Caffeine in my beer: What is illegal to sell and what isn't?

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Jimmysbeer

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I realize that the FDA recently imposed a ban on beverages that contain alcohol and are infused with caffeine (4Loko, Moonshot). My question is what if the caffeine comes naturally from the manufacturing process and is below a certain amount (mg/12oz)?
I have already fermented homebrews with coffee and/or espresso beans and I'm sure there is some caffeine, but will this prevent me from selling this to local pubs or to a distributor?
 
Hope you're in for a long-ass night, bucko. I'll go ahead and just say what everyone else is going to. Go to probrewer.com It's illegal to sell homebrew, yada yada yada...
 
I'm kinda past that, and now am dealing with contract brewers. I have recipes for beers involving caffeinated ingredients, but it's not a deliberate addition to the product and is not marketed as "caffeine beer." Just hoping for an idea of what constitutes the FDA's problem drinks.....
 
We make beer in buckets with toilet parts and coolers, this might not be the best place for you.

ProBrewer.com

I'm sure you can google FDA laws and ATF laws as well, my GoogleFu is out of whack today.
 
MyNameIsPaul...that is very funny, and true. I am using all of that on Saturday w/o Caffeine.
 
Hold on there, while I have certainly used a bucket or two as a fermenter I have never, and I repeat NEVER, used a cooler...:p

Sorry Shooter! I don't mean to implicate the innocent!

I'm kind of tickled to see someone mention contract brewing a caffeinated beer, and mention MoonShot and 4Loko. Wasn't MoonShot a massive failure and isn't 4Loko marketed among the likes of Colt 45 and King Cobra? I shouldn't have sent him to probrewer.com, should have sent him to www.ThemRimsBeSpinninYo.com
 
Haven't the coffee-beer gods spoken already? It didn't work out for Drew Carey, it didn't work out for that chick in Beer Wars, Moonshot (WTF is that?)... But what the hell right, I like to drink coffee laced with booze and finish it off with a yard of beer - that's when the party starts!
 
Haven't the coffee-beer gods spoken already? It didn't work out for Drew Carey, it didn't work out for that chick in Beer Wars, Moonshot (WTF is that?)... But what the hell right, I like to drink coffee laced with booze and finish it off with a yard of beer - that's when the party starts!

Sorry Shooter! I don't mean to implicate the innocent!

I'm kind of tickled to see someone mention contract brewing a caffeinated beer, and mention MoonShot and 4Loko. Wasn't MoonShot a massive failure and isn't 4Loko marketed among the likes of Colt 45 and King Cobra? I shouldn't have sent him to probrewer.com, should have sent him to www.ThemRimsBeSpinninYo.com

Am I missing something here? The OP said nothing about adding caffeine to his brew, just using coffee.

And yes the coffee beer gods have spoken.... in favor of coffee beer. There are quite a few coffee beers out there...

To answer the OP's question, I'm no lawyer but I know a local brewery (Bridgeport) just released a coffee porter called "Cafe' Negro" that is infused with real coffee, and has caffeine in it. Are you sure the ban went through? In addition to Cafe Negro the corner store by my house is still selling 4loko, Joose, CORE, etc. All the topics I have read online about the issue talk about "going to ban" or "plan to ban" but I'm not sure for a fact it did go through.
 
Wow... the self righteousness level on this forum is certainly rising...

+1 to the post above mine.

I'm looking to contract brew also, should I go to spinmywheels.com also Mr. Witandwisdom?
 
I may be wrong, but I believe these bans occurred on state the state level, not federal. Check with your state board of alcohol control (or all states where you plan to market).
 
My understanding is that if caffeine is extracted from an ingredient as part of the brewing process you should be fine. I am thinking "Founder's breakfast stout" as an example...

The artificially caffeinated drinks are what was made illegal.

Grats on the step up to contract brewing.
 
Sorry Shooter! I don't mean to implicate the innocent!

I'm kind of tickled to see someone mention contract brewing a caffeinated beer, and mention MoonShot and 4Loko. Wasn't MoonShot a massive failure and isn't 4Loko marketed among the likes of Colt 45 and King Cobra? I shouldn't have sent him to probrewer.com, should have sent him to www.ThemRimsBeSpinninYo.com

the OP was just looking for more info on the new regs.

then you came in and JAG'd the place up.
 
Seriously Jimmy, this website is really geared towards the hobby side of things, it's really not a place for pros, though some have gone pro, but they usually stop hanging around here once they do, either because they are working their a$$e$ off trying to survive, or they hang out online with fellow professionals at the afore mentioned Probrewer.com.

Whenever someone posts on here professional related topics, all you get is a bunch of hobbyists pretty much speaking out of our own a$$es, on this stuff. Not lawyers, not pro brewers dealing with this stuff DAILY, not TTB experts on brewing legislation....Just hobbyists, like 'Paul said "with toilet parts and coolers." Not experts in the nuances of laws where commercial selling of beer/alcohol is concerned.

We may be great at helping you figure out good recipe, but getting it brewed and sold on a commercial scale, you really need to talk about it with experts.

I betcha that months before it became illegal, when there was a whiff about it, they started talking about it on probrewer, on a nuts an bolts level that relates to the professional level.

You best bet for real informantion, and not a lot of armchair speculation by a bunch or amateurs, is either Probrewer.com, someone from the TTB website or a Lawyer well versed on alcohol laws.

I know a hellova lot about brewing, I know a little bit about the laws just from attempting to read them, but I, and prolly noone on here, really knows enough to help you out, OR even point you, beyond what we did, to who to talk to.

Best of luck to you in all your endeavors.

:mug:
 
I am unfamiliar with any state that banned caffeinated alcoholic beverages. I believe some states banned specific drinks or beverages with a specific amount of caffeine and alcohol. The FDA, to my knowledge, did not set any standards but merely warned the companies producing the alcoholic energy drinks that if they did not change the products they would.

That said, you would need to look at the state limitations on caffeine in alcoholic beverages in the state(s) where your beer is produced and the state(s) where your beer is distributed to make sure you are compliant with their respective requirements. An attorney will be your best ally in that process.
 
I am unfamiliar with any state that banned caffeinated alcoholic beverages. I believe some states banned specific drinks or beverages with a specific amount of caffeine and alcohol. The FDA, to my knowledge, did not set any standards but merely warned the companies producing the alcoholic energy drinks that if they did not change the products they would.

That said, you would need to look at the state limitations on caffeine in alcoholic beverages in the state(s) where your beer is produced and the state(s) where your beer is distributed to make sure you are compliant with their respective requirements. An attorney will be your best ally in that process.

I am pretty sure Michigan banned 4loko or whatever. I think they banned several drinks due to the addition of caffeine. I don't have a copy of the law, but I know my BIL was disappointed although he also admitted it tasted like sht.

I think Revvy hit it on the head. We just don't really know, and there is a place with lots more info. Good luck.
 
4 loko and other drinks like that were pulled off the shelves and sent back to the distributors BUT, they have since come out with new versions that look the same and still taste like ass, but have omitted the caffeine in the new recipes.

-Matt
 
4 loko and other drinks like that were pulled off the shelves and sent back to the distributors BUT, they have since come out with new versions that look the same and still taste like ass, but have omitted the caffeine in the new recipes.

-Matt

They are just as good as they used to be if you add a '5 Hour Energy' to each can. ;)
 
Whoa, whoa, whoa.... I can use parts from my toilet? Where is that thread?

I don't recall a specific thread, but my braided line for my mash tun was a toilet supply line I think. The washing machine ones looked stainless but were actually some some sort of polymer. I do think it would be fun to have a toilet seat mash tun lid incorporated into my cooler though!
 
I don't recall a specific thread, but my braided line for my mash tun was a toilet supply line I think. The washing machine ones looked stainless but were actually some some sort of polymer. I do think it would be fun to have a toilet seat mash tun lid incorporated into my cooler though!

or a plunger mash paddle...
 
They are just as good as they used to be if you add a '5 Hour Energy' to each can. ;)

Actually, I think they'd be better, since 5-hour doesn't seem to give me the heart palps that those others do.

But I just usually drink beer and have 1/2 a 5-hour to keep me from falling asleep before the party gets going. I'm getting old...
 
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