Exploring "no chill" brewing

I have a question for all who use Winpaks. Have any of you had the handle broken off while carrying it full? It just seems like something that's not super tough and makes me worried carrying it around.

dreadnatty08 said:

I have a question for all who use Winpaks. Have any of you had the handle broken off while carrying it full? It just seems like something that's not super tough and makes me worried carrying it around.

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I have carried mine full, of boiling wort, about 8 times so far, no problems. Then again, I dont scare to easily.

The handle was designed with hauling liquid in mind. It won't break.

juvinious said:

The handle was designed with hauling liquid in mind. It won't break.

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Nuh uh! It is there for looks!

I'm cross posting this here. In doing no-chill it may be imnportant to do first wort hopping to get decent hop flavor. The trouble is that I'm an extract w/ grains guy at the moment. How do I first wort hop with my system to get decent hop flavor in the final brew. I posted a more thought out question in the extract forums here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f37/first-wort-hopping-extract-w-grains-kit-139397/#post1581590

Also, just did Number 3 last night, a light american pale ale. Had a 2-oz cascade flavor addition at flameout. I'm wondering if first wort hopping those 2 ounces somehow would have been better for the flavor.

juvinious said:

The handle was designed with hauling liquid in mind. It won't break.

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That's what I figured. I didn't think it'd be there if you couldn't carry it full. Thanks for the confidence boost

dreadnatty08 said:

That's what I figured. I didn't think it'd be there if you couldn't carry it full. Thanks for the confidence boost

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Ya, I work in a lab and we have these containers everywhere. Believe me they'll hold some weight. If they didn't we'd lose our feet in a triflic acid accident. It'd look like the final scene in Who Framed Roger Rabbit.

OK, took the plunge and two Winpaks are on the way. I have one more kit that is waiting to be brewed up and then I "think" I am going to try an all grain.
Question, what do you use for an airlock? Will a regular one fit in the lid?

You can order an extra cap, drill it and add a plastic grommet for an airlock;

or just use a bit of aluminum foil molded around the opening.

ibbones said:

OK, took the plunge and two Winpaks are on the way. I have one more kit that is waiting to be brewed up and then I "think" I am going to try an all grain.
Question, what do you use for an airlock? Will a regular one fit in the lid?

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You can buy a drilled #11.5 stopper and place the airlock in that :rockin:

I drilled my lid and am getting a .75"? tubing to use for a blow-off. Using something as small as a 3/8" tube through a stopped makes me a little nervous that it'd get clogged.

dreadnatty08 said:

I drilled my lid and am getting a .75"? tubing to use for a blow-off. Using something as small as a 3/8" tube through a stopped makes me a little nervous that it'd get clogged.

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Never had a problem with a 3/8" blow off in even my craziest Heffes. But, do what makes you comfortable.

Well.... just bottled a no chill batch of APA and brewed a European pale ale which will be cooling over night.

The APA was lovely but the Saazer pellets smelled like feet.

The Pol said:

Never had a problem with a 3/8" blow off in even my craziest Heffes. But, do what makes you comfortable.

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Just picked up a couple feet of 1"OD, .75" ID and it fits very snuggly inside the drilled hole of the lid. Can't wait to give it a try tonight, sanitizing right now and ready to pitch a happy starter of 3787.

Here's a picture of my blowoff setup. I like how snuggly everything is, but now I have concerns that the blowoff tube fits really tightly into my "catch" container and perhaps CO2 buildup is beyond its threshold? Anyway, I'm happy with no chilling so far, just adding some more pressure in certain areas. It's like learning to brew all over again

Is it safe to use a sanitized corny keg to no-chill?

Anyone out there who can answer my question?
can i use a corny keg for no-chill method?

Maybe not... when the wort shrinks and creates suction, it will pull air in through the poppets. You dont really want it sucking in air.


I may be leaving the NO CHILL camp... I just successfully tested my closed cooling system today. Used 4 gallons of water and 44 pounds of ice to cool 5.5 gallons of boiling water to pitching temp. in 20 minutes.

thanks for the quick reply, had not thought of that problem.
i can cool 5 gals in about 35 min here in CNY. our water is cold.
just wanted to be able to chill wort in the winter without running it
down my driveway and making an ice skating rink, along with freezing my a**
off in the below freezing temps. any ideas would be welcome!!

The Pol said:

Maybe not... when the wort shrinks and creates suction, it will pull air in through the poppets. You dont really want it sucking in air.


I may be leaving the NO CHILL camp... I just successfully tested my closed cooling system today. Used 4 gallons of water and 44 pounds of ice to cool 5.5 gallons of boiling water to pitching temp. in 20 minutes.

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Like you've always said, go with what works for you. You using a heckuva large ice maker or buying bags to get that much ice?

hal2814 said:

Like you've always said, go with what works for you. You using a heckuva large ice maker or buying bags to get that much ice?

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We have a dedicated ice maker that can produce almost 30 lbs daily.

It was fun to see it work tonight, I have always strived for a closed system

I am wondering if I should dare to use 5kg of 2L German Pilsener malt for my next batch (6 gal) or go with 3L Pale Ale malt....

So what do you say???

DerBraumeister said:

I am wondering if I should dare to use 5kg of 2L German Pilsener malt for my next batch (6 gal) or go with 3L Pale Ale malt....

So what do you say???

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I want to get some pictures to post before I put it in the no chill results thread, but I just did a batch going out of my way to get DMS and failed. I did an all-pislner-malt (don't remember the exact L but it was 5L or less) beer fermented with Wyeast 2112 (so I could ferment warm) and let it chill outside overnight (low was 55F). The kicker was my boil time: 45 minutes. I lost almost an entire gallon of total volume in that 45 minutes but I can detect no DMS. I forget the exact brand of malt but the LHBS guy said it was high quality. It had W's all over the bag. Wyermann maybe? I can't vouch for other brands but whatever that company is doing to their malt, it's enough to not worry about.

I'm doing my first batch of no-chill this weekend. I'll be doing it side by side with a chilled version to compare. I'll take to our next brewclub meeting and get the BJCP guys input on a blind taste-test and see what they come up with.

Doing a SMaSH with pale malt only (Pilsner was too expensive) to give the DMS the biggest chance of coming through. I'm betting it's all a big giant myth.

Will post results as soon as I get them

I tasted some early results from my Westmalle Extra clone which was 100% Castle Pils malt. I did a robust 90min boil and made a 2L RWS with 3787. Got damn near my TG at 1.006, 87% AA. Absolutely no off flavors that myself or anyone else tasted. I'm pretty pysched with the results and look forward to continuing this process.

Finished the no chill batch last saturday and the chilled version last night. Due to an equipment failure during the nochill version i had to dump all the trub from the chilled version into the fermentor just to try make it fair again.

Not gonna be a thorough test at all but it will be interesting to get a few blind taste test victims feedback.

Glad to see people are still converting/experimenting with this. Nice to see some favorable resutls.

CalmYourself said:

Doing a SMaSH with pale malt only (Pilsner was too expensive) to give the DMS the biggest chance of coming through. I'm betting it's all a big giant myth.

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I just brewed a German Pils as well; now in WinPak awaiting a Munich Dunkel brew tomorrow so I can ferment them together in the same fridge using the same temps for primary, secondary, fining, etc.

DMS is NOT a problem with PALE Malt. It can be with LAGER/PILSNER malts, however. The difference is the temperature they are kilned at. The reason pale malt is a darker lovibond than Pilsner is b/c it is kilned at a higher temperature. At that higher temperature the precursor of DMS, SMM (s-methymethionine which converts to DMS in the boil) is volatized away and the residual left is so low that any DMS produced in the boil is below the flavor threshold.

Lager/Pilsner malt at around 2 Lovibond is kilned at a low enough temp that the SMM remains...thus the DMS issue for beers using it.

One way to handle it is to just use pale malt (for your lagers instead of German, UK, or Belgian Pils/Lager malt). End of problem.

For those choosing to use Pilsner/Lager malt solutions you can use include:

- Boil over 90 minutes (the half-life of DMS in the boil is 35 minutes) so a longer boil reduces DMS, volatizing more of it.

- TRADITIONALISTS: Cool down the wort as quickly as possible because while in the whirlpool the temperature is high enough to continue to produce DMS, which without the boil and evaporation to volatize and remove it, it goes back into the wort.

- Add a piece of copper pipe to the boil kettle or two copper pennies (prior to Dec. 1982 - 95% copper then, and 5% zinc. After that essentially the inverse is used). Many sources believe the contact with coppper converts the sulfur to a benign compound. The zinc is good for yeast during fermentation as well.

- Ferment above 46*F

- Use yeasts that produce less DMS

- Avoid whole hops for dry-hopping. They can add up to 15 ppm by themselves. No problem with pellets, plugs or iso-acids in this regard.

-NO CHILL: Instead of going directly from kettle to WinPak (and thus potentially allowing DMS to continue to form in the wort over 176*F), simply cool the wort to 175*F (takes 2 minutes if that with a IC), whirlpool, let sit for 20 minutes and THEN transfer to Winpak eliminating most of the hot break while essentially eliminating the DMS production).

Pasteurization occurs at 140*F. One minute at 140* gives one PU (Pasteurization Unit). At 175*F you have approximately 5 PUs, which is the range commonly used by most craftbrewers. I.e., bacteria should not be a problem.

I PBW the WinPaks after use; rinse thoroughly, use StarSan (make sure pH is below 3 to be effective) and haven't had any problems so far. Last Dusseldorf Alt I made using 70% German Pils malt using the above approach. It sat in a WinPak for a month at room temperature before I could get to it. Absolutely no problems with bacteria. I do wort stability tests at transfer to Winpak and when pitching. No problems. Clear as a bell, smells great, tastes better.

Just one guys' thoughts and current approach. May buy an ice machine yet!

Back to Munich Dunkel set-up.

BTW, the sources for all of the above are Briggs, Boulton, Lewis, Fix, Noonan, Hornsey, Bamforth, Priest, Miller, Palmer, DeClerck, Goldammer, Hardwick, Korzonas, etc. I didn't make any of this up. These are the latest professional brewing tomes.

I am so intrigued by this. For some reason I have ignored this thread for the months I have been on HBT, but read the whole thing today.

I think this will really be the ticket for winter brewing - its not really so cold here in Va, but avoiding 45 minutes of messing about with cold water and hoses, even if its just in the 30's, seems good to me.

Also, since I'm pretty much just an APA/IPA brewer, I've been satisfied with dry yeast and like the simplicity. However I think that the convenience of RWS will embolden me to dabble in various liquid yeasts.

As I started reading, I was initially resistant to the differences in hop utilization compared to 'normal' chilling, so I was wondering if a hybrid approach, knocking the temp down to 160, would be worthwhile. But after reading all of this and other threads, considering the reduced sanitation and the extra hassle, I've tabled that objection.

I will order the 6.5 gal Winpack tonight - I plan to ferment directly in the NC container like Pol does (or did before he made his closed loop system).

I just have to say, thanks to all you intrepid and energetic brewers and forum contributors. Long live the internet!

I will still no chill. Actually adding to my fermentors and ONLY using HDPE for them. I have the ability to chill and no chill with my system now... and I like the fact that I have a choice.

No chill works, as I type I am drinking my fabulous no chill Oktoberfest.

I am still here, but yes I have added closed system cooling to my current rig

Whatever it takes to get the job done I'd say. I really enjoy the fact that I can no chill on those days that I'm pressed for time, otherwise I'll chill with my shirron. Having options is always a good thing and makes the whole brewing process that more enjoyable.

juvinious said:

Whatever it takes to get the job done I'd say. I really enjoy the fact that I can no chill on those days that I'm pressed for time, otherwise I'll chill with my shirron. Having options is always a good thing and makes the whole brewing process that more enjoyable.

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Yep, here's to using what works

While I love no-chill, and it works for 95% of my beers, I just can't get the same hop flavor and aroma in highly hopped beers unless I chill. For my IIPA, I used 3 gallons of ice in plastic containers to get the temp below 110F quickly, which seems to have preserved the hops I'm looking for.

I love no chill, just gone done pitching yeast in 3 different beers!

I just tasted my first no-chill brew. It was a Munich/SAAZ SMaSH. It was good and I did not die; imagine that!

My question is with the Pol's hop schedule (easy Pol, I am just asking a question!) Please explain "cube hopping". Do you put the hops in the cube, then put the hot wort in? That's it? Most of my recipes call for hops @ 20 min so this is HUGE for me.

Wait, I feel funny, maybe its botulism.... wait I just burped, ok better now.

McCuckerson said:

I just tasted my first no-chill brew. It was a Munich/SAAZ SMaSH. It was good and I did not die; imagine that!

My question is with the Pol's hop schedule (easy Pol, I am just asking a question!) Please explain "cube hopping". Do you put the hops in the cube, then put the hot wort in? That's it? Most of my recipes call for hops @ 20 min so this is HUGE for me.

Wait, I feel funny, maybe its botulism.... wait I just burped, ok better now.

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With Cube Hops, I transfer the wort to the cube, throw the hops in, and put the lid on. I guess it makes no difference whether you add wort to hops or hops to wort.

chefchris said:

With Cube Hops, I transfer the wort to the cube, throw the hops in, and put the lid on. I guess it makes no difference whether you add wort to hops or hops to wort.

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And that gives you the same flavor/aroma as hops at 20? Pol is watching, I can feel it.

McCuckerson said:

And that gives you the same flavor/aroma as hops at 20? Pol is watching, I can feel it.

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Pretty close. I usually resort to dry hopping for aroma and FWH for flavor bombs.

z987k said:

You also had me intrigued so I referenced Brew Science, here's what they have to say on cold break:


Even more, and possibly more interesting:


This one is a little bit more up to date than a 80's homebrew book, and to be honest all in all it sure doesn't give much of a reason to knock no-chill... and possibly even preferred, but to me that would have to be tested in my own beer(if I preferred it).

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Nice work doing that research z987k. That, along with the pictures of the beer and a few of the other posts definitely help assuage my concern for the no-chill option. I'm still a little leary of oxidation and other problems that may stem from having extra proteins and other things left in suspension but it sounds like this would probably work for a wide range of beers especially if you're not planning on aging them long-term.

Kegged my first no-chill/no-sparge brew yesterday. Gravity sample was great. Couldn't tell the difference in taste vs my chilled house ale since I adjusted the hop schedule.

Good job Sacc... nice to see you in this thread.