded 2.0.1 and am trying to merge my database from v2.0.0. I am selecting the default_db.sqlite file from the old version's data folder. When I do so, nothing happens, literally nothing. Am I selecting the correct file to merge or will I have to export each recipe individually as an .xml file?

Many thanks, and the software is great!
Click to expand...

The default_db.sqlite is the version of the db that ships. You should point at the database.sqlite. If you are on *nix, you will find it in ~/.config/brewtarget. But if you were on *nix, we would have found it automatically.

If you are on Windows, you will need to go hunting for it. Vista and later introduced "virtual folders" that .. do weird and inconsistent things. Weird because nobody expects it, inconsistent because the application sees one thing and the file browser sees another. Look somewhere in C:\Users\[USERNAME]\AppData\Local\VirtualStore\Program Files (x86)\brewtarget\data.

One of the big fixes in v2.0.2 will be to fix this behavior on Windows.
 
mikfire said:
The default_db.sqlite is the version of the db that ships. You should point at the database.sqlite. If you are on *nix, you will find it in ~/.config/brewtarget. But if you were on *nix, we would have found it automatically.

If you are on Windows, you will need to go hunting for it. Vista and later introduced "virtual folders" that .. do weird and inconsistent things. Weird because nobody expects it, inconsistent because the application sees one thing and the file browser sees another. Look somewhere in C:\Users\[USERNAME]\AppData\Local\VirtualStore\Program Files (x86)\brewtarget\data.

One of the big fixes in v2.0.2 will be to fix this behavior on Windows.
Click to expand...

You were correct the database.sqlite file is in the location (on windows 7) but the merge operation still doesn't work. Nothing happens and there are no error messages. I'll just wait for 2.0.2 to come out, unless there is something I'm doing wrong. Thanks for your help!
 
Ichthy said:
You were correct the database.sqlite file is in the location (on windows 7) but the merge operation still doesn't work. Nothing happens and there are no error messages. I'll just wait for 2.0.2 to come out, unless there is something I'm doing wrong. Thanks for your help!
Click to expand...

Your only safe option is to make certain you have made a few backup copies before performing anything I recommend below. The database is just an sqlite file, so copying it around when brewtarget isn't running is fine.

I would configure brewtarget to look in a Dropboxed folder via Tools -> Options -> Directories, close brewtarget and then copy the old database into place. On the next start of brewtarget, you should get your old DB. The process will work for a local directory, or a network share or whatever.
 
I'm still having some trouble with water volumes on extract/PM batches using v2.0.1. If I set my equipment to calculate the pre-boil for me and have a finishing batch size of 5.25gal it tells me I need a pre-boil volume of 6.88gal after calculating my losses. For an extract batch I assume this means I should put 6.88gal in the kettle top-up water box.

However when I go to use this equipment in a recipe it's saying my calculated batch size is 4.009gal instead of 5.25gal. I am not sure why, but I did notice when I generate brew day instructions I get the following as the first step:

"You should now have -1.430 gal wort. Add 6.880 gal water to the kettle, bringing pre-boil volume to 5.450 gal."

Where is that -1.430 value coming from? I think that is likely the problem.
 
Nevermind, I think I figured out the issue. I had some of my grains set to be mashed instead of steeped by accident so I think it was an issue with absorption.
 
Brewtarget just lost my recipes, any ideas where i can find them? They weren`t in Brewtarget 2.0 folder...
 
Estbrew said:
Brewtarget just lost my recipes, any ideas where i can find them? They weren`t in Brewtarget 2.0 folder...
Click to expand...

Assuming you are running on Windows Vista or later, try somewhere in c:\users\[NAME]\AppData\Local\VirtualStore\Program Files(x86), where [NAME] is your user name on that machine.
 
I just found this thread and downloaded BrewTarget. I like the look and functionality of the program. Being a Mac user, it has been difficult to find much software for home brewing.

I was a pretty prolific brewer for five years, then I took a five year hiatus. Just started up again three weeks ago. I had been using qbrew, but after three OS upgrades, I was surprised to find that it still worked.

Brewtarget seems to be my upgrade and replacement from qbrew. Thanks for a great piece of software.

I am using BrewTarget 2.0.1

::EDIT:: I found and downloaded the Mac 64 bit 2.0.2 version. MUCH faster on my MacBook Pro. Very stable. I got 2.0.1 to crash when importing a XML from qbrew. I have not tried importing with 2.0.2.

2011 MBP, Intel Core i5, 4gb RAM, Mavericks 10.9.2
 
Heh. That crash was one of the fixes between v2.0.1 and v2.0.2. Check your imported recipes and make sure the styles are correct.

Thanks for the compliments.
 
Love, love, love, LOVE Brewtarget.

Love it even more that I can migrate recipes between my home (Linux) and work (Win7) computers. Someday I hope that Brewtarget can show up in a mobile OS platform, either iOS or Android.

Only thing that's still giving me little fits of grief is the strike temps. I've set up my profile and tweaked it to no end, but for some reason the temps it suggests seem way high (eg, for a 152F mash in with a 5gal igloo cooler it tells me to strike at 177F - way too hot). Once I figure that little part out, I'm going to be a happy, happy, happy camper.

Right now I'm just a happy-happy camper, and that's still pretty awesome.
 
I saw boyd's comment about a variable FG estimate based on mash temperature in another thread. I also saw Mik's offer of assistance on the mathematics of doing this. I've put a little thought into it and this is an example of how I could see this working. Keep in mind that some assumptions will need to be made, but since it's an estimate anyway I think as long as you keep things within reason then some fluctuation from the actual FG is expected (afterall, FG has A LOT more to do with the various aspects of the brewing process than simply the mash temp). Anyway, here's my rough idea:

Assumptions:
-Decide upon a Standard Single Infusion Mash Temp Range (SSIMTR)
---I will use the Standard Single Infusion Mash Temp Range of 148-158F in my examples below

-Decide how to deal with AA values above and below the SSIMTR
-This assumes that Brewtarget assigns upper/lower AA values to yeast strains already
---I will assign the end range of advertised AA above or below the range in my examples below (highest AA for low temp; lowest AA for high temp)


Basic Equations:
-- DegAboveMinMashRange / MashRangeDegrees = ScalingFactor
-- MaxAA - ((MaxAA - MinAA) * ScalingFactor) = FinalAA
-- OGPoints * (1 - FinalAA) = FGPoints


Example Yeast and Wort Characteristics:
Yeast X: 67-72% AA as advertised (british style low attenuator for instance)
Wort X OG: 1.062

Example calculations using mid-temp
Single Infusion Mash 150F
-- 2/10 = 0.2 factor
-- 72-((72-67)*0.2) = 71% AA
-- 62*(1-0.71)=17.98 (FG 1.01798)

Example calculations using mid-temp
Single Infusion Mash 155F
-- 7/10 = 0.7 factor
-- 72-((72-67)*0.7) = 68.5% AA
-- 62*(1-0.685)=19.53 (FG 1.01953)

Example calculations using under-temp
Single Infusion Mash 146F
-- -2/10 = -0.2 factor (Assume lowest factor of 0.0)
-- 72-((72-67)*0.0) = 72% AA
-- 62*(1-0.72)=17.36 (FG 1.01736)

Example calculations using above-temp
Single Infusion Mash 160F
-- 12/10 = 1.2 factor (Assume highest factor of 1.0)
-- 72-((72-67)*1.0) = 67% AA
-- 62*(1-0.67)=20.46 (FG 1.02046)
 
stpug said:
I saw boyd's comment about a variable FG estimate based on mash temperature in another thread. I also saw Mik's offer of assistance on the mathematics of doing this. I've put a little thought into it and this is an example of how I could see this working. Keep in mind that some assumptions will need to be made, but since it's an estimate anyway I think as long as you keep things within reason then some fluctuation from the actual FG is expected (afterall, FG has A LOT more to do with the various aspects of the brewing process than simply the mash temp). Anyway, here's my rough idea:

Assumptions:
-Decide upon a Standard Single Infusion Mash Temp Range (SSIMTR)
---I will use the Standard Single Infusion Mash Temp Range of 148-158F in my examples below

-Decide how to deal with AA values above and below the SSIMTR
-This assumes that Brewtarget assigns upper/lower AA values to yeast strains already
---I will assign the end range of advertised AA above or below the range in my examples below (highest AA for low temp; lowest AA for high temp)


Basic Equations:
-- DegAboveMinMashRange / MashRangeDegrees = ScalingFactor
-- MaxAA - ((MaxAA - MinAA) * ScalingFactor) = FinalAA
-- OGPoints * (1 - FinalAA) = FGPoints


Example Yeast and Wort Characteristics:
Yeast X: 67-72% AA as advertised (british style low attenuator for instance)
Wort X OG: 1.062

Example calculations using mid-temp
Single Infusion Mash 150F
-- 2/10 = 0.2 factor
-- 72-((72-67)*0.2) = 71% AA
-- 62*(1-0.71)=17.98 (FG 1.01798)

Example calculations using mid-temp
Single Infusion Mash 155F
-- 7/10 = 0.7 factor
-- 72-((72-67)*0.7) = 68.5% AA
-- 62*(1-0.685)=19.53 (FG 1.01953)

Example calculations using under-temp
Single Infusion Mash 146F
-- -2/10 = -0.2 factor (Assume lowest factor of 0.0)
-- 72-((72-67)*0.0) = 72% AA
-- 62*(1-0.72)=17.36 (FG 1.01736)

Example calculations using above-temp
Single Infusion Mash 160F
-- 12/10 = 1.2 factor (Assume highest factor of 1.0)
-- 72-((72-67)*1.0) = 67% AA
-- 62*(1-0.67)=20.46 (FG 1.02046)
Click to expand...

I will look this over.

I found some research braukaiser has done on this, and his data indicates that 66C (~151F) provides the highest potential attenuation. His research shows potential attenuation decreases about 4% for 1C (1.8F) over that. Interestingly enough, the research also indicates the attenuation decreases about 2% for every 1C under that. Something about the beta-amylase converting the sugars to maltose at lower mash temps.

The last statement lead to some heated arguments with my brewing brethren, so I'm trying to find any other research I can understand to see if there is more information than just what braukaiser has done.

If I can come up with something reasonable, I will put the tickets in and start working on this after I get my next round of enhancements tested and commited.

Mik
 
I hate laptops but am finding myself forced to use one. One thing stands out that was not an issue before. The bar with the Brewtarget logo and the donate bar both take up a lot of space. I have to scroll the few fermentables I have because of them.

Used the program for a few years and love it.
 
Hermit said:
I hate laptops but am finding myself forced to use one. One thing stands out that was not an issue before. The bar with the Brewtarget logo and the donate bar both take up a lot of space. I have to scroll the few fermentables I have because of them.

Used the program for a few years and love it.
Click to expand...

Which version?

I am randomly guessing that it is v1.2.4? We rebalanced everything around the v2.0 release and there isn't quite as much deadspace.

Mik
 
mikfire said:
Which version?

I am randomly guessing that it is v1.2.4? We rebalanced everything around the v2.0 release and there isn't quite as much deadspace.

Mik
Click to expand...
OK. I've switched to Debian Stable from Mandriva. I've considered going to the testing version since stable seems to be lagging in quite a few areas.
 
I'm also seeing some weirdness with boil SG. For any new recipe or older ones that I update, the boil SG is being calculated higher than the OG. Also the calculated batch size field is now returning .5 gallon lower than what it used to. Still digging in to see if I can figure out more details.

EDIT - I'm a moron, I added .5 gallon loss in my equipment profile at some point...
 
WI_Wino said:
I'm also seeing some weirdness with boil SG. For any new recipe or older ones that I update, the boil SG is being calculated higher than the OG. Also the calculated batch size field is now returning .5 gallon lower than what it used to. Still digging in to see if I can figure out more details.

EDIT - I'm a moron, I added .5 gallon loss in my equipment profile at some point...
Click to expand...

So should I ignore all of your post, or just the part about coming in 0.5 gallons lower than expected?

Mik
 
brewgar said:
With ver. 2.0,2, Boil SG shows 1.000 for all my recipes. How can I get this to show correctly?
Click to expand...

There is not a lot of information for me to work with here. The only way I can get that to happen is if I mark every grain as "steeped" instead of mashed and I mark everything as a "late addition".

Can you first verify that your mashed grains are marked as "mashed" and not late additions?

If that doesn't fix the problem, I would ask you to go to https://launchpad.net/brewtarget and open a new bug report. If you could export one of your recipes showing the bad behavior and attach it to the bug report, that will help me a lot.

mik
 
mikfire said:
So should I ignore all of your post, or just the part about coming in 0.5 gallons lower than expected?

Mik
Click to expand...

Well, I don't know about the OG vs. boil SF issue. Here's what I'm seeing. When the "target batch size" is .5 gallons larger than my "calculated batch size", the boil SG is higher than the OG. When I change the "target batch" to match the "calculated" then the OG raises to something greater than the boil SG (to a value which I think it is correct but am not 100% sure).

So I think what the system is doing is calculating "Boil SG" off of the "Target Boil Size" and the "OG" from the "Target Batch Size". But shouldn't the "OG" be calculated off of "end of boil volume"? Not "target batch size"?

What is confusing to me is I created a copy of my equipment profile, removed the .5 gallon kettle to fermenter loss, and adjusted the target batch size to 6 gallons.

Equipment profile 1:
Equipment1_zpse7675672.png


Equipment profile 2:
Equipment2_zpsbb8132ab.png


So I think this should be the same "end of boil volume" as my original equipment profile. Using the same recipe but the different equipment profile I am seeing differences:

Recipe using equipment profile with 5.5 gallon batch size:
Recipe1_zps774368ae.png


Recipe using equipment profile with 6 gallon batch size:
Recipe2_zpse3047461.png



So boil SG, IBUs, and IBU/GU are different, everything else is the same. Recipe XML files attached.

Windows 7, running BrewTarget 2.0.2

View attachment OB - 5-5 gallonxml.xml

View attachment OB - 6 gallon.xml
 

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