Sounds good, thanks. Maybe I won't need to do it every time once I get BIAB nailed down, but this weekend will be my first attempt.
BIAB Brewing (with pics)
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Sounds good, thanks. Maybe I won't need to do it every time once I get BIAB nailed down, but this weekend will be my first attempt.
MMJfan
Well-Known Member
Brewed my first BIAB last night. It was a Great Lakes Holy Moses clone. I kept it simple as was suggested and we'll see how it turns out.
I had about 6 gal. of strike water that I heated to 160. Added my bag of grains and mashed for an hour at about 152 which is what I was shooting for. I then did a mash out by turning my burner on and heating the wort to about 168. I then removed the bag of grains and that left me with about 4 gal. left for the boil. I boiled for 60 and then cooled and transferred to my fermenter at which time I added a gal. of water to get to 5 gal. in my fermenter. I then aerated it and pitched my yeast and viola, the airlock is bubbling away today!
Hopefully this turns out ok! It was quite enjoyable to do though!
I had about 6 gal. of strike water that I heated to 160. Added my bag of grains and mashed for an hour at about 152 which is what I was shooting for. I then did a mash out by turning my burner on and heating the wort to about 168. I then removed the bag of grains and that left me with about 4 gal. left for the boil. I boiled for 60 and then cooled and transferred to my fermenter at which time I added a gal. of water to get to 5 gal. in my fermenter. I then aerated it and pitched my yeast and viola, the airlock is bubbling away today!
Hopefully this turns out ok! It was quite enjoyable to do though!
Sounds good MMJfan! Good luck with the results of your first BIAB!
I did my first BIAB and first AG brew last weekend. As with any new method, I had a few mishaps/learning experiences, but overall it was very smooth! Now that I've done BIAB, I see how awesomely simple AG can be, and I don't plan on looking back!
A few things though. Firstly, I had some trouble with the mash volume. I calculated 3.5 gal to give me a good water-to-grist ratio for my grain bill. However, this didn't really cover all the grain, and I ended up dumping in 4 gal total. That put me at a water-to-grist ratio of about 2 qts/lb I believe, which still isn't too bad. I'm concerned for bigger grain bills though. I understand 1.25 qts/lb is the ideal water-to-grist ratio. With more grains I'm afraid I'll have to exceed that. The source of my problems is that the basket I use wasn't designed for my pot. There are a couple inches of difference in their diameter. Thus I've got a good deal of water outside the basket.
I've read a few posts on here where guys talk about mashing with the full pre-boil volume doing no-sparge BIAB. Wouldn't that potentially cause harsh flavors from too high mash pH?
Second, I had a hell of a time with my mash temps. A had a bit of trouble maintaining temps, which I solved by direct fire while stirring. No big deal. I had a real problem with reading temps though. The brand new Taylor 1470 digital thermometer I bought from Amazon turned out to be a pile of junk. I did the crushed ice in water test (AFTER the brew, of course) and it read 14 degrees higher than all my other thermometers. Returned that pile of garbage. I did manage to hit my OG though, I think because I added 1 lb of base malt to the recipe. Just wanna let everyone know to beware the Taylor 1470 thermometer! I got a bad one!
Other than that, everything was pretty smooth. Business as usual. I'm really looking forward to tasting my first AG brew!
I did my first BIAB and first AG brew last weekend. As with any new method, I had a few mishaps/learning experiences, but overall it was very smooth! Now that I've done BIAB, I see how awesomely simple AG can be, and I don't plan on looking back!
A few things though. Firstly, I had some trouble with the mash volume. I calculated 3.5 gal to give me a good water-to-grist ratio for my grain bill. However, this didn't really cover all the grain, and I ended up dumping in 4 gal total. That put me at a water-to-grist ratio of about 2 qts/lb I believe, which still isn't too bad. I'm concerned for bigger grain bills though. I understand 1.25 qts/lb is the ideal water-to-grist ratio. With more grains I'm afraid I'll have to exceed that. The source of my problems is that the basket I use wasn't designed for my pot. There are a couple inches of difference in their diameter. Thus I've got a good deal of water outside the basket.
I've read a few posts on here where guys talk about mashing with the full pre-boil volume doing no-sparge BIAB. Wouldn't that potentially cause harsh flavors from too high mash pH?
Second, I had a hell of a time with my mash temps. A had a bit of trouble maintaining temps, which I solved by direct fire while stirring. No big deal. I had a real problem with reading temps though. The brand new Taylor 1470 digital thermometer I bought from Amazon turned out to be a pile of junk. I did the crushed ice in water test (AFTER the brew, of course) and it read 14 degrees higher than all my other thermometers. Returned that pile of garbage. I did manage to hit my OG though, I think because I added 1 lb of base malt to the recipe. Just wanna let everyone know to beware the Taylor 1470 thermometer! I got a bad one!
Other than that, everything was pretty smooth. Business as usual. I'm really looking forward to tasting my first AG brew!
The full volume BIAB water/grist ratio in most cases will not cause Ph issues. A standard mash for me is @ 12# grain in 9 gal water (5 gallon batch size). That's a ratio of 3:1 and Ph is typically @ 5.4 after mashing in. As I've stated elsewhere, don't let the oft-repeated theory and advice be taken as gospel.
As to the basket size thing, your bag should be large enough for your kettle to fit inside of it. That way when the bag is inside the kettle it will be against the walls/bottom and ALL of the water will be able to touch all of the grain. If your basket is a limiting factor why not skip it and simply put the bag directly in the kettle. A wire cake cooling rack on the bottom before inserting the bag will keep it away from the direct heat.
The bag does act as a temperature barrier so I recommend draining a few quarts from the bottom of the kettle and pouring it back in the top (poor man's recirculation) to eliminate stratification and stabilize temp. This is especially important before doughing in.
Most importantly.....Keep on brewin!
MMJfan
Well-Known Member
I was able to stabalize my mash temps by wrapping my kettle in an old sleeping bag. This worked very well as the temp may have dropped one degree over the hour mash.
MMJfan
Well-Known Member
I watched an episode of Brew TV that really pushed me to give this a try. It adds about an hour to what I did for extract brewing but it was still far less involved than what AG brewing is and yet you still get the flexibility of AG brewing that you don't get so much with extract brewing.
I'll probably continue doing extract brewing along with BIAB going forward. Of course, we'll have to see how my first BIAB turns out...
stop thinking about water:grain ratio like you were doing a traditional mash in a mashtun. With BIAB if you have a pot big enough, use all the water upfront. I have yet to run into a PH problem doing this and the extra mass will make it easier to hold the temps.
Get it to the desired mash temp, wrap it in old sleeping bags, blankets or even go buy some reflectix (water heater wrap sold at home improvement stores). it makes a big difference. if you drop a couple degrees during the mash.. that's OK (1-3 degrees is fine)
remember, relax. don't worry. have a home brew. In the end you're only making beer.
I'm curious as to why the ratio doesn't matter with BIAB. Is it just not that important to begin with, or is there something different about this mash?
I will gladly forget about it to even further simplify my brewing process, I just can't help but question why.
I will gladly forget about it to even further simplify my brewing process, I just can't help but question why.
Found one explanation here although I don't put much credence in anything I read without having tried it for myself. All I could tell you is that it hasn't been a problem in the few years/several hundred gallons I have brewed thus far.
"1 - I can and have gone into lengthy discussions about L:G ratios. Mainly, people seem to be concerned about Beta Amalayse enzymes becoming denatured too quickly at such a high L:G ratio; and leaving you with an overly dextrinous wort. Then again, others say that a thin mash leads to increased fermentability, and therefore BIAB worts will be overly dry. In a way, they are both right. Both these things are a concern. BUT, in practise, they seem to balance themselves out; and worts well within the normal range are produced. Even at the L:G ratios involved with BIAB, still by far the biggest influence on wort fermentability is temperature. To be on the safe side I mash 0.5 to 1 degree C lower in temp than I normally would, and haven't had problems yet. "
reference: http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4650
"1 - I can and have gone into lengthy discussions about L:G ratios. Mainly, people seem to be concerned about Beta Amalayse enzymes becoming denatured too quickly at such a high L:G ratio; and leaving you with an overly dextrinous wort. Then again, others say that a thin mash leads to increased fermentability, and therefore BIAB worts will be overly dry. In a way, they are both right. Both these things are a concern. BUT, in practise, they seem to balance themselves out; and worts well within the normal range are produced. Even at the L:G ratios involved with BIAB, still by far the biggest influence on wort fermentability is temperature. To be on the safe side I mash 0.5 to 1 degree C lower in temp than I normally would, and haven't had problems yet. "
reference: http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4650
Don't be a bonehead like me the first time and preheat your water to the same temp as for a partial water mash. You'll be looking for cold water fast and have a long boil, pre-hops to look forward to if you do.
SpacemanSpiff
Well-Known Member
BrewHaas said:
I'll second this. I don't know if it's just my setup or what, but the first BIAB batch I did I followed Beersmith's recommended strike temp and came up way high. After several batches of dialing in now, it seems like I only lose about 3 degrees on dough in. Anyone else see something like this?
MMJfan
Well-Known Member
Mine dropped about 7-8 degrees. Strike temp was 160 and mash temp was 152 and that's how it worked out for me...
Larger volume of water = less temperature drop when grain added, I believe it's simple thermodynamics. 9 gallons water/12 # room temp grain drops the water temp @ 6 degrees for me. Always start low because you can direct fire and raise temp easily (which you can't do in a normal concerted cooler MLT) but getting the temp down is a PITA. After a few runs and some good record keeping you'll have it nailed. Brew more beer!
Yep, I find Beersmith to be way off for my 9 gallon kettle. If I mash at 152, it usually tells me 159-160 and unless I have more than 13lbs of grain, for 11-12 lbs, I usually only need to mash in at 156. If I go to 15lbs, I find Beersmith to be closer to where I need to be.
Agreed - I usually mash at around 157 for 10-12# grain bills to stabilize at around 152. Rather come in low & add heat then have to add volume w/ cold water. That's a p-in-the-a & screws the final volume, OG, etc
It was my understanding that temp adjusting refractometers were for temp correcting the device not the sample. Are there ones available that will work with a hot sample?
I will have to keep looking, all the ATC models I have seen have small ranges (topping out far below mash temps) for correction and are listed to correct the temp of the refractometer itself not the liquid to be tested. It's such a small amount I suppose the temp drops quick so it may be a nonissue.
MMJfan
Well-Known Member
I have another BIAB question. I generally use kits for brewing and I have been doing all extract kits up until my last brew which was my first BIAB. But that was a recipe I found on the interweb. I was wondering if I could just order the AG kits from places like NB and brew them using the BIAB method?
yep... BIAB is just another method of AG brewing. no different than a person that fly sparges, no different than a batch sparger.. Of course, as with ANY method of All Grain brewing, you will need to learn your setup and learn what YOU need to adjust for the process and recipe.
MMJfan
Well-Known Member
Very good. That's what I figured, but I just wanted to make sure. Thanks guys! 
weeple2000
Well-Known Member
Will mash efficiency improve if I use something longer to stir? Like maybe a 5 gallon paint bucket stick? I have been using a large spoon that is slotted. How much should I be stirring?
everyone has their opinions on stirring and all I can really tell you is to do what works best for you. For me, I stir when I dough in and I stir when raising the heat to mash out after a 90 minute mash. that's it. I get 75-80% efficiency doing it this way with my average sitting at 77%. I also don't adjust the heat during the mash (except when doing a decoction mash) any other time besides mash out. it's what works for ME.
Once you find what works for you, stick with it. Even if someone tells you that you're doing it wrong. if it makes great beer it can't be wrong.
I'd recommend a large paddle but depends on the size of the vessel. As long as you can stir well to break up clumps, evenly distribute the temp, etc it shouldn't matter. Personally, I stir every 20 mins & check the temp in case I have to add any heat but its not mandatory. Recommended though...
weeple2000
Well-Known Member
I just thought I should ask. I have done 2 batches of BIAB for my all grain attempts thus far. The first batch was a SMASH IPA, and I didn't record how many lbs of grain I milled, so I am not positive what my efficiency was. The second time I did the same as the first, full volume BIAB no sparge, but forgot to raise the temp to 170 for mash out. My efficiency using the calculator online the second time was 57%, which seems very low. I am just getting into this, and I think improvements will still be made to my process. I am using the mill at my LHBS and I suspect I may be getting lower efficiency because of that, but still, lower than 60% seems very low. I sqeezed the bag what I thought was a decent amount. I'm not sure if I could've gotten anything else out of it.
I mashed 16 lbs of grain, so I suspect that part of the efficiency lost may be due to the larger grain bill. I also read that mashing out at 170 doesn't effect efficiency that much. From another poster's advice in my personal thread, I am reading this thread. However, I am only on page 10 or so of the 90+ pages, so if there is anything important past that it will be a couple weeks before I get to it.
Also, the first time I did this I milled my grain twice. The second time (when I did 16 lbs) I only milled once. So it is possible a lower efficiency is due to this as well.
I mashed 16 lbs of grain, so I suspect that part of the efficiency lost may be due to the larger grain bill. I also read that mashing out at 170 doesn't effect efficiency that much. From another poster's advice in my personal thread, I am reading this thread. However, I am only on page 10 or so of the 90+ pages, so if there is anything important past that it will be a couple weeks before I get to it.
Also, the first time I did this I milled my grain twice. The second time (when I did 16 lbs) I only milled once. So it is possible a lower efficiency is due to this as well.
Probably a combination of only milling once & the larger grain bill is the culprit. With a double crush & grain bills around 11-12#, I've consistently gotten efficiencies in the 80's - some in the low '90's! However, when the grain bill gets higher, my efficiency dropped down into the high '60's-low '70's. For higher grain bills, you probably want to do a sparge on the side & add back to the kettle...
Fastmetal
Well-Known Member
MMJfan said:
Yup.
Chris7687
Well-Known Member
I just did a 15lb grain (doubled milled), mashed it the whole time at 154, no mash out, squeezed the grain good, and got a 76% effic. Definitely believe from my experience that the double mill is a MUST with BIAB. Haven't ever done mash out temp raises as I am afraid to burn the bag on the bottom. Also, never have done any sparging.
Riseabovebb
Well-Known Member
I forgot to mash-out one day and had horrible efficiency, ~56% if I remember off hand. I think the mash-out really helps, and I have not burned my bag yet.
When I mash-out, I kind of 'roll the bag'. By that I mean I grab two opposite sides of the bag and gently lift one side up while lower the otherside and then lift the other side up while lowering the other. It keeps the bag moving and helps stir up the grains a bit.
All that said, I double mill, stir the mash very well, mash-out and have never gotten 70% or higher BHE. I'm consistently in the mid to high 60s. I use bottled water, usually deer park or poland springs. Maybe the water chemistry/pH is holding my efficiency down.
How are you measuring the sample? A refractometer? Have you calibrated it lately? Maybe you're getting false readings. Also, are you measuring you pre-boil gravity accurately? Those two data points will affect your efficiency...
weeple2000
Well-Known Member
For those of you getting lower readings for efficiency, are you using the mill at your local store? Apparently there is a conspiracy that they set them for a poor crush.
I found a calculator that measures efficiency and used a sample that was adjusted for temperature from a hydrometer as the input along with the amount and type of grain I used.
Also, if I am brewing 5.5 gallons expecting to lose .5 to trub, do I enter my batch size as 5 or 5.5 into the calculator?
I found a calculator that measures efficiency and used a sample that was adjusted for temperature from a hydrometer as the input along with the amount and type of grain I used.
Also, if I am brewing 5.5 gallons expecting to lose .5 to trub, do I enter my batch size as 5 or 5.5 into the calculator?
I just completed my first BIAB using EdWorts Bee Cave porter recipe. I mashed just under 14lbs in 8.5 gallons of water in my 10 gallon pot - it was full!. I ended up with 7.5 gallons of wort after squeezing the piss out of the bag, BeerSmith says I hit 76% efficiency pre boil. I did pull the bag after an hour, raised the wort temp and then put the bag in for a 10 minute mashout @170. I used a round grill grate above the kettle to hold the bag while draining, and did I mention I squeezed?
I also learned a few lessons, first don't underestimate the weight of the bag, it's heavy, somewhat awkward and I really should have had another set of hands if only to slide the grate below the bag. Also hitting mash temp is tough,, different calculators gave me different starting temps. Before filling the bag I panicked about having enough space and pulled .5 gallons out. I ended up being low on temp and used that water (after heating in microwave) to help hit my mash temp. Next time I will probably hold back a gallon and have one gallong of boiling water and one of cold ready to adjust temp. I also learned that 14lbs is the absolute limit with my rig, I actually lost a little wort when I put my lid on since it sits about .25 inchesintonthe kettle!
All in all a good day, I have 5.5 gallons of 1.064 beer in the fermenter and used no extact for the first time ever when brewing.
I also learned a few lessons, first don't underestimate the weight of the bag, it's heavy, somewhat awkward and I really should have had another set of hands if only to slide the grate below the bag. Also hitting mash temp is tough,, different calculators gave me different starting temps. Before filling the bag I panicked about having enough space and pulled .5 gallons out. I ended up being low on temp and used that water (after heating in microwave) to help hit my mash temp. Next time I will probably hold back a gallon and have one gallong of boiling water and one of cold ready to adjust temp. I also learned that 14lbs is the absolute limit with my rig, I actually lost a little wort when I put my lid on since it sits about .25 inchesintonthe kettle!
All in all a good day, I have 5.5 gallons of 1.064 beer in the fermenter and used no extact for the first time ever when brewing.
I boought a white plastic food grade bucket from Walmart (5 gallon size are less than $3 in the paint department. I drilled about 20-30 holes in the bottom of this bucket. I lift the bag into the bucket allowing it to drain as I slide the grate onto the top of the kettle.
Uconnrh11
Member
msa8967 said:
Love this idea. Definitely going to use it.
You can also use icing buckets from your local bakery if you don't want to go to wally world. I also will open the top of the bag and stretch it around the opening of the bucket to do some sparging in case my volume is low.
jb1677 said:
Congrats on the brew, I'm sure it will be great. I've never mashed 14lbs in my 10g kettle but I've done 12lbs. I wouldn't suggest leaving out the gallon of water. Just get you water 5 to 6 degrees higher than your desired mash temps before dough in.
With my Irish red ales I usually want a mash temp of 155. So I heat my water to 161 degrees, stir in my grains and temps are spot on.
Just did a Black Am. IPA. 4.8 lbs grain for a 1.75 gallon planned post boil vol.
I use a 5 gallon Colman Cooler to mash.
Mashed for 45 min w/about 1.8 gallons of water with the 2 row, then added the dark grains in the last 15 minutes.
Drained the cooler and slipped the bag into a collendar and using 2 coffee cups squeezed every last drop out.
Then put the bag back in the cooler and slowly added 1.25 gallons of water at about 170*. Did the same squeezing as above.
Wound up w/about 2.75 gallons pre boil and 1.7 post boil.
Funny thing this time this calculator http://www.brewersfriend.com/brewhouse-efficiency/ gave me 91% efficiency . The last time I did same brew w/o the sparge I only got about 70% but I don't think I squeezed every last drop out that time.
Beer Smith estimated OG at 73 and I got 71 w/my refractometer. I'm a happy camper.
I use a 5 gallon Colman Cooler to mash.
Mashed for 45 min w/about 1.8 gallons of water with the 2 row, then added the dark grains in the last 15 minutes.
Drained the cooler and slipped the bag into a collendar and using 2 coffee cups squeezed every last drop out.
Then put the bag back in the cooler and slowly added 1.25 gallons of water at about 170*. Did the same squeezing as above.
Wound up w/about 2.75 gallons pre boil and 1.7 post boil.
Funny thing this time this calculator http://www.brewersfriend.com/brewhouse-efficiency/ gave me 91% efficiency . The last time I did same brew w/o the sparge I only got about 70% but I don't think I squeezed every last drop out that time.
Beer Smith estimated OG at 73 and I got 71 w/my refractometer. I'm a happy camper.
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